Blue Jays (Cease) vs Red Sox (Gray): 7/25/26, 4:10pm

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

1 minute ago, SPLENDIDSPLINTER said:

0.88 ERA in his last 5 starts at Fenway, so this wasn't a fluke.

I hope Toronto doesn't trade Cease to an AL contender.

[Maxbialystock]

3 minutes ago, SPLENDIDSPLINTER said:

0.88 ERA in his last 5 starts at Fenway, so this wasn't a fluke.

Wow.  

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

1 minute ago, Maxbialystock said:

Meh.  This was the best World Cup I can remember and the play was mostly brilliant.  The offsides rule is what keeps the scores so low because it heavily favors the defense.   Given that, the players are amazing, especially the passing.   To come from behind (0-1 with less than 15 min to go) Argentina's Messi had to make two terrific passes leading to two goals.  But nothing worked against Spain's excellent defense.  

Funny thing, but I also didn't hate today's game because I thought Cease was throwing great stuff.  Meanwhile the Sox defense was terrific.  I mention that because I've yet to read anyone else on Talksox agree that the defense has made a real difference this season.  

The pitching and defense has been praised on the game threads even when the Sox were constantly losing.

[moonslav59]

Let's hope this one hit display by the offense is just a blip.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

9 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Let's hope this one hit display by the offense is just a blip.

Sometimes Moon you have to tip your cap to the opposing pitcher. And Cease has exceptional numbers pitching at Fenway.

[Maxbialystock]

3 hours ago, FredLynn said:

Home plate umpiring remains suspect 

Horsehockey.  The catchers and hitters are free to challenge and are frequently wrong, especially when not challenging a call that is wrong.  That said I think three regurlarly challenges umps will retire at the end of this season.  

[FredLynn]

50 minutes ago, SPLENDIDSPLINTER said:

I hope Toronto doesn't trade Cease to an AL contender.

They just signed him for 7 years. He’s already on a decent team that has underperformed this year after nearly taking down the Dodgers in the WS.

[FredLynn]

1 minute ago, Maxbialystock said:

Horsehockey.  The catchers and hitters are free to challenge and are frequently wrong, especially when not challenging a call that is wrong.  That said I think three regurlarly challenges umps will retire at the end of this season.  

Many of the calls that weren’t challenged were off. 

[moonslav59]

21 minutes ago, SPLENDIDSPLINTER said:

Sometimes Moon you have to tip your cap to the opposing pitcher. And Cease has exceptional numbers pitching at Fenway.

Indeed, and sometimes a game like this sets a team into a tailspin.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

3 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Indeed, and sometimes a game like this sets a team into a tailspin.

Let's talk after tomorrow's game. It's possible you may be correct, but it's baseball where anything can happen.  Like the most unlikely team winning 15 straight.

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, SPLENDIDSPLINTER said:

Let's talk after tomorrow's game. It's possible you may be correct, but it's baseball where anything can happen.  Like the most unlikely team winning 15 straight.

In no way am I projecting gloom & doom.

I think we will play over .550 ball the rest or the way.

[Maxbialystock]

21 hours ago, FredLynn said:

Many of the calls that weren’t challenged were off. 

Lots.  Hitters and catchers both have direct views of the strike zone, but the umps have to position themselves behind the catcher, which makes it tough to get the low pitches right.  

I would remind you yet again that nobody on the field--not the umps or players or coaches--can see that rectangle we all worship from the comfort of our homes (or bars).   And no other sport--and not yet MLB, thank goodness--automatically lets a computer/camera linkup make 200-300 calls a game.  

Somehow MLB came up with a brilliant solution.  Let catchers and hitters immediately challenge a call with a limit of two bad challenges a game.   

[moonslav59]

Just now, Maxbialystock said:

Somehow MLB came up with a brilliant solution.  Let catchers and hitters immediately challenge a call with a limit of two bad challenges a game.   

The brilliant solution is to just have every pitched called by robo and relayed to the plate ump to call in the traditional manner.

Seamless. Unnoticeable. 100% correct calls. No delays due to challenges.

 

[Maxbialystock]

22 hours ago, SPLENDIDSPLINTER said:

The pitching and defense has been praised on the game threads even when the Sox were constantly losing.

Anyone can tell the pitching is great via the team ERA.  But I think I'm the only one who has pointed out how many unearned runs the Sox have given up this season.  It they maintain the current rate of 27 per 102 games they will finish with roughly half of the unearned runs of last season.  

I'm also the only one who has praised Breslow for returning Duran this season.  He sure has come in handy with Anthony out since April (and probably for the rest of the season).  His fielding is excellent and after 102 games he is still ranked 2d on the team in rbi's--despite a lousy OPS (.602).  

Here's another one--a rave for Chad Tracy for leaving Gray in for 5 runs (all in the 3d inning) and 5 IP yesterday and then pulling Suarez after 0 runs and 4 IP today.  Smart baseball.  

[moonslav59]

7 minutes ago, Maxbialystock said:

Anyone can tell the pitching is great via the team ERA.  But I think I'm the only one who has pointed out how many unearned runs the Sox have given up this season.  It they maintain the current rate of 27 per 102 games they will finish with roughly half of the unearned runs of last season.  

MIL (356) and NYY (342) have let up fewer ERs than us but not LAD. The Dodgers are tied with us at 364.

I'm kinda surprised at us being only 4th in  DRS and T3rd in OAA has us on defense, but fangraphs has us listed 3rd best, but that's still way better than 2024 and 2025.

2026 AVG: 3rd

2025: 12th DRS, 10th OAA & 5th fangraphs. (AVG: 9th)

2024: 6th DRS, 25th OAA and 26th fangraphs. (AVG: 19th)

Fantastic improvement.

[Maxbialystock]

13 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

The brilliant solution is to just have every pitched called by robo and relayed to the plate ump to call in the traditional manner.

Seamless. Unnoticeable. 100% correct calls. No delays due to challenges.

 

We will never agree on this topic because I prefer the human element to the degree that it can be maintained.  The umpires are part of the game.  When they  make a call, absolutely the last thing we should want them to be is invisible. 

Sports are a human endeavor which hopefully will stay that way.  Because of those cameras and the countless replays available to the TV audience,  MLB (and the NFL, NBA, and now even the World Cup) reviews/replayes had/have to be allowed--but with limits on how many.

About those "no delays due to challenges."  To make that happen would youwant fair and foul balls called by the computer?  How about safe and out on the bases?   Catch or no catch?  Infield fly rule?  Catcher interference?  HBP or not?  Baserunners interfering with fielders?  Full swing vs part swing?  Balks?  

 

 

[moonslav59]

1 minute ago, Maxbialystock said:

We will never agree on this topic because I prefer the human element to the degree that it can be maintained.  The umpires are part of the game.  When they  make a call, absolutely the last thing we should want them to be is invisible. 

Sports are a human endeavor which hopefully will stay that way.  Because of those cameras and the countless replays available to the TV audience,  MLB (and the NFL, NBA, and now even the World Cup) reviews/replayes had/have to be allowed--but with limits on how many.

About those "no delays due to challenges."  To make that happen would youwant fair and foul balls called by the computer?  How about safe and out on the bases?   Catch or no catch?  Infield fly rule?  Catcher interference?  HBP or not?  Baserunners interfering with fielders?  Full swing vs part swing?  Balks?  

I'm not sure why anyone would choose to have ump mistakes and call it "the human element."

Foul balls are not a major concern to me, but sure- leave that to the ump and maybe make it challengeable. Put a chip in the ball? Meh.

Check swings could be robo-called, IMO.

Balks is a tough one.

[Duran Is The Man]

1 hour ago, Maxbialystock said:

We will never agree on this topic because I prefer the human element to the degree that it can be maintained.  The umpires are part of the game.  When they  make a call, absolutely the last thing we should want them to be is invisible. 

Sports are a human endeavor which hopefully will stay that way.  Because of those cameras and the countless replays available to the TV audience,  MLB (and the NFL, NBA, and now even the World Cup) reviews/replayes had/have to be allowed--but with limits on how many.

About those "no delays due to challenges."  To make that happen would youwant fair and foul balls called by the computer?  How about safe and out on the bases?   Catch or no catch?  Infield fly rule?  Catcher interference?  HBP or not?  Baserunners interfering with fielders?  Full swing vs part swing?  Balks?  

 

 

the 1985 Cardinals and their fans would have loved to have had a replay review of the Don Denkinger call that absolutely f***ed the Cardinals out of the World Series Championship. i could go on. 

[illinoisredsox]

2 minutes ago, Duran Is The Man said:

the 1985 Cardinals and their fans would have loved to have had a replay review of the Don Denkinger call that absolutely f***ed the Cardinals out of the World Series Championship. i could go on. 

Or maybe the Cardinals could have taught Darrell Porter or Jack Clark how to catch a foul pop up for what would have been the first out; that changed the inning as well.

The Cards also still had a game 7 they could have won.  They didn't even show up.  A year later, the Sox lost a World Series game 6 in horrific fashion but managed to play a competitive 7th game.

[Maxbialystock]

14 hours ago, Duran Is The Man said:

the 1985 Cardinals and their fans would have loved to have had a replay review of the Don Denkinger call that absolutely f***ed the Cardinals out of the World Series Championship. i could go on. 

No doubt.  Umps are human.  And sports are uniquely human.  Right now there are replays available--with the option of changing the call--in almost every aspect of the game.  

Funny thing, but we have no idea of how accurate those rectangles are that define the strike zone for each and every player.  They are in fact arbitrary rectangles, presumably sized to fit each player, but even that's a sloppy business.  Despite that the replays--caused by challenges--show a ball inside the strike zone by just 1/10 of an is still a strike.  

But our disagreement is more fundamental than that.  I want human umpires, not automatons, and I am perfectly happy with a degree of imperfection.  

What we have discovered with this season's new use of challenges to ball and strike calls is that the umpires--with very few exceptions--are way better at calling balls and strikes than are the players, including catchers.   The new larger bases (5 years ago?) make calls at 2d and 3d much harder because baserunners can sometimes avoid outs even when the throw and the tag are pretty good.  Replays of calls at 1b show that 1/100th of a second is enough to make the umpire wrong.  

[Maxbialystock]

15 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

I'm not sure why anyone would choose to have ump mistakes and call it "the human element."

Foul balls are not a major concern to me, but sure- leave that to the ump and maybe make it challengeable. Put a chip in the ball? Meh.

Check swings could be robo-called, IMO.

Balks is a tough one.

But humans play the game, watch the games, and call the games in a system that has worked well for over a century.  As I keep insisting, no one on the field of play can see the freaking rectangle that defines the strike zone we see on our screens.   I think the vast majority of Americans love technology, but I for one don't want it impinging excessively on the human nature of sports.   

Balls and strikes--of which there are normally 200-300 in every game--are the unique essence of baseball.  And it is inhuman to want all of them called by a system of cameras and computers.  You cannot name a sport whose essence relies solely on cameras and computers with zero involvement of human umpires/referees.  

Indeed, I think the current system of player challenges has skillfully insisted on a human solution to that devilish rectangle on our screens.   The umpires are still in control of the game and extremely visible when they call balls and strikes, fair or foul, caught or not caught, safe or not safe, etc.  

[Maxbialystock]

On 7/25/2026 at 7:30 PM, moonslav59 said:

Let's hope this one hit display by the offense is just a blip.

"Let's hope" is the definition of this season with its astounding ups and downs.    We all loved the 15 game winning streak, but can't be sure it's the real 2026 Sox.  And, as you say, the question is whether the Sox can keep scoring runs.  Well, they did score 6 yesterday to take 2/3 from the Jays, and now they go to California to play 4 vs the Athletics and 3 vs the Dodgers.  

In other words, July has been fantastic, but it ain't over yet--and August and September are still lurking out there.  

in that context Duran just might be the signature player (non-pitcher) on this team.  His batting average is below the Mendoza line (.200) and his OPS is a miserable .602.  But guess what it is with runners in scoring position?  Try .923, 2d best among the regulars to Contreras's 1.059.  Plus he's a good fit in the best defensive outfield in MLB.  Plus he leads the Sox in SB's--as well as K's (by a big margin).  The next 3 (OPS's with runners in scoring position) are Rafaela at .883, Durbin at . 827, and Abreu at .728.  Yoshida's is .471 (!!!!!).  Narvaez's is .310.  

Honestly, I give the lion's share of the credit for this season's turnaround to CBO Breslow and manager Tracy.  Breslow completely broke Red Sox precedent by going after quality pitching ahead of hitting, so much so that the Sox now have the 3d best ERA in MLB and the 21st best team OPS.  I also think Tracy has managed those pitchers well.  As for the hitting, i'm guessing patience plus Breslow brought in Contreras and Durbin (and now Mead).  Plus he kept Duran.  

[Maxbialystock]

On 7/25/2026 at 7:45 PM, FredLynn said:

Many of the calls that weren’t challenged were off. 

I honestly haven't seen a pitcher challenge, but maybe he signals the catcher who signals the umpire.  

I agree "calls that weren't challenged were off," but whose fault is that?  if the batter, pitcher, and/or catcher can't tell a ball from a strike, it's on them.  

I think it's a good thing that 3 frequently challenged umps will retire this season, but I also vastly prefer that umps continue to call balls and strikes.  If they can't call them, get rid of them and go with an automated system for all calls.  You want "invisible umpires?"  That's how you get them.  I want highly visible umpires who, like the players, managers, and coaches, can't see that freaking rectangle.