Red Sox (Bello) vs Yankees (Cole): 9/14/24, 1:05pm

[FredLynn]

Just now, Jasonbay44 said:

You mean ALCS MVP, gold glove winning, World Series champion Jackie Bradley Jr? Yeah who wants a guy like that hitting 9th. 

If he was so great why is he now relegated to the Long Island Ducks? 
Answer: he was a disaster with a bat in his hands. Just like Rafaela.

[FredLynn]

1 minute ago, Jasonbay44 said:

Also JBJ Is like 35. He’s just old and washed in baseball years. He was a very solid player in his prime. 

He had a couple of good years with a bat. That’s probably more than Rafaela will ever have-unless he learns not to swing at pitches a couple of feet outside the zone.

[illinoisredsox]

14 minutes ago, Maxbialystock said:

I can't resist asking this question.  Bello is 25 and earns maybe $1M, which is actually pretty good.  He's going up against Cole, who has a lot more experience and makes $36M/year.  We are in the 5th inning, and the Sox, whose hitting recently has been suspect, are leading 5-1 with the bases loaded and just 1 out.  

Don't you think your standard for Bello is just a tiny bit high?  

Not sure I understand the question.  My point was over his first 2-2 1/2 years, there were many times when Bello melted down after an error or a missed call by an ump and allowed big innings.  That inning was the type that often resulted in a 4 or 5 run inning earlier in his career.  It hasn’t happened much in the last month or so.  He’s buckled down and made pitches to get out of jams, a sign of a maturing pitcher.

The next step for Bello would be to become efficient enough to regularly go 7 innings.  5 leaves too much up to the pen.

 

As for Cole, every pitcher has a team he can beat by just throwing his glove out there. Each pitcher has a “who’s your Daddy” team.  The Red Sox have been the latter for Cole, going back to his Houston days but especially since he’s come to NY.

The A’s have been that team for Bello so far in his career.

[notin]

11 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

Good article about his total lack of plate discipline on this forum. You should read it. We got rid of someone like him not long ago-JBJ. I think he’s out of baseball now.

Correction: JBJ is playing for the Long Island Ducks. Maybe they could use another good defensive player.

 

Yeah let’s highlight plate discipline and the Long Island Ducks and ignore that he had an 11 year MLB career that included a Gold Glove, an All Star selection, and an ALCS MVP.

How did he ever make the Ducks? (Sarcasm)

[illinoisredsox]

18 minutes ago, Jasonbay44 said:

Yeah, the 23 year old, gold glove level fielder with a near 3 WAR is useless. Who needs those guys???

Fred basically posts the same tired tripe ad nauseum.  Not worth engaging.

[notin]

10 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

If he was so great why is he now relegated to the Long Island Ducks? 
Answer: he was a disaster with a bat in his hands. Just like Rafaela.

He’s old.  Not everyone plays into their mid 30s. 
 

Are you seriously clinging to the Long Island Ducks after his ELEVEN YEAR MLB CAREER.  Believe it or not, that’s not a short career and not a given for every player.

Are you trying to make people take you less seriously?

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Bello missing Judge completely shows a definite lack of command.

Very good start by Bello.

[illinoisredsox]

5 minutes ago, notin said:

He’s old.  Not everyone plays into their mid 30s. 
 

Are you seriously clinging to the Long Island Ducks after his ELEVEN YEAR MLB CAREER.  Believe it or not, that’s not a short career and not a given for every player.

Are you trying to make people take you less seriously?

Taking Fred less seriously would be metaphysically impossible.

[illinoisredsox]

Now it’s time for our daily game of bullpen roulette.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Just now, illinoisredsox said:

Now it’s time for our daily game of bullpen roulette.

SOX BP roulette is where there are 5 bullets in the chambers.

[FredLynn]

16 minutes ago, notin said:

Yeah let’s highlight plate discipline and the Long Island Ducks and ignore that he had an 11 year MLB career that included a Gold Glove, an All Star selection, and an ALCS MVP.

How did he ever make the Ducks? (Sarcasm)

Nobody is doubting his amazing defensive ability. Just like Rafaela. Great defensively. I don’t think Rafaela will even achieve the few good offensive seasons JBJ had. Not unless his plate discipline greatly and miraculously improve. We don’t need a no hit CFer. Unfortunately they signed him to an extension meaning he’s going to play every day, displacing someone more valuable to the team. 
Read Fox’s article.

[FredLynn]

2 minutes ago, SPLENDIDSPLINTER said:

SOX BP roulette is where there are 5 bullets in the chambers.

Seven 

[FredLynn]

20 minutes ago, illinoisredsox said:

Fred basically posts the same tired tripe ad nauseum.  Not worth engaging.

Can’t handle the truth is how I interpret your post 

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

The SOX were lucky that Cole was scheduled to pitch in this series.

[illinoisredsox]

This would not be the worst time for a 3 inning save by Winckowski.

Edit - Josh throwing his way out that possibility. 

[Bellhorn04]

The way our pen has been going, Cora must sometimes feel like a man playing Russian Roulette with 4 bullets in the gun.

[notin]

3 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

The way our pen has been going, Cora must sometimes feel like a man playing Russian Roulette with 4 bullets in the gun.

Sometimes Cora manages the bullpen like he’s trying to prove he doesn’t have good relievers…

[Jasonbay44]

46 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

If he was so great why is he now relegated to the Long Island Ducks? 
Answer: he was a disaster with a bat in his hands. Just like Rafaela.

Because he’s 35, and most 35 year old outfielders whose best assets are speed and defense, tend to decline as they get older. Are you really hating on a guy who won an ALCS MVP and made some of the greatest catches we’ve ever seen in center field? Alright then.

Rafaela is only 23, and hitting bottom of the order and is an outstanding defender in center, benching him right now does absolutely nothing to help his plate discipline or make him better in the long run. 
 

He has all 5 tools, and if he puts it all together the sky is the limit. If he doesn’t? We have a gold glove center fielder who bats near bottom of the order and comes up with timely hits quite often. He is nowhere near the biggest issue on the team, nor should they bench him. 

[Maxbialystock]

27 minutes ago, illinoisredsox said:

Not sure I understand the question.  My point was over his first 2-2 1/2 years, there were many times when Bello melted down after an error or a missed call by an ump and allowed big innings.  That inning was the type that often resulted in a 4 or 5 run inning earlier in his career.  It hasn’t happened much in the last month or so.  He’s buckled down and made pitches to get out of jams, a sign of a maturing pitcher.

The next step for Bello would be to become efficient enough to regularly go 7 innings.  5 leaves too much up to the pen.

 

As for Cole, every pitcher has a team he can beat by just throwing his glove out there. Each pitcher has a “who’s your Daddy” team.  The Red Sox have been the latter for Cole, going back to his Houston days but especially since he’s come to NY.

The A’s have been that team for Bello so far in his career.

7 freaking innings????!!!!!  Nobody currently meets that standard.   In fact, the MLB trend seems to be go to the bullpen for the final 3 or 4 innings because statisticians insist the 3d time through a batting order is hazardous and the 4th time even more so.  Half of every MLB roster are pitchers, 13, and of those at least 8 are relievers.  

The simple fact is that Breslow, despite his impressive degree from Yale and 12 years as a MLB pitcher, seems to have ignored the importance of the Sox bullpen.  His big offseason moves, we now know, were to destroy the rotation by dumping Sale and signing Giolito.  Nevertheless, the Sox rotation is viable right now largely because of Chaim Bloom.  And the bullpen stinks because of Breslow--and certainly not because the Sox starters don't routinely go 7 freaking innings.  

[Jasonbay44]

20 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

Nobody is doubting his amazing defensive ability. Just like Rafaela. Great defensively. I don’t think Rafaela will even achieve the few good offensive seasons JBJ had. Not unless his plate discipline greatly and miraculously improve. We don’t need a no hit CFer. Unfortunately they signed him to an extension meaning he’s going to play every day, displacing someone more valuable to the team. 
Read Fox’s article.

Aw yes, because Fox articles are always correct. Fox once published an article calling the Red Sox racist because their team looked “very Caucasian” after trading Manny Ramirez. 

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

1 minute ago, Jasonbay44 said:

Aw yes, because Fox articles are always correct. Fox once published an article calling the Red Sox racist because their team looked “very Caucasian” after trading Manny Ramirez. 

It should be spelled Faux.

[FredLynn]

13 minutes ago, Jasonbay44 said:

Because he’s 35, and most 35 year old outfielders whose best assets are speed and defense, tend to decline as they get older. Are you really hating on a guy who won an ALCS MVP and made some of the greatest catches we’ve ever seen in center field? Alright then.

Rafaela is only 23, and hitting bottom of the order and is an outstanding defender in center, benching him right now does absolutely nothing to help his plate discipline or make him better in the long run. 
 

He has all 5 tools, and if he puts it all together the sky is the limit. If he doesn’t? We have a gold glove center fielder who bats near bottom of the order and comes up with timely hits quite often. He is nowhere near the biggest issue on the team, nor should they bench him. 

Bradley couldn’t make contact most seasons. That’s why, despite his obvious defensive abilities he was jettisoned from every team he played for-starting with this team. 

[notin]

22 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

Bradley couldn’t make contact most seasons. That’s why, despite his obvious defensive abilities he was jettisoned from every team he played for-starting with this team. 

Yeah the Sox rushed him out the door after a brief trial period of a mere 8 years…

[Maxbialystock]

1 hour ago, FredLynn said:

If he was so great why is he now relegated to the Long Island Ducks? 
Answer: he was a disaster with a bat in his hands. Just like Rafaela.

JBJ took over in CF in 2014, the year Ellsbury went to the Yankees.  He couldn't hit--his OPS was .531-- but he sure could field and throw--and consequently went back and forth between Boston and Pawtucket that season.  But in 2015 and 2016 his OPS's were over .800 and in 2017 and 2018 were acceptable at .726 and .717 because he was so valuable in the outfield.  

To me Rafaela is a different kettle of fish.  For one thing, he's pretty darn good SS as well as centerfielder.  On this Sox team he has the best among the outfielders.  Unlike JBJ, he's also fast afoot, especially on the basepaths.  Plus, despite the OPS of .675, he is 3d on the Sox in rbi's with 70 (11 more than O'Neill and his 30 dingers), 4th in doubles, 4th in runs scored, and tied for 4th in dingers with 15.  Oh, and he is 2d on the Sox in games played.  Not too shabby for his first real season (last year he played in just 28 games) in MLB.  

I do not disagree he has a terrible grasp of the strike zone, but I do not think it's unthinkable he will improve in that.  

[notin]

Sox at least bounce back after disheartening loss last night…

[Maxbialystock]

Just now, Maxbialystock said:

JBJ took over in CF in 2014, the year Ellsbury went to the Yankees.  He couldn't hit--his OPS was .531-- but he sure could field and throw--and consequently went back and forth between Boston and Pawtucket that season.  But in 2015 and 2016 his OPS's were over .800 and in 2017 and 2018 were acceptable at .726 and .717 because he was so valuable in the outfield.  

To me Rafaela is a different kettle of fish.  For one thing, he's pretty darn good SS as well as centerfielder.  On this Sox team he has the best arm among the outfielders.  Unlike JBJ, he's also fast afoot, especially on the basepaths.  Plus, despite the OPS of .675, he is 3d on the Sox in rbi's with 70 (11 more than O'Neill and his 30 dingers), 4th in doubles, 4th in runs scored, and tied for 4th in dingers with 15.  Oh, and he is 2d on the Sox in games played.  Not too shabby for his first real season (last year he played in just 28 games) in MLB.  

I do not disagree he has a terrible grasp of the strike zone, but I do not think it's unthinkable he will improve in that.  

 

[Bellhorn04]

I think Bello must have wrapped up the 2024 E-Rod Golden Rabbit's Paw Award given annually to the Sox starter with the best run support and most fortunate W-L record.

He has been pitching a lot better, though. 

[Maxbialystock]

1 minute ago, notin said:

Sox at least bounce back after disheartening loss last night…

I see it differently,  I think the Sox overall played great in all 3 games, losing 2-1 in 10 innings in game 1, 5-4 in 9 innings in game 2--in which they had a 4-0 lead before the bullpen collapsed--and won decisively today.  

They are still not eliminated from postseason, but are now unlikely to make it.  Nevertheless, I liked what I saw in all 3 games at Yankee Stadium.  

They are 4 behind the Twins for the 3d wild card, and also 1.5 behind the Mariners and .5 behind the Tigers, pending  their (all 3 teams) game results today.  

[Maxbialystock]

5 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

I think Bello must have wrapped up the 2024 E-Rod Golden Rabbit's Paw Award given annually to the Sox starter with the best run support and most fortunate W-L record.

He has been pitching a lot better, though. 

Nicely said.  

[FredLynn]

55 minutes ago, Jasonbay44 said:

Aw yes, because Fox articles are always correct. Fox once published an article calling the Red Sox racist because their team looked “very Caucasian” after trading Manny Ramirez. 

This one is spot on. Are you claiming that Rafaela has even passable K zone recognition? He looks silly with a bat in his hands. Unless that miraculously improves he’s going to suffer the same fate as JBJ-or worse because at least Bradley had a few good years with the bat. My bet is that he will never have passable plate recognition and won’t be with the team in 4-5 years max.