It's Time to Can Cora

[mvp 78]

3 minutes ago, Jasonbay44 said:

Which is odd to me. It’s not like Abreu is an uncommon last name, especially in baseball. Most my life there has been an all star with the last name Abreu in the league and multiple relief pitchers and such. Jose Abreu, Bobby Abreu, Bryan Abreu, Albert Abreu, etc. 

Per bref:

 

[Jasonbay44]

7 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Per bref:

 

Kind of funny that right when Bobby Abreu’s career ended, Jose Abreu’s began. Now that Jose Abreu’s career is ending, maybe the torch is being passed to the next great Abreu, Wilyer!

[mvp 78]

21 minutes ago, Jasonbay44 said:

Kind of funny that right when Bobby Abreu’s career ended, Jose Abreu’s began. Now that Jose Abreu’s career is ending, maybe the torch is being passed to the next great Abreu, Wilyer!

We are truly in the golden era of Abreus. 

[Dalas21000]

3 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

Good teams win. Mediocre teams play .500 ball. That's just where we're at. 

Yeah and I think we are mediocre due to some of the decisions Cora has made

[Dalas21000]

3 hours ago, Bellhorn04 said:

I'm aghast at how bad our pitching is, but I'm looking more at Breslow and Bailey than at Cora.

Breslow and Bailey were supposed to really improve the pitching, and it just isn't happening.

I think they could do a little better with adding talent but I also think good coaches do the best with what they have...Look at how Toronto beat us in a close game by playing their closer 2 innings against us in extras....Why can't we do that with Chapman?

[mvp 78]

1 minute ago, Dalas21000 said:

I think they could do a little better with adding talent but I also think good coaches do the best with what they have...Look at how Toronto beat us in a close game by playing their closer 2 innings against us in extras....Why can't we do that with Chapman?

If we pitch Chapman for two inning one game, who do we trust to come in the next to be the closer? 

[Bellhorn04]

2 minutes ago, Dalas21000 said:

I think they could do a little better with adding talent but I also think good coaches do the best with what they have...Look at how Toronto beat us in a close game by playing their closer 2 innings against us in extras....Why can't we do that with Chapman?

Interesting that you mention that.

I looked it up and the Jays closer, Hoffman, since that 2 inning outing against us, has given up 16 earned runs in 14.1 innings. 

[Dalas21000]

4 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

If we pitch Chapman for two inning one game, who do we trust to come in the next to be the closer? 

True, I mean i'm hoping we can get it done in 2 innings but yeah...I hear that

Edited June 10, 2025 by Dalas21000
Miswording

[Dalas21000]

7 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

If we pitch Chapman for two inning one game, who do we trust to come in the next to be the closer? 

I think Hendricks was supposed to be that guy, although he doesn't seem to be pitching that well and is injured again I believe

[mvp 78]

19 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Interesting that you mention that.

I looked it up and the Jays closer, Hoffman, since that 2 inning outing against us, has given up 16 earned runs in 14.1 innings. 

Yuck

[mvp 78]

13 minutes ago, Dalas21000 said:

I think Hendricks was supposed to be that guy, although he doesn't seem to be pitching that well and is injured again I believe

It was going to be Hendriks or Slaten, but both are on the IL. Whitlock has not looked good enough to close. I guess Weissert? Yay? That's why he's not going 2 innings IMO. 

[mvp 78]

Since the start of 2021, he's only gone over 1 inning 4 times. He's just a 1 inning pitcher it looks like. 

[Maxbialystock]

23 hours ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

I don't really care about fielding percentage, but I really care about defense. My post was in reply to Max, who always tries to separate and stress hitting and pitching over defense. 

The whole idea is that pitching and defense are directly connected -- they both happen on one side of the ball in an attempt to prevent the offense from scoring.

And the correct ruling on that Garcia grounder you described should have been a fielder's choice, not a hit. Semien chose to pursue Meidroth instead of immediately making a throw that would've beaten Garcia to 1B. I realize sometimes it goes the other way, like if a shortstop dives in the hole to make a stop and only has one chance at an out by throwing to 2B or 3B to force a lead runner; if he gets the out, it's a fielder's choice, but if everyone's safe, the batter gets a hit because there was no way he was getting thrown out at 1B.

Guilty as charged.  I love good defense and agree it can make a difference.  

And that's why I keep reminding you and everyone else that the Sox defense is above average at 4 positions--CF, RF, 3B, and C.  Rafaela, Abreu, Bregman/Mayer, and Narvaez are all ranked in the top 5 in DWAR's for their positions.  That's half the defense.  I think Duran is adequate in LF--his DWAR is 0.0.  And I like Story at SS because he is steady, smart, and good on double plays--the Sox are ranked 4th in DP's per game, and DP's are a pitcher's best friend.  The problems are primarily at 2b and 1b.  

And  don't forget that most teams and mangers think a player's OPS is more important than his fielding percentage or DWAR.  CF and SS are the two positions where some good defense can keep a player in the lineup.    

Or try this.  The best Sox team ever was probably the 2018 Sox.  These are some of that team's DWAR's:  Nunez -1.4, Martinez -1.4, Bogaerts -1.0, Devers -0.9, Benintendi -0.6, Moreland -0.5.  The good defenders in 2018 were Betts +1.8, Leon (87 games) +0.9, JBJ +0.4.  

Meanwhile the 2018 Sox team ERA was ranked 8th and the total runs scored by the offense was ranked 1st.  

To me it's astounding that this year's Sox are ranked 4th in runs scored, but they are, despite the fact that the Sox hitters are ranked 2d in K's.    But the team ERA is ranked 23d.  You can blame some of that on the defense, but the real problem is with the pitching where the Sox have one good starter and maybe 3 good relievers.  

Since this thread is about Cora, I think he's still an excellent manager and that the major problems have been with the CBO's and JH's intent to reduce the payroll.  

And this.  The most damaging thing that's happened to the Sox since Breslow took over as CBO is when he dumped Sale and picked up Giolito.  Had he kept Sale and stayed away from Giolito, chances are the Sox make the postseason last year and this year (provided he also hired Crochet). 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

4 hours ago, Maxbialystock said:

Guilty as charged.  I love good defense and agree it can make a difference.  

And that's why I keep reminding you and everyone else that the Sox defense is above average at 4 positions--CF, RF, 3B, and C.  Rafaela, Abreu, Bregman/Mayer, and Narvaez are all ranked in the top 5 in DWAR's for their positions.  That's half the defense.  I think Duran is adequate in LF--his DWAR is 0.0.  And I like Story at SS because he is steady, smart, and good on double plays--the Sox are ranked 4th in DP's per game, and DP's are a pitcher's best friend.  The problems are primarily at 2b and 1b.  

And  don't forget that most teams and mangers think a player's OPS is more important than his fielding percentage or DWAR.  CF and SS are the two positions where some good defense can keep a player in the lineup.    

Or try this.  The best Sox team ever was probably the 2018 Sox.  These are some of that team's DWAR's:  Nunez -1.4, Martinez -1.4, Bogaerts -1.0, Devers -0.9, Benintendi -0.6, Moreland -0.5.  The good defenders in 2018 were Betts +1.8, Leon (87 games) +0.9, JBJ +0.4.  

Meanwhile the 2018 Sox team ERA was ranked 8th and the total runs scored by the offense was ranked 1st.  

To me it's astounding that this year's Sox are ranked 4th in runs scored, but they are, despite the fact that the Sox hitters are ranked 2d in K's.    But the team ERA is ranked 23d.  You can blame some of that on the defense, but the real problem is with the pitching where the Sox have one good starter and maybe 3 good relievers.  

Since this thread is about Cora, I think he's still an excellent manager and that the major problems have been with the CBO's and JH's intent to reduce the payroll.  

And this.  The most damaging thing that's happened to the Sox since Breslow took over as CBO is when he dumped Sale and picked up Giolito.  Had he kept Sale and stayed away from Giolito, chances are the Sox make the postseason last year and this year (provided he also hired Crochet). 

Not arguing about any of your points, just some of the numbers.

Assume your using bb-ref for dWAR, since I don't think Fangraphs does it? 2018 dWAR leaders: Betts 1.7, JBJ 0.8, Moreland 0.5, Beni 0.3, Bogey 0.1. All the rest were zeroes or negatives, with a team season total of 0.2.

Eeegads, the 2025 Red Sox team season total dWAR is also 0.2! Here are our positives: Rafaela 1.3, Bregman 0.8, Narvaez 0.8, Hamilton 0.6, Abreu 0.5, Wong 0.3, Story 0.2, Mayer 0.2, Sabol 0.1.

This whole dWAR stat may be overrated... how in the world is '25 Devers possibly a -0.6? Was he too negative being too defensive about playing the field? If he never steps onto the diamond without wearing a batting helmet, doesn't that literally make him -- some will like this -- a total zero?

[mvp 78]

14 hours ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

Not arguing about any of your points, just some of the numbers.

Assume your using bb-ref for dWAR, since I don't think Fangraphs does it? 2018 dWAR leaders: Betts 1.7, JBJ 0.8, Moreland 0.5, Beni 0.3, Bogey 0.1. All the rest were zeroes or negatives, with a team season total of 0.2.

Eeegads, the 2025 Red Sox team season total dWAR is also 0.2! Here are our positives: Rafaela 1.3, Bregman 0.8, Narvaez 0.8, Hamilton 0.6, Abreu 0.5, Wong 0.3, Story 0.2, Mayer 0.2, Sabol 0.1.

This whole dWAR stat may be overrated... how in the world is '25 Devers possibly a -0.6? Was he too negative being too defensive about playing the field? If he never steps onto the diamond without wearing a batting helmet, doesn't that literally make him -- some will like this -- a total zero?

With Devers, he's sitting at the top of the dugout and glaring at his teammates while they are fielding (not a leader!). This is causing a lot of mental issues to play out on the field. The calculation of dWAR encompasses this problematic behavior from Raffy (bad hombre). 

[mvp 78]

[mvp 78]

[Kimmi]

4 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

I remember how much criticism Francona used to get from Red Sox fans when he managed the Red Sox.  I just think that criticizing your team's manager is a rite of passage of being a baseball fan.

[mvp 78]

16 minutes ago, Kimmi said:

I remember how much criticism Francona used to get from Red Sox fans when he managed the Red Sox.  I just think that criticizing your team's manager is a rite of passage of being a baseball fan.

FranCOMA

[Bellhorn04]

3 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

FranCOMA

Imagine how hard some people would have been on him without the 2 rings and 3 ALCS appearances! 😝

Mind you some of the same geniuses who called Tito that also called Theo things like Boy Blunder and Ineptstein.

[mvp 78]

37 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Imagine how hard some people would have been on him without the 2 rings and 3 ALCS appearances! 😝

Mind you some of the same geniuses who called Tito that also called Theo things like Boy Blunder and Ineptstein.

Until he signed Crawford!!!

[dgalehouse]

Some baseball fans are extremely entitled and very obnoxious when things don't go the way they want. They go after the players all the time, so managers are not going to be exempt from the vitriol either. 

[Kimmi]

22 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

FranCOMA

Exactly.

I was very happy to see that Tito's health was good enough to allow him to return to managing.  I am pulling for the Reds, except when they play the Red Sox.

[mvp 78]

1 minute ago, Kimmi said:

Exactly.

I was very happy to see that Tito's health was good enough to allow him to return to managing.  I am pulling for the Reds, except when they play the Red Sox.

When ownership turned on Tito and Theo after they left, it was so low. I think that really turned me off forever on them. I'll be happy for more championships, but I'll never be a John Henry fan because of what they put in the Globe. 

[Kimmi]

12 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

When ownership turned on Tito and Theo after they left, it was so low. I think that really turned me off forever on them. I'll be happy for more championships, but I'll never be a John Henry fan because of what they put in the Globe. 

I guess I have forgiven Henry for all that, but yeah, I can't really disagree with you.

Tito and Theo were the best, IMO.

[Dalas21000]

On 6/10/2025 at 12:35 PM, mvp 78 said:

It was going to be Hendriks or Slaten, but both are on the IL. Whitlock has not looked good enough to close. I guess Weissert? Yay? That's why he's not going 2 innings IMO. 

Then they trade Devers....even better 👎 

 

[mvp 78]

1 minute ago, Dalas21000 said:

Then they trade Devers....even better 👎 

 

They really know how to treat fans right. 

[TheSplinteredSplendor]

Red Sox Tensions: Alex Cora Sent 'Deliberate' Message to Front Office, per Report - Newsweek

[Bellhorn04]

Cora is obviously doing a brilliant job guiding the team through this period of turmoil and getting them back in the hunt by taking 9 of 12 from the Yanks, Rays and Mariners.

[TheSplinteredSplendor]

Ranking the next 4 MLB managers who could be fired out of desperation

1. Boston Red Sox manager Alex Cora

The Boston Red Sox need to rip the band-aid off that is manager Alex Cora. I understand that he won a World Series here in 2018, but that was seven years ago. In the years since, he has been tied to the Houston Astros' sign-stealing scandal and been ousted for a year, only to come back in 2021. Yes, the 2021 team did make it to the ALCS, but the last four seasons have been varying shades of rubbish.

He seems like a manager who stumbles into luck every so often. From afar, I do not think he does a great job of managing a clubhouse, nor do I think he does a great job of empowering his younger players to make a difference. There may not be a manager in baseball who has less of a finger on the pulse of the team he is managing than Cora. I would be utterly stunned if he got to manage Boston next season.