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Some managers actually like that strategy. Kevin Cash and Ned Yost used to do that kind of thing a lot. Although usually more for innings 2-7 than 3-9…

But the pitch count has also shown itself an excellent control in minimizing injuries. Especially important now because every pitcher throws 95 mph, something far, far fewer pitchers did in the Complete Game Era…

I thought Marte might be moved regardless, but maybe only for some exorbitant price. I wanted Paredes, but keeping Abreu looks like the smart move so far…

Who gives a s*** what fans said? Breslow didnt Sign him. Honestly i don’t question that. Suarez has had a good career, but he’s not a 3b anymore so unless they signed him over trading for Contreras, I get it…

WTF are you talking about? Early threw 96 pitches IN A GAME IN MARCH. It’s one thing to be upset about the loss, but Weissert got beat by a hitter who has quietly put together a 300 HR career. It happens. Also bullpens blew leads before analytics. The Sox really needed more offense today. Losing 2 out of 3 is rough, but it’s also 2 out of 3 road games to a playoff team from last year that does have good pitching.

I am not sure I’ve ever seen a player on a minor league contract get as much pub as Rodgers…

I am aware, and weirdly, Ive been invited to some of those meetings…

But at this point, don’t most teams have a game plan for how they’re going to pitch to each top hitter anyway?

WAR was a single piece of evidence supporting Judge earning the award based on his season. The original points were that Judge was the pre-determined winner before the season began. Even you said “Cal couldn’t win it last season, nobody else can. Eventually, Judge will fall off, but they'll just keep giving it to him for now.” Thats the type of point I was posting about. The guy had a monster season, supportable as better than Raleigh, and people still say “they just handed him the MVP.” That’s ridiculous. I wasn’t asking who you thought deserved the award, which is a different question. And one that 13 BBWAA writers agreed with you on…

I actually doubt it is. But I do believe if Raleigh played for the Yankees, he probably hits 70 HRs in that cereal bowl, and that changes everything…

That’s fair. But it’s also a tone shift, by which I mean you moved the goal posts. I mean, I’d probably have voted for Raleigh, too. But this was never about who we would have voted for. I was countering the point someone made that Raleigh clearly deserved MVP and Judge only won due to Yankee bias. I disagree and can clearly see Judge winning based solely on the monster season he had. No one ever said WAR was the end-all-be-all, but it stands head and shoulders over that boring old criticism of WAR accompanied by nothing. No stat is the end-all-be-all. But WAR is one of the better ones.…

WAR is based on the numbers of real accomplishments. You can question its accuracy and validity, which is fair criticism, but its foundation comes from games played in the field. Saying “if Raleigh had that season as a Yankee, he would have won MVP” is 100% pure conjecture. It’s not even an opinion; it’s an unverifiable theory…

And in some years, maybe catchers got too much credit. Pudge Rodriguez over Pedro. Pudge had a great year with a Gold Glove and a .931 OPS. But interestingly, in the NL that year, Mike Leiberthal won a Gold Glove and had a .931 OPS, and didn’t get a single MVP vote. Of course what’s being overlooked is Raleigh wasn’t a catcher; he was a C/DH starting 38 games - nearly a quarter of the season - in which he didn’t take the field at all. He was actually not a great DH, however, as his OPS was .788 in those games, although he did hit 11 of his 60 HRs. (His 49 home runs as a catcher does still stand as a season record for the position.) I think there are pro-Raleigh arguments over Judge. But what I contest is that Raleigh was the clear obvious choice and Judge only won because he was a Yankee. I even contest it was a tie, but Judge was chosen because he was a Yankee with his uniform being the tiebreaker. My point is Judge’s numbers alone do make a solid argument for his choice. By the way, you’re continually making arguments about how catchers with lesser number DO get recognized for MVP awards and that actually takes away from your point about Raleigh being more deserving based on his position. If you’re going to make the pro-catcher argument, perhaps it rests on the defensive metrics used for WAR cannot totally encompass the contributions of a catcher and therefore that position can get shortchanged. I could support that. The only real counter is perhaps they also mask more deficiencies, but then even I’m getting more hypothetical than I prefer…

I hear you. I have an elliptical in the spare bedroom/home office, and I try to get in there every few days and get my laundry off it….

That depends on the player, doesn’t it. Not to mention there are so many other fitness and conditioning programs nowadays. And there is the argument that, as a shortstop, bulk can hinder him defensively. When I hear a coach or manager questioning work ethic, my first thought is LaRussa talking about JD Drew playing with a perceived lack of passion and not playing when injured. And while those may or may not be flaws, they aren’t the same as work eithic.

There are plenty of arguments for that. Also maybe MLB should go back and adjust his batting average for all the years he played where sac flies DID count as at bats. But again - what’s the clear basis for the conclusion that Raleigh should have won the award and Judge only got it because he was a Yankee? Are you really saying Judge’s absolute monster season was unworthy and definitively inferior to Raleigh’s? 5Gold likes to highlight that Raleigh was a catcher and is therefore inherently more valuable. I can agree there is something to it, although it’s not really quantifiable and doesn’t definitively put Raleigh ahead of Judge. Also it makes me wonder if that means 5Gold is willing to forcibly take Pedroia’s 2008 MVP and hand it over to Joe Mauer…

And that is a fair point, assuming he is a good catcher. And Raleigh is good. Not elite but very good. And Raleigh’s season was historic, and in many other seasons, he is a clear MVP. The problem is, Judge lead all of MLB in BA, OBP, SLG, OPS (obviously), and OPS+ plus a few other advanced metrics. Plus he lead the AL in runs, total bases and walks. Not to mention, he’s a very good defensive outfielder himself. While no one has made one yet, at least not one I buy, there might be an argument for Raleigh being the clear choice over Judge. Most of the ones posted here (not yours) fall somewhere between hypothetical conjecture and conspiracy theories. But there are clear arguments for Judge over Raleigh, and ones even I can spot. I’d have understood if Raleigh had won. I’d have preferred it. But it’s painfully obvious to me that a Judge win here was perfectly justified based on his season alone and not his uniform…

Seriously? So Judge should have the wild card finish held against him despite his team winning more games? You do realize this justification can be paraphrased to “it should go to the player who was more involved in the worse team taking advantage of the weaker division”. When phrased that way, is Raleigh such the clear choice?

As opposed to the HR Award? If you’re going to challenge WAR as a reasonable basis for an MVP award, propose a alternative method as opposed to just trying to rationalize unfavorable past results as nothing more than conspiracy theories…

Your answer is just a hypothetical. Whether or not you like WAR, it is real data. If it was all about pinstripes, I suspect Derek Jeter might have an award or two among his 8 top ten MVP finishes. But the real issue last year was Raleigh had a clear career year and one of, if not the best offensive seasons in history for a catcher, while Judge gave us more of the same. The problem for Raleigh is, while it was still just another Typical Judge Season, Typical Judge is rapidly establishing himself as being among the best of all time regardless of position. I wouldn’t have been surprised if Raleigh won, but a Judge win was perfectly justifiable based on numbers, and not laundry…

That work ethic commentary is so vague and probably misused. I’ve seen it used to describe oft-injured players before and it basically makes them sound like players who don’t care…

His wrist is completely separate from his body?!? That’s a much bigger problem!

Did Cal really deserve MVP last year? Why? Judge has 9.8 bWAR. Raleigh had 7.4 Judge had 10.1 fWAR, Raleigh had 9.1. Judge is a future HOF Yankee still posting insane numbers. I hate that. But that doesn’t mean he isn’t the best hitter baseball has seen this since Pujols…

Well, anybody willing and (more importantly) able to pay more than $360mill over 9 years…

I’m hoping his surgery last year keeps him healthy for once…