Overall Grade on Bloom & Cora

[dgalehouse]

The claim that Bloom inherited a mess is pure fiction. He inherited J.D. Martinez , Devers , Bogaerts , Vazquez , Moreland and an outfield known as the " Killer Bees" ( featuring the second best player in the game ) that was considered one the finest , if not the finest in the land . A pitching staff that included Sale ( injured ) , Eovaldi , E-Rod ,Price and Barnes. Not exactly what I would call a mess. At this moment , ( as we await the return of Sale ) Martinez , Devers , Bogaerts and Eovaldi are still the heart and soul of this team , and among the very best in the game today.

[notin]

OK, Barnes's second extra inning appearance was on May 4.

 

He came on in the top of the 10th with the score 4-4.

 

Already used in the game were Davis, Strahm, Robles and Diekman.

 

Barnes got 2 outs, then gave up a HR, single and walk.

 

Sawamura then came in and gave up a single and HR.

 

Danish was in Worcester at the time.

 

It was slim pickings.

 

Were the pickings made any slimmer because of the Hill/Houck piggyback situation? ( Answer: Yes)

 

Whoever made that decision did do damage to the bullpen and for multiple games, as it limited the best reliever to pitching every 5th day. Ang if it was Cora - something none of us know - then he doesn’t get a pass because of what he was given…

[dgalehouse]

As for the farm , he inherited Houck , Duran , Bello , Casas and Mata . All considered among our best prospects today.

[Bellhorn04]

The claim that Bloom inherited a mess is pure fiction. He inherited J.D. Martinez , Devers , Bogaerts , Vazquez , Moreland and an outfield known as the " Killer Bees" ( featuring the second best player in the game ) that was considered one the finest , if not the finest in the land . A pitching staff that included Sale ( injured ) , Eovaldi , E-Rod ,Price and Barnes. Not exactly what I would call a mess. At this moment , ( as we await the return of Sale ) Martinez , Devers , Bogaerts and Eovaldi are still the heart and soul of this team , and among the very best in the game today.

 

No, it's not pure fiction.

 

For various reasons, the only starting pitcher left from the 2019 rotation in the 2020 season was Eovaldi.

 

Betts was gone and Cora was gone.

 

Unless you really think it was Bloom's idea to trade Betts.

Edited June 14, 2022 by Bellhorn04

[Bellhorn04]

As for the farm , he inherited Houck , Duran , Bello , Casas and Mata . All considered among our best prospects today.

 

Sure, but none of those guys were ready in 2020, except for Houck at the very end of it.

 

I think the "mess" comments mainly apply to the 2020 season.

[Old Red]

I think the RHH OF Bloom was referring to was Suzuki. Just because a lot of folks on this board assumed it was to platoon with Bradley didn’t mean that was the case. Just like when some of us (myself included) thought Renfroe was brought in to platoon with Benintendi.

 

So whose idea was Arroyo in RF?

 

I don’t think Suzuki was ever in the picture. He never even met with the Red Sox, and when Bloom made the comment of needing a RHH for the OF Suzuki had already signed with the Cubs.

[dgalehouse]

No, it's not pure fiction.

 

For various reasons, the only starting pitcher left from the 2019 rotation in the 2020 season was Eovaldi.

 

Betts was gone and Cora was gone.

 

Betts was gone because Bloom traded him. Cora was suspended for cheating . Bloom hired his replacement , who basically phoned it in all year. Bloom did not inherit a mess. The team tanked . Please let Bloom win something before we make him out to be another Theo. All we are getting is excuses from the P.B.A.

[mvp 78]

Sure, but none of those guys were ready in 2020, except for Houck at the very end of it.

 

I think the "mess" comments mainly apply to the 2020 season.

 

Yes, the upper reaches of the farm were barren when he got here. The only guys in the top 20 in AA or better were Mata, Duran, Marcus Wilson, Dalbec, Houck and CJ Chatham. Half of the top 20 finished 2019 in Lowell.

 

Top 10 end of 2019:

Casas - High A

Mata - AA (TJS '21)

Groome - RK (TJS '18)

Jimenez - RK

Dalbec - AAA

Duran - AA

Houck - AAA

Song - RK

Chatham - AAA

Ward - High A (TJS '21)

Zeferjahn - RK

Aldo Ramirez - RK

Murphy - RK

Lugo - RK

Decker - RK

Cannon - RK

Bello - Low A

Flores - RK

Rafaela - RK

Marcus Wilson - AA

[Old Red]

No, it's not pure fiction.

 

For various reasons, the only starting pitcher left from the 2019 rotation in the 2020 season was Eovaldi.

 

Betts was gone and Cora was gone.

 

Bloom was told to trade Mookie, and later on hire back Cora, but while 2020 was a total CF the roster it self was not a total mess.it turned out bad, because of the bad resigning of Sale, and ERod being out, but JD, Bogey, Raffy, and Vaz plus adding Dugy was some talent. Not a total mess.

[mvp 78]

Bloom was told to trade Mookie, and later on hire back Cora, but while 2020 was a total CF the roster it self was not a total mess.it turned out bad, because of the bad resigning of Sale, and ERod being out, but JD, Bogey, Raffy, and Vaz plus adding Dugy was some talent. Not a total mess.

 

The pitching staff was a mess of Bloom's creation. Maybe the offense bails out the team over 162 games and they get back to .500? IDK.

 

Aside from penciling in Peraza for an Opening Day start, the rest of the lineup was fine IMO.

[Old Red]

Betts was gone because Bloom traded him. Cora was suspended for cheating . Bloom hired his replacement , who basically phoned it in all year. Bloom did not inherit a mess. The team tanked . Please let Bloom win something before we make him out to be another Theo. All we are getting is excuses from the P.B.A.

 

I think to some, because it has been brought up over, and over that almost getting to the WS last year was good enough.

[Old Red]

The pitching staff was a mess of Bloom's creation. Maybe the offense bails out the team over 162 games and they get back to .500? IDK.

 

Aside from penciling in Peraza for an Opening Day start, the rest of the lineup was fine IMO.

 

Remember JD lost his binky iPad in 2020, and couldn’t hit without it, which didn’t help either.

[JDavis76]

Betts was gone because Bloom traded him. Cora was suspended for cheating . Bloom hired his replacement , who basically phoned it in all year. Bloom did not inherit a mess. The team tanked . Please let Bloom win something before we make him out to be another Theo. All we are getting is excuses from the P.B.A.

 

+++1

[mvp 78]

Remember JD lost his binky iPad in 2020, and couldn’t hit without it, which didn’t help either.

 

Don't ask me to remember too much about 2020. It's not going to work.

[Old Red]

Don't ask me to remember too much about 2020. It's not going to work.

 

Agree that, and the Bobby V year was a year to forget.

[moonslav59]

The claim that Bloom inherited a mess is pure fiction. He inherited J.D. Martinez , Devers , Bogaerts , Vazquez , Moreland and an outfield known as the " Killer Bees" ( featuring the second best player in the game ) that was considered one the finest , if not the finest in the land . A pitching staff that included Sale ( injured ) , Eovaldi , E-Rod ,Price and Barnes. Not exactly what I would call a mess. At this moment , ( as we await the return of Sale ) Martinez , Devers , Bogaerts and Eovaldi are still the heart and soul of this team , and among the very best in the game today.

 

Not fiction, and when I made my statement, I qualified by saying he was given a solid core of 8-10 players and maybe another 10 so-so players. I stand by that statement, and will defend it.

 

1) Counting Betts as a core inheritance misses the fact that he was forced to trade him.

2) Counting Price and that contract as part of a solid foundation is what I'd call fiction.

3) Counting Sale with his injury situation is questionable, too.

 

The cliff deniers want to think back with nostalgia at the 2019, and not recognize the train wreck was upon us, much quicker than even the cliff dwellers had imagined.

 

I was very clear about the "mess" being the bottom 20 on the 40 man roster and a farm that had very few ML ready assets. Not the top 10. Maybe partially the next 10.

 

Betts - to be traded

Price- to be traded as salary dump

Sale- injured

ERod- to contract COVID, but certainly not known at the time of Bloom's take-over, so don't count the illness, if you wish.

Bogey

Beni

Nate

Barnes

 

That's 8. Saying 10 by counting Vaz and Moreland, who was due to age decline very soon, and did is stretching the limits. I'll count them, but to me, they'd be in the so-so category of the next 10. Yes, teams do win with a core of 8-10 solid players, but it is very rare to see a team win with next to nothing as a supporting cast, and that's where the "mess" Bloom inherited was clearly focused on in my statements.

 

Looking back on my statement, I'd say my biggest mistake was not calling it a mess, it was saying we have 10 "so-so players" after the core 8-10.

 

Here's the reality: Betts & Price shouldn't really count, but they did bring us back Verdugo, who could be counted as a solid core player or a so-so player. Blame Bloom, if you must, for not getting a better return, but throwing in Price, someone you felt had plus value back when the trade was made, was one reason our return was limited. It was fantasy then, and hindsight proved Price was washed up and not a solid core guy.

 

The "so-so players" I mentioned proved to be near replacement level players, mostly.

 

Workman- good

Taylor- good

 

Chavis

Dalbec

Plawecki

Walden

DHern

Hembree

 

You call this not "a mess?"

 

That brings us to 18-20 players, and that's counting Sale & ERod. The rest of the 40 man was a total disaster, and that is reality- not fiction.

 

Being forced to trade Betts & Price, and having 10+ ML level slots to fill while also trying to upgrade the other 20 slots on the 40 man roster with just $20M to spend was clearly and certainly a total mess. That part was.

 

Having a solid core of 8 players, including 2 that had to be traded and 2 that were hurt or would get COVID is not much of a foundation to work with.

 

Then, your manager is forced out for a season, and Beni gets hurt for much of 2020, too. Big Nate misses 25% of his starts, and you guys, cling to your belief there was no such thing as a cliff approaching, chose to live in La-La Land and somehow expected Bloom to make us a contender in 2020. Too funny!

 

Then, after some nice deadline moves in 2020, and the steal of Whitlock in rule 5, Bloom is given just $40M to spend before the 2021 season. Sure, several of his signings flopped or flopped for half the season, but Bloom, somehow built a winning team, but what? You guys thought a ring was called for under those conditions?

 

Please!

 

Talk about fiction!

[moonslav59]

More moonslop. I am simply counting the years that he has been GM. Pretty simple.

 

What else are you counting? No rings?

 

That is simple-mindedness, personified.

[Bellhorn04]

Betts was gone because Bloom traded him.

 

And because DD didn't sign him to an extension.

[moonslav59]

Betts was gone because Bloom traded him. Cora was suspended for cheating . Bloom hired his replacement , who basically phoned it in all year. Bloom did not inherit a mess. The team tanked . Please let Bloom win something before we make him out to be another Theo. All we are getting is excuses from the P.B.A.

 

The concept of context has no meaning to you.

 

You think DD wins a ring in 2020 with $20M to spend?

 

$20M doesn't even cover Betts and the $16M saved on Price.

[moonslav59]

And because DD didn't sign him to an extension.

 

Revisionist history is the new fad, these days.

 

That and Alt facts.

[Old Red]

And because DD didn't sign him to an extension.

 

And because John Henry wouldn’t let him to go as high as he wanted to go.

[Bellhorn04]

And because John Henry wouldn’t let him to go as high as he wanted to go.

 

And that's the real reason, yes.

[moonslav59]

Seriously, folks, what GM not from La-La-Land could have spent $20M on 2020 and created a winner? Even in hindsight FA signings, it's impossible.

 

Plus, that $20M was after we cut Betts and half of Price's contracts from the budget, so really, Bloom was handed a negative spending budget.

 

To pretend Bloom chose to cut the budget by himself is complete fantasy.

 

DD would have quit, if he was given the limits Bloom was given. He certainly could not have done any better. His M.O. is not finding gem for cheap. It's about spending large and then even larger. When his budget was restricted before 2019, what happened?

 

Who chose to re-sign Eovaldi, Pearce and extend Sale and not Betts or Bogey? Some of you seem to blame Bloom for that.

[Old Red]

And that's the real reason, yes.

 

My opinion is DD would have gone higher if it was up to him.

[moonslav59]

And because John Henry wouldn’t let him to go as high as he wanted to go.

 

But when we use that very excuse for Bloom, you dismiss it and still blame Bloom.

[moonslav59]

My opinion is DD would have gone higher if it was up to him.

 

Do you think henry lets DD go higher, if Sale's contract wasn't on the books? (Or maybe even Nate's?

[Bellhorn04]

My opinion is DD would have gone higher if it was up to him.

 

I concur again.

[Old Red]

Seriously, folks, what GM not from La-La-Land could have spent $20M on 2020 and created a winner? Even in hindsight FA signings, it's impossible.

 

Plus, that $20M was after we cut Betts and half of Price's contracts from the budget, so really, Bloom was handed a negative spending budget.

 

To pretend Bloom chose to cut the budget by himself is complete fantasy.

 

DD would have quit, if he was given the limits Bloom was given. He certainly could not have done any better. His M.O. is not finding gem for cheap. It's about spending large and then even larger. When his budget was restricted before 2019, what happened?

 

Who chose to re-sign Eovaldi, Pearce and extend Sale and not Betts or Bogey? Some of you seem to blame Bloom for that.

 

Moon you keep on saying the same things over, and over, but what you just can’t accept is some disagree with you. The more, and longer you write does not make you anymore right.

[mvp 78]

Agree that, and the Bobby V year was a year to forget.

 

That was the year Pedro Ciriaco earned a trip to the AS Game in ST.

[Bellhorn04]

Do you think henry lets DD go higher, if Sale's contract wasn't on the books? (Or maybe even Nate's?

 

I think the timeline is that DD signed Sale and Bogey to their extensions after negotiations broke down with Mookie.