moonslav59

It sounds like a derogatory term.

All the more highlight shown on the pitching.

Good points. On the SB drop-off: Betts 30>16 (OBP .438>.391) Beni 21>10 (OBP .366>.343) JBJ 17>8 (a year older and slower) but, maybe not... 2018>2019 (singles+ BBs) Betts 177>197 Beni 176>145 JBJ 107>115

New rankings... https://soxprospects.com/index.html (ranking fall 2019) 1. Casas (same) 2. Downs (n/a) 3. Mata (2) 4. Duran (6) 5. Jimenez (4) 6. Dalbec (5) 7. Houck (7) 8. Ward (10) 9. Seabold (n/a) 10. A Ramirez (12) 11. Song (8) 12. Groome (3) 13. Yorke (n/a) 14. Bonaci (n/a) 15. Rosario (n/a) 16. Lugo (13) 17. Potts (n/a) 18. Murphy (14) 19. Jordan (n/a) 20. Decker(15) 21. Wong 22. Bello 23. Wallace 24. Zeferjahn 25. Arauz 26. Bazardo 27. J Rodriguez 28. Feltman 29. Wilson 30. C-J Liu 31. Grullon 32. Aybar 33. Drohan 34. Castellanos 35. Lopez 36. Blalock 37. Howlett 38. Chatham 39. Cannon 40. Perales

The injury and durability issues came up harshly. I don't think that was expected to the extreme it occurred. Also, we had too many unexpected declines: While a decline was probably likely from Betts, after that great 2018 season, a 163 point OPS drop was rather extreme. Pearce fell off a cliff, but the real cliff diving came with our pitching staff. Only ERod improved his WAR, among our top innings pitchers: Sale 6.2> 3.6 Porcello 2.4> 1.8 Price 2.4> 2.3 Eovaldi 1.5>-0.3 (and Nathan was not with the 2018 team all year!) Much blame was directed towards our 2019 pen, but the SP'ers saw a huge decline. I don't think this sharp decline was to be expected. Team SP'er WAR decline: 14.3 to 10.9 (65 less IP'd, too) Team RP'er WAR (even without Kimbrel) 4.0 to 5.6 (78 more IP'd)

Very true. The injury and durability issues came up harshly in 2019, but I don't think, even in hindsight, the window should have closed after 2018. I think the whole "plan" was to build up a super team with a 5-6 year window, expecting a rebuild of some sort afterwards...maybe not expecting a "cliff" but knowing some sort of regrouping would be needed by 2022, at the latest. IMO, part of Henry's loss of faith, or whatever we want to call it, in DD was that "the window" we invested so much into, only lasted 3 years- not 5+ years. What a great 3 years that was, though!

True, but we were looking at having full seasons from Eovaldi, Pearce, ERod and Sale and a Devers getting one year closer to peak prime. Yes, Price's durability was iffy, but didn't we feel better about him after his 2018 playoff performance than ever before? A step down may have been expected, but winning 108 games in 2018 allowed us to "step down" to 98 or 100 wins and still be a top contender. I always felt like "the window" would end after 2019 or 2020- maybe even 2022.

I get that, and injuries or lack of injuries play a big part of the equation, too. Our 2019 team looked pretty damn good, on paper. It was very close to the 2018 opening day roster (pre-Eovaldi & Pearce). It wasn't that I felt we had no chance at winning it all in 2013, and I was thrilled with the Dodger trade that dumped CC, which allowed us the budget space to sign all those mid level free agents. I just felt we needed a better top of the rotation, and signing guys like Dempster never thrilled me. BTW, we may not have won without the Peavy acquisition. Lackey's situation was hard to value on opening day, and Buch was always a wild card (12-1 that year). I'm not for giving up on 2021, but I do not think it's unreasonable to prefer any signings that are beyond 1 year deals to be for players that look to be just as good or better in 2022 and beyond. (Maybe Morton will be.)

If it's deliberate, that too need explanation.

I know the movie, but how does it relate to any GM, let alone Bloom? I understood the "desperate Dave" nickname, but this one needs explanation.

Not many "young" starters are free agents. It takes too many years to get to free agency. To get very good young pitching, you have to trade for it. Problem: what GMs are looking to trade good young pitching? We couldn't even get one for Betts.

What's with the "Hang 'em"? Seriously.I don't get it.

Of course they will, even if COVID continues through 2021.

The Marlins ownership demanded the sell-offs. (The long time returning to respectability was not all on DD. They didn't even try to get back for many years.) The Tigers ownership demanded a win now philosophy. I have to think Henry knew what DD was going to do, when he hired him, so to me, it's not all on DD and besides, DD brought us the best 3 year stretch in 90+ years of Red Sox history. Focusing on just the bad aspects of his era is well within your rights, but did you enjoy those 3 years? 2018 was a super team- super record- super playoffs. I can totally sympathize with anyone who thinks the few years we're in the middle of suck, and they do. I can understand anyone thinking 2016 to 2018 does not outweigh the 2019-2021, but to me it was, and I can't see how anyone can feel so strongly that the balance is so out of whack as to never even mention the good side of DD's era. (I also feel the same about those who so strongly bash the Ben era.)

As I just stated, I think DD and Henry felt "the window would last 5-6 years and would be worth the sell-off. (2016 to 2020 or 2021) Had we done well in 2019 and 2020, maybe Betts stays, but if a re-set was always going to be in the pans, they had to know the good dimes would end, at some point, and a rebuild or some sort would have to happen- most likely without DD at the helm.

I think both DD and Henry felt the window created by DD's farm sell off would last to 2020 and maybe 2021, but I do think he knew the cliff was going to happen. 2019 was a shocker. The "end" came too soon.

Certainly, his upside potential looks much higher than any of us thought it would be before those 3 starts with the Sox, this year. I'm very optimistic, but we have to remember, it was only 17 IP.

My guess is it's more like 140-160 IP, and they may try to extend his team control years by sending him to AAA for the needed time frame. With Sale starting the season on the IL- likely the 60 day IL, I could see Houck starting the season in the rotation with a pretty strict pitch count, then spending the middle of the season in AAA on a vert low pitch count regime before being called back up, especially if we are in the playoff hunt, later in the season.

The worst possible outcome for DD would have been to spend all that capital- both financial & in young prospects trades- and not get a ring. Sure, it looked and still looks like it was overkill, but nothing is a sure bet in baseball. What he did really hurt our long term outlook, but those 3 seasons were incredibly exciting and that 2018 team will go down as one of the best teams of all time. The window of success should really have been 4-5 years, but the Gods of 2019 were not kind to us. (Not that I'm complaining- 4 rings in 15 years was heavenly.) Had the 2018 ring been our first in 80+ years, I doubt anyone would be complaining- not that this makes everything alright. Also, hardly anybody criticizes Henry, and for good reason, but you have to know he hired DD to do what he did. He could have told him, at anytime, "enough is enough- be happy with what we have and roll the dice." Going overboard was the accepted plan by the team. Mortgaging the future was part of the plan.

Truth.

Dave was "desperate" to win in Detroit- as the owner basically told him to be. I don't like the nickname, but it kinda fit. Sure, Ben had less power given to him than DD, but I see "coffee boy" and being more disparaging and unfitting, but that's just my opinion. Besides, it's not the worst thing said about Ben, either. Maybe, the most juvenile, but Ben was bashed harshly during and after his time with the Sox, and it lasted years afterwards. If Bloom is able to turn things around, quickly, my guess is the DD bashing will nearly go away. IMO, Ben was bashed more 2-3 years after he left than DD was within one year of leaving. I may be wrong, but that's my perception. Like I said, though, 3 last place finishes compared to DD's 3 years of great teams put out by DD looked at without the context what was left them when the took over and what they left the next guy helps explain why it is what is is.

I actually feel better about D Hern being a great pitcher than Houck, but that's not a put down on Houck. I know there are countless has been pitchers who "only had to improve their control" to be great but never did, but D Hern has near record-breaking K rates. He can be unhittable. True, the sample size is small (39 IP in MLB), but a 16.3 K/9 rate is astounding! Sadly, so is his 7.9 BB/9 rate. His 5.4 H/9 rate was encouraging, this year, but his BB rate actually went up from 2019. No ML pitcher has a higher K/9 rate and more IP'd than DHern has since 2019. The same can be said about his BB rate. (Actually, no pitcher in MLB history has had a K rate like DHern's after 39 IP.) BTW, DHern's 39 IP small sample size is over double Houck's 17 IP in MLB.

I think Larry called DD "desperate Dave" before we even signed him. I guess you could call that "juvenile," but it has kind of been his M.O.- win now at all costs. If that's the most juvenile thing DD bashers have said, IMO, it pales against "coffee boy" and some of the other extremely harsh criticisms leveled against Ben. Now, 3 last place finishes in 4 years is certainly reason enough to be critical and even hyper critical. DD's record was much better, as long as we ignore (or devalue) the state the team was left in after their departures. IMO, Ben left DD with a foundation or top young players and a long list of high-demand prospects that could and were used to build the greatest Sox team in history- the 2018 WS champions. DD left Bloom is a much worse situation, and that's putting it mildly. I'm thankful for the 2018 ring. I'm glad DD was our GM. His teams were exciting to watch beyond just the 2018 team, but we paid a hefty price for those 3-4 seasons of high competitiveness. To me, it was worth it. To others, it was overkill or much worse. Some will find it hard to let go of those feelings just as some seem to have a hard time letting go of their feelings towards Bloom some 5 years after he left. The fact that we sucked, last year and have little hope for 2020 makes the "letting go" harder. (2019 didn't help either.)

At that time, I felt those moves were a "halfway" attempt at trying to look just competitive enough to keep the fans in the loop. (Yes, I have been wrong many times before, and could be again on this position.) I don't see us as having as good a foundation as that 2013 team before those moves, and we will likely have to focus on signing 5-6 mid range (or even lower) players, depending on our spending allowance, this winter. I'm sure some of the signings will be stop-gap signings and not about 2022 and beyond, and I'm not against the idea. We do need someone to start some games for us in 2020, so had we signed Morton, I'd have been okay with the idea, but I'd rather we look at signing 2 year players[ that have higher upside in 2022. My guess is, we sign a bunch of one year deals, so my point may be moot. BTW, I really disliked the Dempster signing and felt the Vic signing was needed but a year too long. I loved the Napoli and Uehara deals. I disliked the Drew deal, since as you know, I was a big Iggy fan.

He wouldn't be "Pedey," if he went out meekly.