Yankees sign a Gerrit Cole...

[notin]

Just thought that I would try on that embellishing thing for size. I know exactly what is being said here. I just don't think that there is much reason to feel that the team may put plans of progressing on hold for a few years just to build up the bank. In the event that that does happen or even looks like it might be happening, they will lose fans.

 

The Red Sox aren’t tanking and not going to be a small market team.

 

They’re still going to spend money this year. They might only spend $220mill instead of $240mil, but it turns out, that’s still a lot of money...

[jacksonianmarch]

The Red Sox aren’t tanking and not going to be a small market team.

 

They’re still going to spend money this year. They might only spend $220mill instead of $240mil, but it turns out, that’s still a lot of money...

 

With how the sox have positioned themselves financially and how they've acted thus far this offseason, I would be absolutely shocked if the sox weren't under the $208 mil threshold

[Bellhorn04]

With how the sox have positioned themselves financially and how they've acted thus far this offseason, I would be absolutely shocked if the sox weren't under the $208 mil threshold

 

Agreed, they are going below $208.

[notin]

With how the sox have positioned themselves financially and how they've acted thus far this offseason, I would be absolutely shocked if the sox weren't under the $208 mil threshold

 

Seriously? Do I have to state the obvious?

 

They can have a payroll in the $220 mill range this year and still be below the $208 threshold for aggregate AAV towards the luxury tax. These are NOT mutually exclusive statements.

 

In fact, those backloaded contracts are their more likely acquisitions as teams try to get out of paying the real money...

[Bellhorn04]

Seriously? Do I have to state the obvious?

 

They can have a payroll in the $220 mill range this year and still be below the $208 threshold for aggregate AAV towards the luxury tax. These are NOT mutually exclusive statements.

 

In fact, those backloaded contracts are their more likely acquisitions as teams try to get out of paying the real money...

 

In fairness, we're usually talking luxury tax numbers these days. I interpreted your number the same way Jax did.

[notin]

In fairness, we're usually talking luxury tax numbers these days. I interpreted your number the same way Jax did.

 

And I was equally disappointed when you did..,

[Bellhorn04]

And I was equally disappointed when you did..,

 

Sorry, like I say, we're usually talking LT number now...

[Slasher9]

so the suggestion is that the Sox will now become a small market team ...?

 

you can thank your boy Dave Dombrowski.

[Slasher9]

In order to do that the Sox need to make it out of the regular season

 

yet your boy jacksonianmarch was talking about regular season bloodbaths. so which is it? every year you and jacksonianmarch come on here and wax how the Sox are toast and how great the yankees are. we keep raising flags and you keep tossing and turning all night...

[Slasher9]

Just thought that I would try on that embellishing thing for size. I know exactly what is being said here. I just don't think that there is much reason to feel that the team may put plans of progressing on hold for a few years just to build up the bank. In the event that that does happen or even looks like it might be happening, they will lose fans.

 

it's not a few years. the reset is one year.

did you quit on the Red Sox during our last place finishes this past decade?

there will always be years that we dont make the postseason. 2019 was one. i predict 2020 will be another.

2021? get the duckboats ready.

[jacksonianmarch]

Seriously? Do I have to state the obvious?

 

They can have a payroll in the $220 mill range this year and still be below the $208 threshold for aggregate AAV towards the luxury tax. These are NOT mutually exclusive statements.

 

In fact, those backloaded contracts are their more likely acquisitions as teams try to get out of paying the real money...

 

The $208 mil line is NOT aggregate payments. I am strictly speaking of luxury tax. It’s importance is for resetting the penalty. If the Sox are over for 2020, that’s a 50% overage for the first $20 mil. If the Sox plan on going over with Mookie’s next contract, then a 50% surcharge would be a killer.

 

Think about it this way. If the Sox trade Mookie and get right up to the line for 2020 but don’t cross it, then the penalty resets. If they signed him to a $39.9 mil AAV contract (theoretically of course), then the Sox would be taxed 20% of the first $20 mil and 32.5% of the $19.9 mil (call it $20 mil for arguments sake). That comes out to $10.5 mil penalty. Pretty annoying clearly.

 

But if the Sox don’t sneak under the line and sign Mookie to the same deal, the penalty for 2021 would be 50% of the first $20 mil and 62.5% of the second $20 mil. That’s a whopping $23.5 mil on a $40 mil AAV contract. That would mean that the Sox would essentially pay a surcharge to the MLB of 58.75% on a Mookie deal. That’s insane.

[jacksonianmarch]

yet your boy jacksonianmarch was talking about regular season bloodbaths. so which is it? every year you and jacksonianmarch come on here and wax how the Sox are toast and how great the yankees are. we keep raising flags and you keep tossing and turning all night...

 

You're only gonna raise ticket prices in 2020, nothing more. The sox are over the cliff. DD has left you decimated. It will take YEARS to recover while we have the shot to raise some flags, hopefully more than 1

[mvp 78]

You're only gonna raise ticket prices in 2020, nothing more. The sox are over the cliff. DD has left you decimated. It will take YEARS to recover while we have the shot to raise some flags, hopefully more than 1

 

Lololol... Good stuff.

 

Sox are 2 seasons removed from winning 108 games with a largely similar cast. Enjoy winning the offseason! That’s the only flag you’ll have in the near future.

[Slasher9]

Lololol... Good stuff.

 

Sox are 2 seasons removed from winning 108 games with a largely similar cast. Enjoy winning the offseason! That’s the only flag you’ll have in the near future.

 

i like your new sig.

[moonslav59]

The $208 mil line is NOT aggregate payments. I am strictly speaking of luxury tax. It’s importance is for resetting the penalty. If the Sox are over for 2020, that’s a 50% overage for the first $20 mil. If the Sox plan on going over with Mookie’s next contract, then a 50% surcharge would be a killer.

 

Think about it this way. If the Sox trade Mookie and get right up to the line for 2020 but don’t cross it, then the penalty resets. If they signed him to a $39.9 mil AAV contract (theoretically of course), then the Sox would be taxed 20% of the first $20 mil and 32.5% of the $19.9 mil (call it $20 mil for arguments sake). That comes out to $10.5 mil penalty. Pretty annoying clearly.

 

But if the Sox don’t sneak under the line and sign Mookie to the same deal, the penalty for 2021 would be 50% of the first $20 mil and 62.5% of the second $20 mil. That’s a whopping $23.5 mil on a $40 mil AAV contract. That would mean that the Sox would essentially pay a surcharge to the MLB of 58.75% on a Mookie deal. That’s insane.

 

That is why we WILL reset.

 

Even if we don't end up signing Betts, the math is still the same for others we add for 2021 and beyond.

 

They've all but confirmed the reset is happening. They are dancing around with the words in hopes of not losing season ticket holders and NESN subscribers.

 

BTW, it may take just one year to get over the cliff. More likely 2, but 1 is possible if we go $39.9 M over the line in 2021.

[mvp 78]

i like your new sig.

 

It’s true tho. It’s cringey s***.

[mvp 78]

Imagine if people dressed up like Bob Barker for David Price starts? Dumb! NYers would eat that s*** up tho.

[Carpin]

yet your boy jacksonianmarch was talking about regular season bloodbaths. so which is it? every year you and jacksonianmarch come on here and wax how the Sox are toast and how great the yankees are. we keep raising flags and you keep tossing and turning all night...

 

please show me ONE POST where I diminish the Sox or make a statement like "the sox are toast" and I will apologize, no problem. You won't find it

[Slasher9]

please show me ONE POST where I diminish the Sox or make a statement like "the sox are toast" and I will apologize, no problem. You won't find it

 

fair. i shouldn't have included your name on that. apologies.

[Bellhorn04]

You're only gonna raise ticket prices in 2020, nothing more. The sox are over the cliff. DD has left you decimated. It will take YEARS to recover while we have the shot to raise some flags, hopefully more than 1

 

It's worth noting that the contracts of Tanaka, Paxton & LeMahieu all expire in 2020.

[cp176]

it's not a few years. the reset is one year.

did you quit on the Red Sox during our last place finishes this past decade?

there will always be years that we dont make the postseason. 2019 was one. i predict 2020 will be another.

2021? get the duckboats ready.

 

Much as i did this past year, yes I did lose interest in watching them wallow in the lowdown. "There will always be years that we don't make the postseason" - really Slasher i did not realize that. I thought that everyone must think that me wanting them to stay competitive meant that nothing short of a title would make me happy. lol Sounds to me like you are thinking that it might be ok to lose now in order to strengthen an always unpredictable future. I don't agree. When you stop trying to better yourself, you are a loser.

[cp176]

you can thank your boy Dave Dombrowski.

 

ok - and every other GM before him for everything that didn't work out positively. The beat goes on.

[Bellhorn04]

Much as i did this past year, yes I did lose interest in watching them wallow in the lowdown. "There will always be years that we don't make the postseason" - really Slasher i did not realize that. I thought that everyone must think that me wanting them to stay competitive meant that nothing short of a title would make me happy. lol Sounds to me like you are thinking that it might be ok to lose now in order to strengthen an always unpredictable future. I don't agree. When you stop trying to better yourself, you are a loser.

 

Sometimes you have no choice but to get worse now to be better later. Like in 2012 with the Dodgers trade.

[jacksonianmarch]

It's worth noting that the contracts of Tanaka, Paxton & LeMahieu all expire in 2020.

 

You conveniently forgot Ellsbury, too. That is the reason why this spending spree can be supplemented with our farm. We will need to re-up Lemahieu or be willing to move on from him, which I bet we aren't willing to do. Paxton is gonna go to market, bet on that. He will have a QO attached, but whatever. Tanaka might be willing to sign on for less than what he is making now, probably considerably less unless he puts up an ace type season in 2020. But having Cole at the top of this rotation allows us to take some risks with the back end of the rotation. Let's say Paxton and Tanaka move on, the Yanks would have a hell of a top 2 in Cole and Severino. German would probably be the #3 as his admin suspension isn't going to be into 2021 (likely to be something like the first 15 games of 2020 since he missed so much at the back end of 2019). 2020 would give us the opportunity to see if Montgomery is healthy. If he is, he is a fine #4/5 starter. It would give us a year to groom a #4/5 starter at the back end. Will we be as dangerous, probably not, but still, a playoff rotation that goes Cole-Sevy-German-??(maybe JMont) is still better than what we had this past year.

 

The contracts coming off would be Ellsbury, Tanaka, Gardner, Happ, Paxton, Lemahieu. That's $97.8 mil. By 2021, the only guy we would absolutely need is Lemahieu. Assume he signs on around the $20 mil mark in AAV, then that will allow for $77.8 mil of new money. Some of that will go to arb costs (Judge, Sanchez, Montgomery for year 2, German, Torres, Andujar, Voit for year 1 of arb) but as none of these are final year tallies, my bet is we only see about $30 mil in increases, which might actually see us fall below the lux tax limit. If that doesn't really matter to Steiny and he wants to win, that's another $40 mil or so we could use to bolster the back end of the rotation

[Slasher9]

Much as i did this past year, yes I did lose interest in watching them wallow in the lowdown. "There will always be years that we don't make the postseason" - really Slasher i did not realize that. I thought that everyone must think that me wanting them to stay competitive meant that nothing short of a title would make me happy. lol Sounds to me like you are thinking that it might be ok to lose now in order to strengthen an always unpredictable future. I don't agree. When you stop trying to better yourself, you are a loser.

 

OK. so what moves would you have Chaim do for this coming season to have the big league club "stay competitive" under the mandate from JH that he needs to keep the payroll under $208MM? and what moves are you doing to build the Farm at the same time?

or are you suggesting that JH ignore the ~ $100MM "tax" he would have to pay for not resetting? he would have an icy cold bed for quite some time if he were to piss away $100MM on "tax"....dont you think?

[Slasher9]

You conveniently forgot Ellsbury, too. That is the reason why this spending spree can be supplemented with our farm. We will need to re-up Lemahieu or be willing to move on from him, which I bet we aren't willing to do. Paxton is gonna go to market, bet on that. He will have a QO attached, but whatever. Tanaka might be willing to sign on for less than what he is making now, probably considerably less unless he puts up an ace type season in 2020. But having Cole at the top of this rotation allows us to take some risks with the back end of the rotation. Let's say Paxton and Tanaka move on, the Yanks would have a hell of a top 2 in Cole and Severino. German would probably be the #3 as his admin suspension isn't going to be into 2021 (likely to be something like the first 15 games of 2020 since he missed so much at the back end of 2019). 2020 would give us the opportunity to see if Montgomery is healthy. If he is, he is a fine #4/5 starter. It would give us a year to groom a #4/5 starter at the back end. Will we be as dangerous, probably not, but still, a playoff rotation that goes Cole-Sevy-German-??(maybe JMont) is still better than what we had this past year.

 

The contracts coming off would be Ellsbury, Tanaka, Gardner, Happ, Paxton, Lemahieu. That's $97.8 mil. By 2021, the only guy we would absolutely need is Lemahieu. Assume he signs on around the $20 mil mark in AAV, then that will allow for $77.8 mil of new money. Some of that will go to arb costs (Judge, Sanchez, Montgomery for year 2, German, Torres, Andujar, Voit for year 1 of arb) but as none of these are final year tallies, my bet is we only see about $30 mil in increases, which might actually see us fall below the lux tax limit. If that doesn't really matter to Steiny and he wants to win, that's another $40 mil or so we could use to bolster the back end of the rotation

 

so many words wasted here when you simply could have typed "cliff looming"

[Slasher9]

ok - and every other GM before him for everything that didn't work out positively. The beat goes on.

 

it's a completely different beat.

remind me who was the last GM before DD that left us with both a .500 big league club and a decimated Farm?

[jacksonianmarch]

it's a completely different beat.

remind me who was the last GM before DD that left us with both a .500 big league club and a decimated Farm?

 

Exactly. That’s the rub here

[SoxnCycles]

it's not a few years. the reset is one year.

did you quit on the Red Sox during our last place finishes this past decade?

there will always be years that we dont make the postseason. 2019 was one. i predict 2020 will be another.

2021? get the duckboats ready.

 

Sounds about right.

[jacksonianmarch]

The reset will be one year. The rebuild likely longer than that