Maxbialystock

Too bad nobody else is watching this game. If they were, I would ask them to answer this simple question-- Given that just about everyone on talksox--except me, of course--believes Houck is incapable of getting anyone out the third time through the lineup, who besides me wants him to come back out to pitch the 6th inning?

1/6 with RISP.

Sox already 1 for 5 with RISP. The 1 was Abreu's defensive swing on a ball way outside--that softly fell in front of the leftfielder for the Sox' only run.

Meh. I agree the baserunning has been lousy, but that was pretty much a guaranteed double play. A hard hit liner to the 3d baseman's left, the 2d baseman moving to cover 2B, and Rafaela with a lead and absolutely no chance to get back.

While I recognize that all managers and CBO's are hired to be fired, I'm inclined to be supportive of the incumbents. I have supported Bloom because I understood JH's intent to go in a new direction, which included spending less. That was/is unprecedented in the 20+ seasons of the John Henry era, which has been hugely successful because of a willingness to spend to bring in better arms and bats than were coming up through the Sox system. On the other hand, a whole bunch of talksoxers have provided specific examples of Bloom era acquisitions that haven't worked out--as well as Sox players who went to other teams and did well. The current team can no longer gripe about all the talent on the IL because most everyone is healthy/available--and they are still playing lousy baseball. By that I mean hitting, especially with RISP, pitching, defense, and baserunning. Heck, forget all those things and just look at their won-lost record since Sale, Story, Duvall, Reyes, Whitlock, Houck, et al, have returned from the IL.

I'm curious. The name of this website is "Talksox," which carries the presumption that contributors want to discuss the Boston Red Sox. But I can't remember the last time you wrote anything about the Red Sox. Instead, you seem to be obsessed with insulting the rest of us who do want to discuss the Red Sox. In case you're at all interested in the team, I offer the following topics-- The firing of Chaim Bloom. The possibility that Alex Cora could be gone soon. Today's double-header with the Yankees. The Sox pitching staff. The Sox defense. The Sox hitting, especially with RISP. The Rafael Devers contract. The younger Sox like Casas, Duran, Rafaela, Bloom, Abreu, et al

Congrats to mvp 78 for starting this unbelievably predictive thread. By the title I thought it was premature, but in fact it was right on target. Will there be a similar thread on Alex Cora?

You going to change the date/time to 14 Sep, 1:35?

While I agree the players make a huge difference and managers are hired to be fired, I do think some managers, including Sox managers, are better than other managers. JH has the final say in hiring and firing managers, but he's always had a pretty good brain trust to help him in hiring/firing a total of 6 managers: Grady Little (a subpar manager fired after the 2003 season almost certainly for leaving Pedro in too long in the ALCS; the Dodgers also fired him after 2 seasons); Terry Francona (excellent manager fired after 8 good seasons, 2004-11, including 2 WS wins, but had to go after the 2011 September collapse plus players drinking beer during games); Bobby Valentine (one season mistake in 2012); John Farrell (5 seasons, 2013-17, 1 WS in 2013, let go after 2 good teams, 2016 and 2017, stunk in the postseason); Alex Cora (5 seasons, suspended in 2020 but hired back immediately afterward, 1 WS and best Sox season ever, 1 ALCS season in 2021 without Sale, Price, Mookie, Kimbrel, Beni, etc, 2 bad seasons, 2022 and 2023, but with the lowest salary rankings in the John Henry era). From the above I conclude Terry Francona and Alex Cora are easily the two best of six managers if we include Ron Roenicke in the 2020 season. But, while I prefer Cora, I think Francona's record is far better because he's been excellent in Boston and Cleveland. However, of the six managers, only Cora has been asked to do "more with less," which has been going on since the 2019 season.

He could be "better" next year and still be a weak bat. The real question is whether his OPS gets comfortably over .800. Rafaela so far is a partial solution to the righty bat issue--as Story could also be. After those two--and assuming Duvall and Turner are gone--I don't see a lot of righty prowess and even less righty power. Abreu, Dugo, Yoshida, Devers, Casas, and Duran are all lefty bats. And Fenway is best suited for righty bats.

If Llovera was your only complaint, why not give Cora credit for using him successfully? Indeed, when Llovera entered the game, the score was 3-2, which was the final score of the game. Bravo, Cora! Also, why do you ignore Cora's managing in the 2021 season? I think it was maybe better than in 2018.

Hitting is way, way more important than defense or baserunning. Yesterday was an excellent example of weak "situational hitting." In game 2 the Sox were 0 for 15 with RISP.

Excuse me. Does "a long ways in the rearview mirror" include the 2021 season, which was 2 years ago and a season in which the Sox got to the ALCS after beating the Yankees and the 100 win Rays to get there?

I agree completely with anyone who says Nate Eovaldi is having a terrific season this year with the Rangers. In fact, it's far and away his best season ever. And that's my point. For whatever reason, I believe the Rangers--like the Dodgers and maybe other teams--know more about pitching than the Sox do. I don't know what they did, but it is clear to me the Rangers fixed something about how Eovaldi pitches. I therefore believe that, had the Sox resigned Eovaldi for more than $34M for two seasons--the contract he has now--his ERA this season with the Sox would be around 3.90 vs. the 2.90 it is with Texas. Also think he would have missed some starts--as he did with the Sox and has already with the Rangers.

I'm not sure his disappointment is all that profound because I think he decided to cut back on payroll and specifically to stop buying starters with longish contracts who then fold--like Price and Sale. And I say that because I think the ending of the movie Moneyball--when John Henry tries to hire Billy Beane for over $10M/year to build a Sox team the way he put together the 2002 A's--is a true story. However, I also think JH listened to his guys back in 2002 and went the traditional Sox route of buying talent, mostly pitchers, but also David Ortiz and Manny Ramirez, from other teams to fill out the ranks/talent from the Sox farm system. And it worked--4 WS in 16 years!! Among those 4 was the 2018 Sox, put together by big spending DD and the best Sox team ever. But, as I've already said too many times, I believe 2019 was a huge disappointment for John Henry, so he canned DD and brought in Chaim Bloom from the Rays system, the one that this year has the 27th largest payroll in MLB and the 2d best record in the AL and the 3d best in MLB. About attendance. This year so far the average is 32,889. In 2018, the greatest Sox season ever, it was 35,747. That's a drop of 2,841 or 8 freaking per cent. And don't forget the covid pandemic that shortened the 2020 season and held Sox attendance down to 21,300 just 2 years ago.

My take is that overall the bullpen did a good job yesterday and that Cora's decisions were borderline prescient. Your chief complaint seems to be Cora waiting too long to pull Pivetta. But Illinoisox has pointed out that things happened too quickly in the 6th inning to have any chance of warming up a reliever in time. Specifically, the first two baserunners--an HBP followed by a single--were on base after just 3 pitches, which was much too soon to get someone on the mound for the 3d batter. And the third batter, LeMahieu, was the guy who made the biggest difference with the double that brought in 1 run and put runners on 2d and 3d with no one out. Then Judge flied out with no one one scoring. However, Torres then hit a ground ball single to right to bring home the Yankees 2d and 3d runs. Pivetta walked Stanton before Llovera came in to get the final two outs with no more Yankees runs scored. And the Yankees won 3-2 because the Sox couldn't score a run after their 2 runs in the 4th. It's perhaps worth noting that the 2d Sox run was from a Casas double, a grounder moving him to 3d base, and a wild pitch bringing him home. Casas does not score without that WP because the next batter walked and then Rafaela flied out for the third out. So, basically, you and others are pissed at Cora for sending Pivetta out to pitch the 6th when he'd thrown just 70 pitches and had a seamless (3 up, 3 down) 5th inning. And you deliberately downplay the fact that the Sox collective lineups for the doubleheader drove in 1 run in game 1 and another run in game 2. Cora is not the problem for this year's Sox. He was terrific in the 2018 season, the single best Sox season ever, and pretty terrific in the 2021 season when the Sox were without a bunch of the stalwarts from the 2018 team--Sale, Price, Porcello, Kimbrel, Mookie, Benintendi, JBJ, Holt, Moreland, et al. In fact, I would argue that the 2016 and 2017 teams both had more talent than the 2021 Sox team, but they didn't have Cora managing and were smacked down in the ALDS, 3 games to 0 both years. The 2021 Sox had no closer for the postseason, but still beat the Yankees in the wild card and the 100 win Rays in the ALDS, 3 games to 1, before losing to the Astros in the ALCS.

Sox pitching was fine in both games. The horrible lack of hitting is was what killed them.

That was a blessing. Trust me. If Abreu had somehow gotten to 2b, the Sox would have been 0 for 16 with RISP instead of 0 for 15.

I think each of us should be allowed to say something absolutely insane on a game thread, so here's my shot. I've enjoyed both games because I've seen some pretty good baseball here in September. Is the Sox weak hitting frustrating? Absolutely. But the Sox pitching has been surprisingly good, so both games have been well worth watching.

Ahem. We saw the Yankees face exactly the same situation in the 9th when they desperately wanted to replace Holmes, but couldn't get someone ready while he was walking three Sox players. You keep claiming the issue was "common sense" but ignore the reality that after the HBP of the Yankees' leadoff batter in the 6th, Cora had just two pitches by Pivetta in which to warm up a reliever. The facts are that the reliever got in there as soon as it was feasible.

But completely in tune with the Sox dilemma all season long. Their pitching stinks, so they need to score runs to win. Out of 73 wins, just 12 happened when the Sox scored fewer than 5 runs. Today they scored just 2 runs. And let's not forget that in fact the Sox were freaking hitless in the 9th inning.

They had a guy in the bullpen desperately trying to warm up, but he couldn't in time even though there were numerous visits to the mound and other stalling tactics. You're darn right they wanted to replace Holmes. As illinoisox pointed out, Cora had exactly 2 pitches in which to warm up a reliever for Pivetta after he hit the leadoff batter in the 6th with his first pitch. The next guy singled on an 0-1 pitch. Your scenario for getting Pivetta out of the game is completely untenable.

No, you claimed that a Sox reliever could get warm in 2 freaking pitches which these days amounts to 40 freaking seconds. That's a non-answer.

And that's a fact, jack!

Nobody does that after an HBP of the leadoff batter when your pitcher is going so great and has thrown just 71 freaking pitches.