The Official 2021 ALCS Thread

[d-money]

It was the plan all along. Use Eovaldi on his throwing day.

 

That's not what lost the game.

 

If we have to throw blame at Cora, and that seems like a ritual after every loss, and even after many wins, it was yanking Pivetta too early and bringing in Perez. Even just having Perez on the roster was pointless, unless you use him in 8 run games.

 

Bringing in perez in a one run game is waving the white flag. It was a terrible move by cora and frankly i would have never brung in eovaldi in a 2-2 game. Thinking long term here. Smh.

[Old Red]

Bringing in perez in a one run game is waving the white flag. It was a terrible move by cora and frankly i would have never brung in eovaldi in a 2-2 game. Thinking long term here. Smh.

 

The classic case of over managing. Just because the batter was a lefty Cora thought he had to bring a lefty pitcher in no matter if he sucks, or not like Perez does.

[Maxbialystock]

The classic case of over managing. Just because the batter was a lefty Cora thought he had to bring a lefty pitcher in no matter if he sucks, or not like Perez does.

 

You and d-money are both, unsurprisingly, full of prunes. The game was basically over before Eovaldi took the mound in the 9th, and it was over because Whitlock didn't do his job when he coughed up that Altuve dinger on a fastball right down the middle to allow the Astros to tie the game.

 

The stark reality about last night is that Houston's bullpen dominated a Sox lineup which recently beat the crap out the Rays and Astros pitching staffs. After Bogey's stunning dinger in the 1st, our big guns just rolled over and died. Bogey later hit a double with 1 out and Verdugo and JDM failed to move him. Arroyo hit a triple with 1 out, and, wait for it, Schwarber and Kike couldn't bring him home.

 

Perez was not sent in to stem the tide, but to get Eovaldi off the mound after 24 pitches. The game was basically over when the Astros scored the first run, off Eovaldi, in the 9th. And I blame that run on Eovaldi and Vazquez foolishly agreeing to throw four straight fastballs to Correa leading off the 9th inning. Time and time again Eovaldi has demonstrated that his very fast fastball is in fact quite hittable when batters, especially good ones like Correa, know it's coming. Immediately after the double, Eovaldi switched to breaking stuff and got two K's before that fateful single to bring Correa home. Then came Perez and the deluge.

Edited October 20, 2021 by Maxbialystock

[notin]

Bringing in perez in a one run game is waving the white flag. It was a terrible move by cora and frankly i would have never brung in eovaldi in a 2-2 game. Thinking long term here. Smh.

 

I got the Eovaldi move. If he needed to go 3 or 4 innings, he was the guy to save the bullpen like he did in 2018. And if they won, the 3-1 would have been a massive difference.

[a700hitter]

Davis and Robles weren't good enough acquisitions at the deadline?

Much better than Graveman.

[Old Red]

You and d-money are both, unsurprisingly, full of prunes. The game was basically over before Eovaldi took the mound in the 9th, and it was over because Whitlock didn't do his job when he coughed up that Altuve dinger on a fastball right down the middle to allow the Astros to tie the game.

 

The stark reality about last night is that Houston's bullpen dominated a Sox lineup which recently beat the crap out the Rays and Astros pitching staffs. After Bogey's stunning dinger in the 1st, our big guns just rolled over and died. Bogey later hit a double with 1 out and Verdugo and JDM failed to move him. Arroyo hit a triple with 1 out, and, wait for it, Schwarber and Kike couldn't bring him home.

 

Perez was not sent in to stem the tide, but to get Eovaldi off the mound after 24 pitches. The game was basically over when the Astros scored the first run, off Eovaldi, in the 9th. And I blame that run on Eovaldi and Vazquez foolishly agreeing to throw four straight fastballs to Correa leading off the 9th inning. Time and time again Eovaldi has demonstrated that his very fast fastball is in fact quite hittable when batters, especially good ones like Correa, know it's coming. Immediately after the double, Eovaldi switched to breaking stuff and got two K's before that fateful single to bring Correa home. Then came Perez and the deluge.

 

Plain, and simple. Was Perez the best guy the Red Sox had in the bullpen to get that batter out in a still 1 run ballgame?? OMG stem the tide? It was a 1 run ballgame, and that should have been the objective at that point to stem the tide I guess except for you, and Cora. To you the game should have been stopped when Whitlock gave up the HR, and just gave the Strohs the game. It’s not prunes you are full of.

[moonslav59]

Never heard a single poster mention us getting Graveman or lamenting the Astros getting him over us.

 

Just sayin'.

[Maxbialystock]

FWIW, I'm delighted to see that both bellhorn and moonslav have stoutly defended Cora's moves last night, as they deserve to be.

 

About pulling Pivetta after 5 innings. I did want him to go out for the 6th, but, when he didn't, I thought I knew why. Yes, Pivetta had been astounding holding the Astros to 1 run, but he had also been lucky. And, when he was pulled, the Astros lineup was facing him for the 3d time.

 

Moreover, as we now know, Cora had a terrific plan for getting through the next 4 innings. Unfortunately, that depended on Whitlock, his very best reliever, throwing two shutout innings in the 7th and 8th, and Eovaldi closing in the 9th. Whitlock threw a first pitch fastball right down the middle to Altuve, then, in the 9th, Eovaldi threw four straight fastballs to lead off hitter Correa in the 9th, resulting in a double off the right field wall. To me the fault clearly lay with Whitlock and Eovaldi, not Cora.

 

And the other great fault of course was the lineup, which scored 0 runs in 8 innings and was 0 for 9 with RISP.

 

So why are we blaming Cora and/or the ump when we know Whitlock didn't do his job, Eovaldi didn't do his, and the lineup didn't do theirs?

[Maxbialystock]

Plain, and simple. Was Perez the best guy the Red Sox had in the bullpen to get that batter out in a still 1 run ballgame?? OMG stem the tide? It was a 1 run ballgame, and that should have been the objective at that point to stem the tide I guess except for you, and Cora. To you the game should have been stopped when Whitlock gave up the HR, and just gave the Strohs the game. It’s not prunes you are full of.

 

Of course Perez wasn't the best choice to stem the tide. Far from it. His primary purpose was to get Eovaldi off the mound. Secondarily, I think Perez presence was an admission that the tide had already washed over the Sox in this game. The Astros bullpen dominated the Sox lineup, who were 0 for 9 with RISP. The game was really lost by Whitlock when he gave up that dinger to Altuve in the 8th to tie the game. And Eovaldi made it worse by throwing four straight fastballs to Correa to lead off the 9th.

Edited October 20, 2021 by Maxbialystock

[a700hitter]

FWIW, I'm delighted to see that both bellhorn and moonslav have stoutly defended Cora's moves last night, as they deserve to be.

 

About pulling Pivetta after 5 innings. I did want him to go out for the 6th, but, when he didn't, I thought I knew why. Yes, Pivetta had been astounding holding the Astros to 1 run, but he had also been lucky. And, when he was pulled, the Astros lineup was facing him for the 3d time.

 

Moreover, as we now know, Cora had a terrific plan for getting through the next 4 innings. Unfortunately, that depended on Whitlock, his very best reliever, throwing two shutout innings in the 7th and 8th, and Eovaldi closing in the 9th. Whitlock threw a first pitch fastball right down the middle to Altuve, then, in the 9th, Eovaldi threw four straight fastballs to lead off hitter Correa in the 9th, resulting in a double off the right field wall. To me the fault clearly lay with Whitlock and Eovaldi, not Cora.

 

And the other great fault of course was the lineup, which scored 0 runs in 8 innings and was 0 for 9 with RISP.

 

So why are we blaming Cora and/or the ump when we know Whitlock didn't do his job, Eovaldi didn't do his, and the lineup didn't do theirs?

The lineup gave them the lead into the 8th inning. The late inning relievers didn’t hold the lead, and Cora s*** the bed in a big way putting Perez on the mound in a close game.

[Bellhorn04]

You and d-money are both, unsurprisingly, full of prunes. The game was basically over before Eovaldi took the mound in the 9th, and it was over because Whitlock didn't do his job when he coughed up that Altuve dinger on a fastball right down the middle to allow the Astros to tie the game.

 

All 3 of you are full of it. It's like a shitsnowball LOL. The game was not over going into the 9th unless you think all of a sudden Eovaldi is a bum.

[Bellhorn04]

I got the Eovaldi move. If he needed to go 3 or 4 innings, he was the guy to save the bullpen like he did in 2018. And if they won, the 3-1 would have been a massive difference.

 

I'm pretty sure the plan was Eovaldi for 1 inning only. It was the same thing Cora did in the 2018 playoffs, using starters for 1 inning on their throw days.

[a700hitter]

Never heard a single poster mention us getting Graveman or lamenting the Astros getting him over us.

 

Just sayin'.

A lot of people were surprised that Graveman was acquired by the Astros and even more surprised that Seattle would trade him while he was having such a great season. Red Sox announcers mentioned it several times. Just because none of the mo mos here mentioned it doesn’t mean that the Astros GM didn’t make a much better move than Bloom did with Robles and Davis.

[d-money]

You and d-money are both, unsurprisingly, full of prunes. The game was basically over before Eovaldi took the mound in the 9th, and it was over because Whitlock didn't do his job when he coughed up that Altuve dinger on a fastball right down the middle to allow the Astros to tie the game.

 

The stark reality about last night is that Houston's bullpen dominated a Sox lineup which recently beat the crap out the Rays and Astros pitching staffs. After Bogey's stunning dinger in the 1st, our big guns just rolled over and died. Bogey later hit a double with 1 out and Verdugo and JDM failed to move him. Arroyo hit a triple with 1 out, and, wait for it, Schwarber and Kike couldn't bring him home.

 

Perez was not sent in to stem the tide, but to get Eovaldi off the mound after 24 pitches. The game was basically over when the Astros scored the first run, off Eovaldi, in the 9th. And I blame that run on Eovaldi and Vazquez foolishly agreeing to throw four straight fastballs to Correa leading off the 9th inning. Time and time again Eovaldi has demonstrated that his very fast fastball is in fact quite hittable when batters, especially good ones like Correa, know it's coming. Immediately after the double, Eovaldi switched to breaking stuff and got two K's before that fateful single to bring Correa home. Then came Perez and the deluge.

 

If it comes down to a bullpen game they’re not winning this series. You gotta hit to beat this teamS did you honestly think this pen was gonna hold a 2-1 lead? Come on now.

[a700hitter]

Of course Perez wasn't the best choice to stem the tide. Far from it. His primary purpose was to get Eovaldi off the mound. Secondarily, I think Perez presence was an admission that the tide had already washed over the Sox in this game. The Astros bullpen dominated the Sox lineup, who were 0 for 9 with RISP. The game was really lost by Whitlock when he gave up that dinger to Altuve in the 8th to tie the game. And Eovaldi made it worse by throwing four straight fastballs to Correa to lead off the 9th.

”An admission” ? Seriously? I don’t think that was the case in a 1 run game in the 9th inning at home. Cora just made a terrible decision. Edited October 20, 2021 by a700hitter

[Maxbialystock]

All 3 of you are full of it. It's like a shitsnowball LOL. The game was not over going into the 9th unless you think all of a sudden Eovaldi is a bum.

 

I love Eovaldi. He has his faults, which we saw in those four straight fastballs he served up to Correa, but he is the Sox best pitcher and the right guy to pitch the 9th. Even after that double off the RF wall, Eovaldi came close to pulling off a scoreless inning.

 

But my point is that Whitlock giving up the dinger in the 8th put the Sox in a very precarious position. As we now know, the Astros bullpen completely dominated the Sox hitting for the final 8 innings. So, when Eovaldi took the mound, it wasn't for a save but for a hold and for just one inning at that.

 

I just did not see the Sox winning in extra innings last night because the momentum clearly belonged to the Astros bullpen and lineup.

[Bellhorn04]

If it comes down to a bullpen game they’re not winning this series. You gotta hit to beat this teamS did you honestly think this pen was gonna hold a 2-1 lead? Come on now.

 

If the pen was as bad as you're making out, we never would have got past the Yankees and Rays.

[Bellhorn04]

I love Eovaldi. He has his faults, which we saw in those four straight fastballs he served up to Correa, but he is the Sox best pitcher and the right guy to pitch the 9th. Even after that double off the RF wall, Eovaldi came close to pulling off a scoreless inning.

 

But my point is that Whitlock giving up the dinger in the 8th put the Sox in a very precarious position. As we now know, the Astros bullpen completely dominated the Sox hitting for the final 8 innings. So, when Eovaldi took the mound, it wasn't for a save but for a hold and for just one inning at that.

 

I just did not see the Sox winning in extra innings last night because the momentum clearly belonged to the Astros bullpen and lineup.

 

Oh jeez, again with the "momentum".

[a700hitter]

If it comes down to a bullpen game they’re not winning this series. You gotta hit to beat this teamS did you honestly think this pen was gonna hold a 2-1 lead? Come on now.

Exactly, the Red Sox offense needs to bludgeon to win. Hitters can’t bludgeon every game and obviously our pitching can’t pick up our hitters.

[Maxbialystock]

”An admission” ? Seriously? I don’t think that was the case in a 1 run game at home in the 9th inning at home. Cora just made a terrible decision.

 

Ahem. The Sox scored 0 runs in the bottom of the 9th as they had in the previous 7 innings. If Perez had gotten that first batter out, the Sox would have lost 3-2.

[a700hitter]

Ahem. The Sox scored 0 runs in the bottom of the 9th as they had in the previous 7 innings. If Perez had gotten that first batter out, the Sox would have lost 3-2.

The dynamic of the bottom of that 9th inning would have been different if it was a 3-2 game.

[Bellhorn04]

If you think momentum in a game is a real thing, you might want to look all the way back to Games 3 and 4 against the Rays. We BLEW LATE LEADS IN BOTH GAMES BUT WE WON THEM BOTH.

[moonslav59]

Ahem. The Sox scored 0 runs in the bottom of the 9th as they had in the previous 7 innings. If Perez had gotten that first batter out, the Sox would have lost 3-2.

 

There is no way of knowing this.

 

They would have pitched batters differently and maybe even had a different pitcher in the game.

[Maxbialystock]

Oh jeez, again with the "momentum".

 

The momentum was palpable last night, long before the 8th and 9th innings, because the Astros bullpen had the Sox lineup by the short hairs. They were 0 for 9 with RISP. Bogey hit a double with 1 out, and Dugo and JDM couldn't bring him home. Arroyo hit a triple with 1 out, and Schwarber and Kike couldn't bring him home.

 

The Sox have won 6 postseason games so far, but not one while scoring less than 6 runs.

[Maxbialystock]

There is no way of knowing this.

 

They would have pitched batters differently and maybe even had a different pitcher in the game.

 

See above. The Sox have won 6 postseason games, but none when scoring less than 6 runs. True, we can't "know" for sure what would have happened in the bottom of the 9th, down 3-2, but we can make a reasonable supposition based on what we saw earlier in last night's game and earlier in this postseason.

 

When I saw Perez go out there, I thought Cora figured the game was over and now needed to get Eovaldi off the mound and not spend any more good relievers.

[Maxbialystock]

If you think momentum in a game is a real thing, you might want to look all the way back to Games 3 and 4 against the Rays. We BLEW LATE LEADS IN BOTH GAMES BUT WE WON THEM BOTH.

 

One more time. The Sox have not won a single game in the postseason while scoring less than 6 runs. Last night that scored 2 runs in 9 innings. Last night they were 0 for 9 with RISP. Last night the Astros bullpen was excellent.

[Old Red]

Of course Perez wasn't the best choice to stem the tide. Far from it. His primary purpose was to get Eovaldi off the mound. Secondarily, I think Perez presence was an admission that the tide had already washed over the Sox in this game. The Astros bullpen dominated the Sox lineup, who were 0 for 9 with RISP. The game was really lost by Whitlock when he gave up that dinger to Altuve in the 8th to tie the game. And Eovaldi made it worse by throwing four straight fastballs to Correa to lead off the 9th.

 

Why do you keep saying that the primary purpose of whoever relieved EO was not to stop anymore runs from scoring in A ONE RUN game, and I repeat a 1 run game, but only to get EO out of the game. Did you hear Cora say that, or is that just your wrong interpretation again. You already said Perez wasn’t the best choice to stem the tide, so what you are really saying is that Cora made a bad decision bring in Perez.

[Maxbialystock]

The dynamic of the bottom of that 9th inning would have been different if it was a 3-2 game.

 

I'm more than happy to concede that. But then you need to concede that the Sox hitting died after the 1st inning. They were 0 for 9 with RISP. They failed to bring Bogey home after his one out double, ditto Arroyo after his one out triple.

 

The Sox bullpen, meanwhile, gave up 2 runs in 4 inning--and those two runs were scored off arguably the Sox two best pitchers, Whitlock and Eovaldi.

[Key2Delock]

Most pre-season predictions had the Red Sox finishing fourth in the AL East, the Giants finishing fourth in the NL West and the Yankees facing the Dodgers in the World Series.

 

As a Red Sox and Giants fan since the mid-1950s, it’s depressing to think about last night’s Red Sox loss and the terrible checked-swing strikeout call on Wilmer Flores to end the NLDS, but considering that the Red Sox have gotten this far in the season and were close to taking a 3-1 lead in the ALCS and that the Giants finished with the best record in MLB during the regular season and came close to winning the NLDS, that's much more than I expected this season.

 

I’m just grateful that I was alive to see the 2004, 2007, 2010, 2012, 2013, 2014 and 2018 World Series. Be thankful for the little things.

[moonslav59]

Most pre-season predictions had the Red Sox finishing fourth in the AL East, the Giants finishing fourth in the NL West and the Yankees facing the Dodgers in the World Series.

 

As a Red Sox and Giants fan since the mid-1950s, it’s depressing to think about last night’s Red Sox loss and the terrible checked-swing strikeout call on Wilmer Flores to end the NLDS, but considering that the Red Sox have gotten this far in the season and were close to taking a 3-1 lead in the ALCS and that the Giants finished with the best record in MLB during the regular season and came close to winning the NLDS, that's much more than I expected this season.

 

I’m just grateful that I was alive to see the 2004, 2007, 2010, 2012, 2013, 2014 and 2018 World Series. Be thankful for the little things.

 

Amen!