Rays (Scholtens) vs Red Sox (Early): 5/8/26, 7:10pm

[moonslav59]

Just now, FredLynn said:

I would have been OK with signing both Alonso (or Schwarber or Bregman) AND Contreras and jettisoning Masa. His signing was a mistake. Time to cut the cord.

I could be wrong, but didn't you have Bichette on an earlier wish list?

Bregman has not been an elite bat, except for two half seasons for many years.

Schwarber's age worried me, but he was clearly the best winter bat for the short term.

I wanted Alosno, too, and I'd have been okay with Alonso & Contreras, booting Masa and trading an OF'er for a 2B/3Bman (good bat or not.)

[FredLynn]

5 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I could be wrong, but didn't you have Bichette on an earlier wish list?

Bregman has not been an elite bat, except for two half seasons for many years.

Schwarber's age worried me, but he was clearly the best winter bat for the short term.

I wanted Alosno, too, and I'd have been okay with Alonso & Contreras, booting Masa and trading an OF'er for a 2B/3Bman (good bat or not.)

Bichette would have been an improvement over the three stiffs we ended up with. I would have been OK with Contreras and Bichette but I would have preferred Schwarber or Alonso instead. Just look at who we ended up with: three stiffs and a good but not a great player. The FO is too cheap to really make an investment in winning a ring. It will never happen again under Henry's watch.

[moonslav59]

1 minute ago, FredLynn said:

Bichette would have been an improvement over the three stiffs we ended up with. I would have been OK with Contreras and Bichette but I would have preferred Schwarber or Alonso instead. Just look at who we ended up with: three stiffs and a good but not a great player. The FO is too cheap to really make an investment in winning a ring. It will never happen again under Henry's watch.

Okay, so say we signed Bichette not Suarez and made all the same trades, minus Durbin's.

We'd still suck.

You'd still call them the flops.

You'd still say Brez and Henry need to go.

Right?

[FredLynn]

5 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Okay, so say we signed Bichette not Suarez and made all the same trades, minus Durbin's.

We'd still suck.

You'd still call them the flops.

You'd still say Brez and Henry need to go.

Right?

Again: its not a case of Suarez/Contreras OR Bichette/Schwarber/Alonso/Bregman (preferably Alonso or Schwarber): all were available. Getting three stiffs? Not OK. So yes, Henry and BresLOW should go. All it would have costed is $$$. Henry is a billionaire and the team takes in a LOT of money. There simply is no real committment to winning.

[moonslav59]

9 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

Again: its not a case of Suarez/Contreras OR Bichette/Schwarber/Alonso/Bregman (preferably Alonso or Schwarber): all were available. Getting three stiffs? Not OK. So yes, Henry and BresLOW should go. All it would have costed is $$$. Henry is a billionaire and the team takes in a LOT of money. There simply is no real committment to winning.

I'm not following. You call the guys you wanted "stiffs" or did I miss something.

Okay, not instead of Ranger Suarez.

Ranger, Willson plus one from Bregman/Bichette would still not have been okay with you.

Sub Alonso or Schwarber for one, and still no?

[notin]

1 hour ago, Old Red said:

I don’t think comparing Alonso to the Con Man is the same as comparing Story to Gwynn.

Or understand the point he was making…

[moonslav59]

1 minute ago, notin said:

Or understand the point he was making…

No hope for that ever happening.

[notin]

23 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

Bichette would have been an improvement over the three stiffs we ended up with. I would have been OK with Contreras and Bichette but I would have preferred Schwarber or Alonso instead. Just look at who we ended up with: three stiffs and a good but not a great player. The FO is too cheap to really make an investment in winning a ring. It will never happen again under Henry's watch.

Bichette should have been an improvement.  To date, he’s been a platinum-coated Durbin with diamonds where his defense should be.

Contreras is as good as Alonso, but is a bit older.  So maybe some age regression?  But if it doesn’t happen this year, it’s probably someone else’s problem.  Can’t say that about Alonso…

[FredLynn]

9 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I'm not following. You call the guys you wanted "stiffs" or did I miss something.

Okay, not instead of Ranger Suarez.

Ranger, Willson plus one from Bregman/Bichette would still not have been okay with you.

Sub Alonso or Schwarber for one, and still no?

The stiffs are Durbin, IKF, and Gaspar. I would have been ok with Ranger+Contreras AND the other Suarez or Schwarber or Alonso. Less ok with Bichette or Bregman though even they would have been an improvement. All it would have costed is $$. 

[FredLynn]

3 minutes ago, notin said:

Bichette should have been an improvement.  To date, he’s been a platinum-coated Durbin with diamonds where his defense should be.

Contreras is as good as Alonso, but is a bit older.  So maybe some age regression?  But if it doesn’t happen this year, it’s probably someone else’s problem.  Can’t say that about Alonso…

By the end of the year Bichette will have outperformed Durbin, who is terrible offensively.

[JoeBrady]

1 hour ago, Old Red said:

I don’t think comparing Alonso to the Con Man is the same as comparing Story to Gwynn.

In the sense that one compares strictly HRs to all-around hitting, they are similar.  We know that OPS is more closely related to scoring than HRs are.  More of either is good, but more OPS, and specifically, more OBP, is what results in higher scoring.

[moonslav59]

21 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

The stiffs are Durbin, IKF, and Gaspar. I would have been ok with Ranger+Contreras AND the other Suarez or Schwarber or Alonso. Less ok with Bichette or Bregman though even they would have been an improvement. All it would have costed is $$. 

We'd still suck with many combos you'd have been okay with.

[moonslav59]

21 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

By the end of the year Bichette will have outperformed Durbin, who is terrible offensively.

In hindsight BLowe was the best solution.

BLowe, Contreras, R Suarez & Gray.

Adding Schwarber, Okamoto or Murakami to those 4 might have made us not suck.

[Old Red]

50 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

Again: it’s not a case of Suarez/Contreras OR Bichette/Schwarber/Alonso/Bregman (preferably Alonso or Schwarber): all were available. Getting three stiffs? Not OK. So yes, Henry and BresLOW should go. All it would have costed is $$$. Henry is a billionaire and the team takes in a LOT of money. There simply is no real committment to winning.

Fred they just don’t get your point. Even though you’ve explained it many times on why you say JH is cheap It just goes right over their heads. As I said before if you say JH is cheap 1000 times one of them will come back, and say 1000 back is not, is not, is not.They not only don’t get your point, but it’s a point well taken.😉

[FredLynn]

20 minutes ago, Old Red said:

Fred they just don’t get your point. Even though you’ve explained it many times on why you say JH is cheap It just goes right over their heads. As I said before if you say JH is cheap 1000 times one of them will come back, and say 1000 back is not, is not, is not.They not only don’t get your point, but it’s a point well taken.😉

Thanks

Maybe we would still suck if we had added Schwarber or Alonso, but it would have demonstrated that the cheapskate owner was at least trying to win. The way it worked out it demonstrates that he’s in it only to make the most money possible while lying to the fans about his priorities.

[moonslav59]

2 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

Thanks

Maybe we would still suck if we had added Schwarber or Alonso, but it would have demonstrated that the cheapskate owner was at least trying to win. The way it worked out it demonstrates that he’s in it only to make the most money possible while lying to the fans about his priorities.

Just about everybody thinks JH should spend more.

The 4-5 year stretch before this recent uptick was such a gut punch, that the uptick doesn't even bring us back to even.

It's encouraging to me to see the uptick, but we needed and still need more. We also need to make better choices when we do spend, but that is not easy to do, when  the odds are against most big signings being productive.

I'm not sure it's a "lie," because it's hard to know if these guys actually believe their words or not. I think 2021's near miss got these guys believing winning is possible without new spending.

[Old Red]

4 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

Thanks

Maybe we would still suck if we had added Schwarber or Alonso, but it would have demonstrated that the cheapskate owner was at least trying to win. The way it worked out it demonstrates that he’s in it only to make the most money possible while lying to the fans about his priorities.

As usual good points, which I doubt they will get again.

[notin]

5 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

Thanks

Maybe we would still suck if we had added Schwarber or Alonso, but it would have demonstrated that the cheapskate owner was at least trying to win. The way it worked out it demonstrates that he’s in it only to make the most money possible while lying to the fans about his priorities.

Thank you.  I’ve been saying for years that free agency is all about PR and the only reason any team should overspend for aging players is because fans equate it to commitment to winning…

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, FredLynn said:

By the end of the year Bichette will have outperformed Durbin, who is terrible offensively.

Bichette could hit his career numbers and still not be worth that deal.

We should not spend huge money on players not even close to being elite batters.

He's not a good defender either. At least Bregman can play plus defense.

[notin]

59 minutes ago, Old Red said:

Fred they just don’t get your point. Even though you’ve explained it many times on why you say JH is cheap It just goes right over their heads. As I said before if you say JH is cheap 1000 times one of them will come back, and say 1000 back is not, is not, is not.They not only don’t get your point, but it’s a point well taken.😉

Hmmm… maybe no one takes his point seriously because the Sox added $65mill in payroll his off-season and he keeps mentioning Mickey Gasper?

[moonslav59]

17 minutes ago, notin said:

Thank you.  I’ve been saying for years that free agency is all about PR and the only reason any team should overspend for aging players is because fans equate it to commitment to winning…

The bar was set so low with the lack of new spending since 2019, and much of the spending was on 1-2 year contracts, which almost by definition limits the quality of the signings or is based on high risk signings of former good/great players coming off injuries.

Since the bar was set and maintained at such a low position for years, the $40M uptick in spending was and is still not enough, but ignoring it happened is something that does not need to happen to justify the point that JH is still nto spending enough.

We are spending significantly more. It's still not enough. Both statements can be true, and aI believe they are. I'm fine with anyone disagreeing, but neglecting to at least mention the significant uptick in spending seems like an intentional choice made.

The two semi-large contracts Bloom gave out were mere drops in the bucket within the context of lost contracts since 2019. The recent signings and extensions blow Blooms "drops in the bucket" away, even counting the Devers dump.

To me, the big question is where do we go from here. Was this recent blip just an attempt to placate fans or a sign that spending will continue to increase until we get to top 5 competitiveness. I'm not suggesting that will happen. I have extreme doubts like most of us. I have no idea what JH has planned for next winter.

He may still believe we can win without major spending. He may know we can't win without spending more and "lie" about his beliefs. To me, that doesn't matter as much as what he chooses to do: spend or not.

Then, the next worry is that if he does allow major spending, can Brez beat the odds?

The Suarez signing and trades for big contracts like Gray and Contreras seem to be good ones, so far, but none of those three are really major contractual outlays. The Crochet extension was and is, but that's the only real major outlay since the Devers extension thatw as quickly undone with his recent dump deal.

This season is not over, and not because the Sox are showing hope or promise, but because the AL sucks about as badly as ever. The AL sucking should not take Brez and JH off the hook, for sure, and we need to play better to get to a point where we can actually believe a couple big winter additions can get us to top 5 status again.

If we don't show some life, especially with our young talent, it might not even matter.

[moonslav59]

1 minute ago, notin said:

Hmmm… maybe no one takes his point seriously because the Sox added $65mill in payroll his off-season and he keeps mentioning Mickey Gasper?

I take his points seriously, but do see some points that are up for debate, and he seems to ignore the major uptick in spending, much of which will be seen in later years as these extensions start increasing the yearly budgets. The Suarez contract and all of the young kid extensions will show large increases in spending going forward.

Of course, if JH chooses to not replace lost contracts like Story, Masa, Gray and others, then Fred can or might be proven right, but for now, the spending has increased despite the Devers dump.

[FredLynn]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

Just about everybody thinks JH should spend more.

The 4-5 year stretch before this recent uptick was such a gut punch, that the uptick doesn't even bring us back to even.

It's encouraging to me to see the uptick, but we needed and still need more. We also need to make better choices when we do spend, but that is not easy to do, when  the odds are against most big signings being productive.

I'm not sure it's a "lie," because it's hard to know if these guys actually believe their words or not. I think 2021's near miss got these guys believing winning is possible without new spending.

Henry knows exactly what he is doing. If he can still attract a full park while spending less he makes more money. He referred to the franchise as “an asset” rather than a team. And that’s the way he treats it: a money making machine, all the while lying to the fans about his priorities. He thinks he’s fooling us, but astute fans see right through his lies. Mind you I’m not claiming he doesn’t have the right to make as much money as possible from his franchise-but we have the right to call him out on it too. And lately the media has been doing just that. Good for them!

[FredLynn]

39 minutes ago, notin said:

Hmmm… maybe no one takes his point seriously because the Sox added $65mill in payroll his off-season and he keeps mentioning Mickey Gasper?

You like the Gasper signing? How about the signing of the other train wrecks, IKF and Durbin instead of Schwarber or Alonso or E Suarez? I don’t. And I’m right! The proof is their record.

[notin]

35 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I take his points seriously, but do see some points that are up for debate, and he seems to ignore the major uptick in spending, much of which will be seen in later years as these extensions start increasing the yearly budgets. The Suarez contract and all of the young kid extensions will show large increases in spending going forward.

Of course, if JH chooses to not replace lost contracts like Story, Masa, Gray and others, then Fred can or might be proven right, but for now, the spending has increased despite the Devers dump.

It seems like a lot of “spend on the best available” crap.  Get good players, not above average hitters you’re passing off as “elite” ball players just because their old teams didn’t want them back…

[moonslav59]

Just now, FredLynn said:

Henry knows exactly what he is doing. If he can still attract a full park while spending less he makes more money. He referred to the franchise as “an asset” rather than a team. And that’s the way he treats it: a money making machine, all the while lying to the fans about his priorities. He thinks he’s fooling us, but astute fans see right through his lies. Mind you I’m not claiming he doesn’t have the right to make as much money as possible from his franchise-but we have the right to call him out on it too. And lately the media has been doing just that. Good for them!

I think every owner views their team as an asset. They are just not obtuse enough to say it outloud.

I see JH as being more committed to spending than any past Sox owner, which isn't saying much.

Of course we can and should call him out for not spending more, but I don't see the need to neglect the fact that he started spending significantly more.

Yes, context is needed on that statement, as he lowered the bar so low, a significant uptick barely gets us near where we were in 2019.

[moonslav59]

1 minute ago, FredLynn said:

You like the Gasper signing? 

It wasn't a signing, and certainly did not prevent another addition. We claimed him off waivers and pay him the minimum.

Every team adds players like this and hope they never need to call them up.

[notin]

Just now, FredLynn said:

You like the Gasper signing? How about the signing of the other train wrecks, IKF and Durbin instead of Schwarber or Alonso or E Suarez? I don’t. And I’m right! The proof is their record.

Right.  It came down to IKF or Schwarber - WE CAN ONLY GET ONE!!  the biggest sham since Dombrowski blatantly chose Jhoulys Chacin over Bryce Harper and Manny Machado!

[Old Red]

6 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

You like the Gasper signing? How about the signing of the other train wrecks, IKF and Durbin instead of Schwarber or Alonso or E Suarez? I don’t. And I’m right! The proof is their record.

I told you they didn’t get it, and they still don’t. Bregman was plan A, and Alonso was the first choice to along with plan A. The Red Sox got neither, and went to cheaper options. It’s really not that difficult to understand?