moonslav59

Agreed, but I'm feeling more and more like this is all about 2025 or 2026, and fattening JH's wallet, along the way.

Another option is trading from our everyday unbalanced farm for a young pitcher, but again, if we are not going to try to win in 2024, why waste a year of said pitcher? Just punt, and do something splashy, next winter.

You are not alone.

Why bring up an old one to add yet another thread?

Exactly. This is not the first time, either. We cut salary bigtime with the Betts & half-Price deal. We cut salary and got 4 prospects and min wage Franchy for Beni. The Pivetta deal saved us money and got us a prospect (Seabold.) We saved money with Vaz for prospects. We dumped salary in the Diekman for McGuire trade. Even when we took on salary, like Ottavino and JBJ, we got prospects, too. (Hosmer as well.) This is our M.O., now.

Imanaga has until 5 pm Jan 11th to sign, so we know one is less than a week away.

I don't think any of us are fixated. I see guys like Wacha, Giolito, Lugo and a few others as afterthoughts or secondary types of signings to the hoped for top end SP'er, we have yet to add or may never add. There isn't much to talk about. Giolito is not much different from any of the others I mentioned plus a few more I can't think of, right now.

Some players who signed with the Sox went on to get significant contracts after leaving, but yes, Beltre was atop or near the top of the list. Strahm: $3M/1 > $15M/2 R Hill: $5M/1 > $8M/1 So many others flopped and flailed and never made as much as they did with their one and done with us.

I agree, but if we were looking at the 2024 budget plus the next few years, I could imagine a thought process like this, with any team, except BOS: 1. X is the limit for this winter's budget. For argument's sake, say we had $20M to spend. Trading Sale made it $30M for 2024, only. 2. X is the budget for 2025 and beyond, and the Sale contract comes off the books, allowing us to afford that higher level pitcher we ended up signing, instead of Paxton.

I thought this poster was against big FA pitcher signings, in the first place. Now, that's what we should have used 1 year of Sale's money to do.

It misses the pitchers who consistently get outs without K's. I get how that is an issue with a team that fields like we do, but there is a hole in xFIP, as with any stat. Do you think xFIP outweighs ERA- and WHIP, combined?

They did have EValdez as their 10th ranked prospect, last summer before he graduated. He hit better than Rafaela in small sample sizes in MLB, last summer. Over the past 3 years, only 8 players in all of minor league baseball had a higher OPS and more PAs than Valdez. (One was Grisson.) He does have two weaknesses: - He sucks on D, and has very little experience at 1B - His splits are wide, but he has not been below .700 v LHPs in any of the last 3 seasons. I'd rather have Rafaela as the OF and utility IF'er over Valdez. With Reyes, we do not need Valdez and Rafaela. I guess the Sox are not worried about back-up 1B, as Teoscar has never played 1B. Think of all the 1B/OF guys out there.

Of course all prospects are a gamble, but who among us thinks Sale was not a big gamble, and at least Grissom has a few years to show value. I started out wondering why a team in such high need for SP'ing would ever trade away, even a big gamble pitcher like Sale, even with the addition of an innings-eater like Gio, but I like the move, now. If we add a good SP'er (or two,) it will look even better. If we actually spend the $10M "saved" (note the quotes,) it could be a great trade.

The team of pillows!

Yes, I was not super high on Wacha (or Giolito.) To me, both are risky for differing reasons. It's a close call, and I have no issues with anyone thinking Gio is a better gamble. Gio blows Wacha away in IP and GS, but Wacha is about middle of the road on both, and those are his worst numbers out of any. xFIP is not great, and MVP uses that stat often, so he is not singling out an area that does not usually matter to him. I respect that, but to me, we should not ignore WHIP, ERA- and ERA+, either, and Wacha has looked very good in those areas for the last 2 or 3 years. I did not expect this discussion to go on this long, but what else do we have to talk about? Snell going to the Yanks? Monty going somewhere else? Imanaga or Stroman as our last gasp stab at something useful?

And nothing else counts, even when his IP are about middle of the pack. Got it.

Grissom is not "little known" among those who pay attention to the top ranked prospects in baseball. I heard of him long before I checked his BTV numbers. The trade may backfire, spectacularly in two ways (or both): Sale could do great with ATL. Grissom may be the next Downs.

Certainly, starting one in AAA makes sense, so they can play everyday, and that would open up a slot for Dalbec or EValdez. I'm also wondering, if we try to trade Refsnyder, especially if we add Teoscar or some other CF/RF'er. To me, the bench I suggested are the best players for the 26, except for the fact we have no back-up 1Bman with those 4. That's not a minor issue, and that is one reason I suggested devers take some reps at 1B. I'm not sure platoons in LF and or CF are the best ideas, especially when you want to get young players like Abreu and Rafaela enough playing time. LF: Duran-Refsnyder CF- Abreu-Rafaela Sitting ref is oka, but sitting Rafaela for the short end of a platoon is far from ideal. I agree. Trading Rey does not give Rafaela more platoon opportunities, but would likely get him more PAs- just still not enough. I've been one of Dalbec's biggest supporters, but I just don't see the value, anymore. It does make sense to start rafaela or abreu at AAA, but I think we should do better than Dalbec. If we are in sham mode, then who cares? Let's see what Dalbec can do, once and for all.

DH: Yoshida LF: Duran CF: Rafaela or Abreu (The other is on the bench) RF: O'Neill Bench: McQuire Reyes Refsnyder Rafaela OR Abreu 4 bench slots.

We will not start 5 guys at DH and 3 OF slots: One of these is also on the bench: Rafaela, Abreu or maybe Duran v LHPs.

I think our 4 man bench, assuming we don't add Teoscar, will be Abreu or Rafaela, whoever does not start in CF, Refsnyder, Reyes and McGuire

And Yoshida can play LF and push Duran to CF. All are better than we have for back-up 1B.

LF Duran (back-ups: Refsnyder, Yoshida, Abreu) CF Rafaela-Abreu (Duran) RF O'Neill (Abreu, Refsnyder)

Yes, if he goes on the IL, Dalbec will be called up. Who plays 1B when Cora rests casas once every 16 games?

Here is a better way to look at it. GS split seasons. Wacha averaged 23.3 GS per season over the last 3 seasons. 150 slots for SP (5 x 30 teams) x 3 seasons= 450. 269 pitchers started 24 game over the last 3 seasons in any given season. That is over half or 450. 90 top tier out of 5 91-180 2nd tier 181-270 3rd tier which is where Wacha sits (high end of 3rd tier.) High end middle 271-360 4th tier 361-450 5th tier He's high end middle and this is his worst stat over the last 3 years.