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I actually doubt it is. But I do believe if Raleigh played for the Yankees, he probably hits 70 HRs in that cereal bowl, and that changes everything…

That’s fair. But it’s also a tone shift, by which I mean you moved the goal posts. I mean, I’d probably have voted for Raleigh, too. But this was never about who we would have voted for. I was countering the point someone made that Raleigh clearly deserved MVP and Judge only won due to Yankee bias. I disagree and can clearly see Judge winning based solely on the monster season he had. No one ever said WAR was the end-all-be-all, but it stands head and shoulders over that boring old criticism of WAR accompanied by nothing. No stat is the end-all-be-all. But WAR is one of the better ones.…

WAR is based on the numbers of real accomplishments. You can question its accuracy and validity, which is fair criticism, but its foundation comes from games played in the field. Saying “if Raleigh had that season as a Yankee, he would have won MVP” is 100% pure conjecture. It’s not even an opinion; it’s an unverifiable theory…

And in some years, maybe catchers got too much credit. Pudge Rodriguez over Pedro. Pudge had a great year with a Gold Glove and a .931 OPS. But interestingly, in the NL that year, Mike Leiberthal won a Gold Glove and had a .931 OPS, and didn’t get a single MVP vote. Of course what’s being overlooked is Raleigh wasn’t a catcher; he was a C/DH starting 38 games - nearly a quarter of the season - in which he didn’t take the field at all. He was actually not a great DH, however, as his OPS was .788 in those games, although he did hit 11 of his 60 HRs. (His 49 home runs as a catcher does still stand as a season record for the position.) I think there are pro-Raleigh arguments over Judge. But what I contest is that Raleigh was the clear obvious choice and Judge only won because he was a Yankee. I even contest it was a tie, but Judge was chosen because he was a Yankee with his uniform being the tiebreaker. My point is Judge’s numbers alone do make a solid argument for his choice. By the way, you’re continually making arguments about how catchers with lesser number DO get recognized for MVP awards and that actually takes away from your point about Raleigh being more deserving based on his position. If you’re going to make the pro-catcher argument, perhaps it rests on the defensive metrics used for WAR cannot totally encompass the contributions of a catcher and therefore that position can get shortchanged. I could support that. The only real counter is perhaps they also mask more deficiencies, but then even I’m getting more hypothetical than I prefer…

I hear you. I have an elliptical in the spare bedroom/home office, and I try to get in there every few days and get my laundry off it….

That depends on the player, doesn’t it. Not to mention there are so many other fitness and conditioning programs nowadays. And there is the argument that, as a shortstop, bulk can hinder him defensively. When I hear a coach or manager questioning work ethic, my first thought is LaRussa talking about JD Drew playing with a perceived lack of passion and not playing when injured. And while those may or may not be flaws, they aren’t the same as work eithic.

There are plenty of arguments for that. Also maybe MLB should go back and adjust his batting average for all the years he played where sac flies DID count as at bats. But again - what’s the clear basis for the conclusion that Raleigh should have won the award and Judge only got it because he was a Yankee? Are you really saying Judge’s absolute monster season was unworthy and definitively inferior to Raleigh’s? 5Gold likes to highlight that Raleigh was a catcher and is therefore inherently more valuable. I can agree there is something to it, although it’s not really quantifiable and doesn’t definitively put Raleigh ahead of Judge. Also it makes me wonder if that means 5Gold is willing to forcibly take Pedroia’s 2008 MVP and hand it over to Joe Mauer…

And that is a fair point, assuming he is a good catcher. And Raleigh is good. Not elite but very good. And Raleigh’s season was historic, and in many other seasons, he is a clear MVP. The problem is, Judge lead all of MLB in BA, OBP, SLG, OPS (obviously), and OPS+ plus a few other advanced metrics. Plus he lead the AL in runs, total bases and walks. Not to mention, he’s a very good defensive outfielder himself. While no one has made one yet, at least not one I buy, there might be an argument for Raleigh being the clear choice over Judge. Most of the ones posted here (not yours) fall somewhere between hypothetical conjecture and conspiracy theories. But there are clear arguments for Judge over Raleigh, and ones even I can spot. I’d have understood if Raleigh had won. I’d have preferred it. But it’s painfully obvious to me that a Judge win here was perfectly justified based on his season alone and not his uniform…

Seriously? So Judge should have the wild card finish held against him despite his team winning more games? You do realize this justification can be paraphrased to “it should go to the player who was more involved in the worse team taking advantage of the weaker division”. When phrased that way, is Raleigh such the clear choice?

As opposed to the HR Award? If you’re going to challenge WAR as a reasonable basis for an MVP award, propose a alternative method as opposed to just trying to rationalize unfavorable past results as nothing more than conspiracy theories…

Your answer is just a hypothetical. Whether or not you like WAR, it is real data. If it was all about pinstripes, I suspect Derek Jeter might have an award or two among his 8 top ten MVP finishes. But the real issue last year was Raleigh had a clear career year and one of, if not the best offensive seasons in history for a catcher, while Judge gave us more of the same. The problem for Raleigh is, while it was still just another Typical Judge Season, Typical Judge is rapidly establishing himself as being among the best of all time regardless of position. I wouldn’t have been surprised if Raleigh won, but a Judge win was perfectly justifiable based on numbers, and not laundry…

That work ethic commentary is so vague and probably misused. I’ve seen it used to describe oft-injured players before and it basically makes them sound like players who don’t care…

His wrist is completely separate from his body?!? That’s a much bigger problem!

Did Cal really deserve MVP last year? Why? Judge has 9.8 bWAR. Raleigh had 7.4 Judge had 10.1 fWAR, Raleigh had 9.1. Judge is a future HOF Yankee still posting insane numbers. I hate that. But that doesn’t mean he isn’t the best hitter baseball has seen this since Pujols…

Well, anybody willing and (more importantly) able to pay more than $360mill over 9 years…

I’m hoping his surgery last year keeps him healthy for once…

Really all he said was Mayer would platoon. That he mentioned both IKF and Monasterio added nothing since no one expected Wong or Yoshida. https://heavy.com/sports/mlb/boston-red-sox/marcelo-mayer-opening-day-plans/ Admittedly not my favorite source, since heavy.com cites CBSSports, who in turn cites Rotoworld…

The AI-suggested batting order vs Abbott based on analytics Durbin 2b Story SS Contreras 1b IKF 3b (Seriously, and with supporting albeit questionable logic) Anthony LF Abreu RF Duran DH Rafaela CF Narvaez C For those of you that think analytics has changed EVERYTHING…

And even after they kept Monasterio, IKF still gets the nod…

They are cooler with men on base…

Another way to look at it is - batting orders never really meant anything but this was proven through analyzing them. Of course, the original statement is actually just incorrect. It’s not that batting orders were ever meaningless; they were just always misunderstood and not constructed optimally. The previous notion of using one of your better hitters in the 3-spot - the batting order position most likely to come up with 2 outs and no one on base - is a good example of questionable strategy…

Apparently it’s: Anthony LF Story SS Duran DH Contreras 1b Durbin 3b Abreu RF Kiner-Falefa 2b Narvaez C Rafaela CF

Campbell was the pre-2025 BA #4 prospect in MLB. Baseball Prospectus had him #3 overall. Again, in all of MLB, not just on the Sox…

Teams quite often don’t. Probably feel overall that the risk of moderately overpaying a few who don’t live up to the hype is far less costly than waiting for players to establish themselves and realize their worth. The Sox are paying Anthony and Campbell a total of $180mill. Anthony alone might be worth a contract more than double that total in a couple years…

Honestly not as great as you think. There are plenty of top 5 prospects who simply never panned out. A few names that leap to mind include Corey Patterson, Jesus Montero, Ruben Mateo, Lastings Milledge, Bobby Seay, Brandon Wood, etc.