Red Sox Sign Masataka Yoshida

[notin]

Most of the hope from some on here stems from a better rated farm system, which while better rated still might not be good enough any sustainable success. A lot is riding on Bello, and Casas right now.

 

What exactly is riding on Casas and Bello?

[notin]

No doubt. And I was generally fine with Bloom right up to this offseason. I thought this offseason was a colossal disappointment, even though I'm happy about the Devers extension, and the Yoshida signing, and the two big bullpen acquisitions.

 

In his 4th season, Bloom should not be putting together a team that's near the worst in baseball at run prevention.

 

Really?

 

THIS was the off-season you questioned? The one where he signed an albeit aging two time Cy Young winner? A Japanese all star and extended Devers?! Yes, Kluber isn’t working out, but most pitchers in his age bracket and with his resume are also cashing in on multiyear deals in excess of $40mill AAV.

 

Exactly who did he bring in prior to the 2020, 2021, and 2022 seasons that was supposed to get the turnstiles spinning?

[Old Red]

What exactly is riding on Casas and Bello?

 

Casas has been talked about as the next big thing for 3 years now, so if he doesn’t work out that’s not exactly a big plus going forward.

[Bellhorn04]

Really?

 

THIS was the off-season you questioned? The one where he signed an albeit aging two time Cy Young winner? A Japanese all star and extended Devers?! Yes, Kluber isn’t working out, but most pitchers in his age bracket and with his resume are also cashing in on multiyear deals in excess of $40mill AAV.

 

Exactly who did he bring in prior to the 2020, 2021, and 2022 seasons that was supposed to get the turnstiles spinning?

 

Not even sure what you're talking about. Yes, this was a big offseason, with so much money coming off the books and coming off another last place finish.

 

And I can't even believe you're bringing Kluber's Cy Youngs into it. Jeez, why didn't we sign Dallas Keuchel?

[notin]

Casas has been talked about as the next big thing for 3 years now, so if he doesn’t work out that’s not exactly a big plus going forward.

 

And that’s not the same as “a lot is riding on him.” He had a very good month of May, but no one seemed to notice. He’s actually already a pretty good ball player and demonstrating he’s a keeper. But it seems like too many focus on how he isn’t the player they want him to be and be RIGHT NOW.

 

As for Bello, he was never really hyped, never ranked by any organization and simply felt like an organizational player that exploded on to the scene a couple years ago. He’s a whole different case than Casas…

[notin]

Not even sure what you're talking about. Yes, this was a big offseason, with so much money coming off the books and coming off another last place finish.

 

And I can't even believe you're bringing Kluber's Cy Youngs into it. Jeez, why didn't we sign Dallas Keuchel?

 

Kluber’s Cy Young puts him in a different league than Martin Perez, Zack Godley, Chris Mazza, and the numerous others best described as “pitching for the sake of pitching” whose acquisitions you admit didn’t bother you as much as Kluber.

 

Heck even Wacha’s signing didn’t exactly cause ripples through the stratosphere given his recent (at the time) track record of performance and injury.

 

At the respective times of their signings, we’re you more on board with Kluber or Wacha?

[Bellhorn04]

And that’s not the same as “a lot is riding on him.” He had a very good month of May, but no one seemed to notice. He’s actually already a pretty good ball player and demonstrating he’s a keeper.

 

But he has an fWAR of -.5 and a bWAR of -.7. I'm hoping for the best, but there's no way we can say he's doing well, in spite of that good run.

[Old Red]

And that’s not the same as “a lot is riding on him.” He had a very good month of May, but no one seemed to notice. He’s actually already a pretty good ball player and demonstrating he’s a keeper. But it seems like too many focus on how he isn’t the player they want him to be and be RIGHT NOW.

 

As for Bello, he was never really hyped, never ranked by any organization and simply felt like an organizational player that exploded on to the scene a couple years ago. He’s a whole different case than Casas…

 

Very good month of May? 3 HR, and 8 RBI is a very good month? Standard is set pretty low to think that, but I guess he was so bad in April that what he did in May makes him look so good. He’s not already a pretty good ball player, and hasn’t demonstrated he’s a keeper yet. Body D had a lot better streak in 2021, and he’s no keeper. True that Bello hasn’t had the hype up until now, but now he does has the hype, and is still a work in progress.

[Bellhorn04]

At the respective times of their signings, we’re you more on board with Kluber or Wacha?

 

At the time we signed Kluber I was so desperate I would have taken just about anything.

 

But what I thought or wanted is irrelevant. Bloom rolled the dice on an old guy whose velocity is just about gone. He crapped out and it's significantly hurting this team's chances.

[Old Red]

At the time we signed Kluber I was so desperate I would have taken just about anything.

 

But what I thought or wanted is irrelevant. Bloom rolled the dice on an old guy whose velocity is just about gone. He crapped out and it's significantly hurting this team's chances.

There was a lot more upside potential with Wacha then there is with Kluber, and both are showing it.

[Bellhorn04]

There was a lot more upside potential with Wacha then there is with Kluber, and both are showing it.

 

And vastly more with Eovaldi.

[Old Red]

And vastly more with Eovaldi.

 

Like I said at the time that Bloom took the Cheapest way out.

[Bellhorn04]

Like I said at the time that Bloom took the Cheapest way out.

 

And it really pisses me off that the Red Sox wouldn't top the offers of the Rangers for Eovaldi or the Rays for Eflin. These were not big money deals by today's standards.

 

And please let's not hear again about how these guys went where they preferred to play. We all know that more money makes that go away in a hurry.

[notin]

And vastly more with Eovaldi.

 

With Eovaldi, the question isn’t upside.

[Old Red]

With Eovaldi, the question isn’t upside.

 

He still has upside compared to Kluber.

[notin]

There was a lot more upside potential with Wacha then there is with Kluber, and both are showing it.

 

Was this also true in 2022?

 

Kluber last year threw 164 IP and was worth 3.0 fWAR.

 

Wacha threw 127 IP and was worth 1.5 fWAR. In fact, Wacha’s 127 IP was his highest total since 2017. What “upside” are you talking about? He’s been a part time starting pitcher for 6 years running.

 

But he did pitch well in May. Not April. Just May.

 

Don’t confuse upside with hindsight…

[notin]

He still has upside compared to Kluber.

 

Absolute, assuming he pitches.

 

In 4 years in Boston, he topped 109 IP exactly one time. Granted, there was zero possibility of doing do in 2020. But 2019 and 2022 were certainly possible.

 

Eovaldi doesn’t stay healthy. Like Wacha, he’s hurt all the time. “Upside” doesn’t do any good if you have to wrap it up in a sling…

[Jasonbay44]

Absolute, assuming he pitches.

 

In 4 years in Boston, he topped 109 IP exactly one time. Granted, there was zero possibility of doing do in 2020. But 2019 and 2022 were certainly possible.

 

Eovaldi doesn’t stay healthy. Like Wacha, he’s hurt all the time. “Upside” doesn’t do any good if you have to wrap it up in a sling…

 

Being horrible at your job, like Kluber also doesn’t give any upside… Eovaldi pitching 1/2 the season >>>> a full season of Kluber

[Old Red]

Absolute, assuming he pitches.

 

In 4 years in Boston, he topped 109 IP exactly one time. Granted, there was zero possibility of doing do in 2020. But 2019 and 2022 were certainly possible.

 

Eovaldi doesn’t stay healthy. Like Wacha, he’s hurt all the time. “Upside” doesn’t do any good if you have to wrap it up in a sling…

 

All I care about is what’s going on at the moment. Wacha, and Evol are producing, and Kluber is not.

[notin]

And it really pisses me off that the Red Sox wouldn't top the offers of the Rangers for Eovaldi or the Rays for Eflin. These were not big money deals by today's standards.

 

And please let's not hear again about how these guys went where they preferred to play. We all know that more money makes that go away in a hurry.

 

 

And if Eovaldi hits the IL and is limited to 111 IP or less this year, will you still consider him a bad miss? He’s only topped that number of IP one time since 2016…

[notin]

All I care about is what’s going on at the moment. Wacha, and Evol are producing, and Kluber is not.

 

And will you suddenly deny either had upside if they hit the injured list? It’s not exactly foreign territory for either one.

 

And where was Wacha’s upside in April?

[Old Red]

And will you suddenly deny either had upside if they hit the injured list? It’s not exactly foreign territory for either one.

 

And where was Wacha’s upside in April?

I would’ve worried more about Sale hitting the injured list than Wacha, or Evol. Whoops he did!

[notin]

I would’ve worried more about Sale hitting the injured list than Wacha, or Evol. Whoops he did!

 

Oh I’ve been worried about that, too. But in complaints about pitchers Bloom acquired, Sale isn’t part of the conversation. Bloom inherited that questionable contract, and until Sale actually performs on it, there’s no way to unload even part of it.

 

And the fact that Sale was going to be here did make Eovaldi and Wacha more questionable acquisitions…

[Old Red]

Oh I’ve been worried about that, too. But in complaints about pitchers Bloom acquired, Sale isn’t part of the conversation. Bloom inherited that questionable contract, and until Sale actually performs on it, there’s no way to unload even part of it.

 

And the fact that Sale was going to be here did make Eovaldi and Wacha more questionable acquisitions…

 

The fact that Sale was going to be here, or in most cases not be here made Evol, and Wacha all the More reason to be here.

[notin]

The fact that Sale was going to be here, or in most cases not be here made Evol, and Wacha all the More reason to be here.

 

Did that work out in 2022, when the Sox had all three and they combined for 232 IP, or 4 more than Sandy Alcantara?

[notin]

The fact that Sale was going to be here, or in most cases not be here made Evol, and Wacha all the More reason to be here.

 

And to add

 

You’ve spent all week complaining about how the Sox starters aren’t going deeper into games and are taxing the bullpen, but suddenly you think there is “upside” in two of the most frequently injured pitchers in MLB??

 

And are also arguing somehow that this isn’t hindsight?

[redsoxrules]

2 pitchers the Sox had last year both were named pitcher of the month for May

[Dipre]

I don't get this argument. Wacha has never been as good as his hot May, which he almost certainly won't sustain, and Eovaldi wasn't coming back considering the Sox actually offered him more money than Texas. It's water under the bridge.

[Bellhorn04]

I don't get this argument. Wacha has never been as good as his hot May, which he almost certainly won't sustain, and Eovaldi wasn't coming back considering the Sox actually offered him more money than Texas. It's water under the bridge.

 

It's hard not to talk about when our actual acquisition in Kluber, and our actual rotation, suck. Are we supposed to just wave the Bloom pom-poms and say he's doing his best?

[Bellhorn04]

Of course some of our starters' numbers would look better if they had some competent defense behind them. Oh well.