moonslav59

Please follow along. We were asked what players that were traded would start for the Sox. I listed Moncada, maybe Dubon at 2B or Moncada at DH. I also mentioned Margot might DH/4th OF for us. With ERod hurt and the Sale trade being theoretically revoked, maybe Kopech would win a slot. I never said I'd be happy with these guys starting in 2018 for the Sox.

If you think 45 errors at 3B is minor, fine. I don't. It may not be "major" to some. That's fine, too It's not worth arguing over.

Better than HRam at DH and maybe better than Holt at 2B for 2018.

So, theoretical international signings missed are worth more than actual ones that were rated so highly we got Sale and Pom for them.

The one year penalty did not take away from the excellent international players Ben left DD- most of whom were traded away for Sale and Pom. Ben did NOT leave DD with a bad farm. Any spin that implies otherwise is just that: spin.

My bad. I keep confusing these two, because at one time I wanted both. I meant Salazar with his injury history. Sorry. Yes, Carrasco would not be offered for JBJ, Swihart and Travis.

I think it is more than a minor issue. It's just not as major as our lack of a clean-up hitter, 1Bman and injuries (surgery) to Pedey & HRam. SP'ing and RP'ing may be a higher need than fixing 3B defense. It's close. Devers was on pace for over 40 errors over 150 games. (Agreed: maybe "serious" was to harsh a word.)

Maybe, but Carrasco has injury history, the Guardians have an OF issue and a rare surplus of SP'ers.

What will happen is there will be a few of the young stars who will stay (although ALL OF THEM STAYING is an option the Red Sox have that other teams don't) - and other guys who leave or get dealt. There will be other good players staffed via trade, maybe a big FA. You can't make big trades unless you have players and prospects to trade. You can't keep all the young stars and make big FA signings, unless we spend $250M+ on our payroll. Yes, that could happen, but why didn't we sign Scherzer, if the sky is the limit? I'll beliueve it when I see it. Until then, I'm assuming we stay near the luxury tax budget limit with occasional spikes here and there along with reset years here and there.

...or maybe Price and our next big splash signing?

That's "the" reason? Really? He did draft Kopech which was a big part of getting us Sale. Maddox and Chavis could help, too. I wouldn't crap on the international signings. Lin Guerra (used to get Kimbrel) Both Basabe's (used to get players) Rijo Moncada (used to get Sale) Devers (one of the few bright spots beyond the window) J Diaz Espinoza (used to get Pom) The farm DD inherited, in which some were Theo gets, was light years better thsan we have now. Trying to spin this into being Ben's fault is fake news. They weren't great drafts, for sure.

Devers is not really a step down from Pablito, but he is from Lin and the league norm. With Bogey being average at best and Pedey out, our IF defense could be very shaky to start the year. It's not a top priority, but it is still a concern.

Agreed, but if there's a way to fix other issues, we might as well consider them.

Who is pretending that? DD built this team for a cycle not for an extended balance run. It's obvious we will be much better in the next two years than year 4 to 5 or maybe even 3-4. We didn't buy our way to contention in 2014 and 2015, but that doesn't mean we're "mid tier". We were a top spending team as will be in 2020 and 2021. That isn't always enough to win as 2012, 2014 and 2015 showed us. It is not a freak occurrence that almost all our major players reach free agency in a 2-3 year window. It was planned. Unless we spend $250M, we are not keeping everybody or replacing some IN KIND through free agency. Unless you think we spend $250M and/or Travis, Ockimey and Chavis will come to the rescue, we're going to hit a cliff, or at least a very steep hill. It's not an automatic slam dunk, and I guess you guys can cling to that sliver of hope that lower ranked prospects than the ones we traded away are going to come through for us, and/or we'll never swing and miss on bi FA signings again. This is not meant to sound like "gloom and doom". I doubt we finish in last place in 2020 or 2021, but it will be close to impossible to be a top contender without spending $250M (plus taxes) and having some prospects come through in big ways.

LOL. Just saying, there's no gloom or misery in my thoughts about the Sox. I'm fine with going all out to win, and just because I'm not in denial about our future, it doesn't mean I'm miserable. I'm actually an optimist at heart, and I'm hoping my view on what is realistic is wrong. I liked our recent draft and international signings. I'm not sure if any can help in 2020 or 2021, but they look to be helpful after 2021 or in trade.

I think we can overcome the "growing pains" of Devers on defense next year, if we acquire a couple of big bats: JD or Stanton plus Santana or Moustakas, but if not his growing curve could seriously damage our ring hopes. (I'm not for sending Devers to AAA. I'd DH him while he works out at 3B in practice everyday.)

I'll puke, if that happens. Literally vomit.

That site also had us signing Morrison, which forces HRam to DH.

I loved Moncada, AND I really loved the Sale trade. By mentioning who might be starting for the Sox next year as a reply to Nick's call out, I in no way was implying I wanted Moncada or Kopech back for Sale.

Again, but then we don't have Sale and we don't win last year. We didn't win last year or this year. We also don't have Kimbrel. We also don't have Pom. Again, I've never been against trading prospects. I'm just not for trading 4 for a RP'er making near FA market money at the time of the trade. I loved the Sale trade, and I wish we had kept the prospects we traded for Kimbrel & Pom to get Quintana- someone under control for 3 more years. (BTW, Pom and Kimbrel did not do all that great in 2016's division winning season, especially Pom.) What would our 25 man roster look like? Sale, Kimbrel, Pom combined cost us $40M. I suppose we could buy couple of good players with that money. c no change 1B Shaw 2B Moncada SS Xander 3B Devers LF Beni CF Bradley Jr RF Betts SP Price SP Porcello SP E Rod SP Wright SP Johnson I suppose if we were willing not to win the Division last two years, then 2018 could have been better. It's Henry's fault for hiring DD. Kimmi may have the right idea. Stand pat and let contracts for Hanley, Sadoval and Porcello expire. Use that money to extend Betts and Sale. So, Kimbrel, Pom and Bogey go? Where are we then? All are up before or at the same time those two come up for re-signing. I'm not going to play the hindsight game and bash DD for the Shaw or Sale trades. I liked them both. I did not like the Pom & Kimbrel deals, but I knew both would help us now and for some of the "window". Nobody is disputing the fact that DD made us better than we would have been "NOW". The dispute is "at what cost" to the future.

He may miss all of 2018 and return as a DH. He may fight his way back, and I think he will. Either way, Moncada would start for us next year at 2B and/or DH and be our DH in 2019 and beyond. Would you rather have Holt?

Margot was expendable, but he just turned 23 and has 5 more years of team control. That runs far beyond the "window." There's also still a good chance someone from the others (Espi, Dubon, Basabe, Allen, Asuaje and more) will end up being meaningful contributors at the ML level.

Teams willing to consistently outspend the cap don't have a cliff. By the sounds of it, many here viewed Ben's tenure as a 4 year canyon full of cliffs... yet we remained a top spending team all 4 years. It can happen.

You asked who would start. Pedey is out- maybe for the whole year. Clearly Moncada would be a better choice than Holt or Hernandez. Dubon might give both a run for their money, too. If we did not trade Kopech for sale, Kopech would be looking to win one of two slots opened by ERod's injury and the theoretical take back of the trade for Sale. Margot would not beat out JBJ, but he'd be a better choice than HRam at DH, and we really need a 4th OF'er. He could easily get 550+ PAs for the Sox next year If we took back all the trades, we'd have Shaw at 1B, Moncada or Dubon at 2B, Margot at DH/4th OF and Kopech as a strong candidate for 5th starter. Many of these kids were not expected to be significant ML player in 2018, but they probably would have been had we kept them. (BTW, I wasn't even for keeping them all. Kimmi has stated she felt ben would have made a big deal, too- just not 4.)

To me , the talk of an impending cliff is not only a failure to enjoy the moment , but a misplaced case of Cherington nostalgia. 100% wrong on so many fronts, it would take me pages to explain.