Not a popular stance .Extend JBJ 3 years 21 million

[Swiharts Ghost]

Yes flame away but I've seen enough of Mookie and Benny in CF to see what we are in store for .I would hope JDM becomes a DH only player and or opts out this year .I would look to get DD to play second base as our big acquisition for position players .Trade price if at all possible and Sale .I would then try like the Dickens to get Cole .Cole,Erod Evoldi ,Webber rotation .Devers Xander ,DD ,Chavis infield same outfield .DH JDM likely or maybe Edwin ? Is he available ? I just think DD would be a great fit personality and talent wise .What say you ?Flame away !!!!

[fxkatt]

Yes to Didi, but it depends on the price. No to Cole because we know this will be an OverPrice. A real down year for free agents, I think. We have make trades or hope that Sale or Price can nearly equal Cole's 2020 season--and be our Cole.

[moonslav59]

Nope & nope.

 

Reset in 2020!

[Swiharts Ghost]

Nope & nope.

 

Reset in 2020!

 

Lol yes very likely but come on DD atleast ?

[moonslav59]

Lol yes very likely but come on DD atleast ?

 

Nope on DD for 2020.

[oldtimer]

Yes flame away but I've seen enough of Mookie and Benny in CF to see what we are in store for .I would hope JDM becomes a DH only player and or opts out this year .I would look to get DD to play second base as our big acquisition for position players .Trade price if at all possible and Sale .I would then try like the Dickens to get Cole .Cole,Erod Evoldi ,Webber rotation .Devers Xander ,DD ,Chavis infield same outfield .DH JDM likely or maybe Edwin ? Is he available ? I just think DD would be a great fit personality and talent wise .What say you ?Flame away !!!!

 

I would love to see the team head in the direction of a good hitter at every position. Hard to do, but other teams have accomplished it. JBJ will never be a good hitter, steaky at best. Leon is the same and our second and first base positions have been weak due to injuries and to lack of talent. At least try to retain our good guys and improve where we are weak. Get rid of guys who won't help us in 2021 and 2022.

 

Of course starting pitching is our weakest position, followed by our pen.

 

We have significant limitations with all the money tied up in Price, Sale, Eovaldi and Pedroia. Those 4 alone are paid more than the total budget of Oakland. We also have one of the, if not the weakest farm systems. Reset this year, bring in some low cost minor league types who may be better than ones we have and try to avoid making the same contract mistakes of the past. Draft better and develop what we have. That probably means say bye bye to DD.

[Swiharts Ghost]

Yes to Didi, but it depends on the price. No to Cole because we know this will be an OverPrice. A real down year for free agents, I think. We have make trades or hope that Sale or Price can nearly equal Cole's 2020 season--and be our Cole.

Will price ever have a healthy season here on in ? I just can't see it .Sale and Price are the reset .

[Swiharts Ghost]

I would love to see the team head in the direction of a good hitter at every position. Hard to do, but other teams have accomplished it. JBJ will never be a good hitter, steaky at best. Leon is the same and our second and first base positions have been weak due to injuries and to lack of talent. At least try to retain our good guys and improve where we are weak. Get rid of guys who won't help us in 2021 and 2022.

 

Of course starting pitching is our weakest position, followed by our pen.

 

We have significant limitations with all the money tied up in Price, Sale, Eovaldi and Pedroia. Those 4 alone are paid more than the total budget of Oakland. We also have one of the, if not the weakest farm systems. Reset this year, bring in some low cost minor league types who may be better than ones we have and try to avoid making the same contract mistakes of the past. Draft better and develop what we have. That probably means say bye bye to DD.

 

in a perfect world JDM opts out we trade price and Sale takes HGH all off season to heal up .

[moonslav59]

I would love to see the team head in the direction of a good hitter at every position. Hard to do, but other teams have accomplished it. JBJ will never be a good hitter, steaky at best. Leon is the same and our second and first base positions have been weak due to injuries and to lack of talent. At least try to retain our good guys and improve where we are weak. Get rid of guys who won't help us in 2021 and 2022.

 

Of course starting pitching is our weakest position, followed by our pen.

 

We have significant limitations with all the money tied up in Price, Sale, Eovaldi and Pedroia. Those 4 alone are paid more than the total budget of Oakland. We also have one of the, if not the weakest farm systems. Reset this year, bring in some low cost minor league types who may be better than ones we have and try to avoid making the same contract mistakes of the past. Draft better and develop what we have. That probably means say bye bye to DD.

 

We just had good hitters at every position plus some on the bench.

 

Our pitching let us down. My hope is all these down years were just that- one year downs.

 

Our top 4 players by PAs are all over .909.

7 of our top 10 players by PAs are over .807 OPS.

9 of our top 10 are over .766.

All 10 are over .724.

No black holes until you get to #12 in PAs, Leon, at .536.

We also have Marco at .781. He'll end up 14th in PAs.

That's 11 guys over .724 and 10 over .766.

 

If we lose JBJ (.724 at 6th in PAs), Moreland (.838 and 9th in PAs) and Holt (.815 at 10th in PAs), we may still have 7 returning guys over .766, this year and all 9 over .700.

 

C .767 Vaz

1B .766 Chavis

2B .781 Marco

3B .932 Devers

SS .955 Bogey

LF .701 Travis

CF .807 Beni

RF .909 Betts

DH .968 JD

 

 

[moonslav59]

in a perfect world JDM opts out we trade price and Sale takes HGH all off season to heal up .

 

We don't need JD to opt out to reset, but it would give us more wiggle room.

 

My guess is he opts out after 2020, and if we reset next year, I guess it wouldn't really help having him here in 2020, unless we surprise everybody and compete during the reset.

 

It's not impossible. Losing Porcello and Cashner are additions by subtraction (looking at just 2019 vs 2020). Losing JBJ, Holt, Moreland & Pearce could hurt, but we'll still have a solid 7-8 everyday players.

[sk7326]

Losing JBJ, and finding a reasonable CF or RF (can't be picky) should not be all that difficult. Travis has probably shown enough to plug him into a corner as a worst case.

 

This year I think is a bit of an aberration, in that the pitching was all bad at the same time. The only exception was Rodriguez, and even he was more an "above average" outcome than a crazy outlier. I guess I should say Workman as well.

 

Position player wise the team is fine.

 

C: Vasquez - Quality Starter

1B, 2B: Open to ideas

3B: Devers - Sure looks like a Superstar very soon

SS: Bogaerts - A not quite superstar

LF: Benintendi - A very good player, if not quite a star

CF: Bradley - decent starter

RF: Betts - actual Superstar

DH: Martinez - A not quite superstar but absolute stud

[moonslav59]

Losing JBJ, and finding a reasonable CF or RF (can't be picky) should not be all that difficult. Travis has probably shown enough to plug him into a corner as a worst case.

 

This year I think is a bit of an aberration, in that the pitching was all bad at the same time. The only exception was Rodriguez, and even he was more an "above average" outcome than a crazy outlier. I guess I should say Workman as well.

 

Position player wise the team is fine.

 

C: Vasquez - Quality Starter

1B, 2B: Open to ideas

3B: Devers - Sure looks like a Superstar very soon

SS: Bogaerts - A not quite superstar

LF: Benintendi - A very good player, if not quite a star

CF: Bradley - decent starter

RF: Betts - actual Superstar

DH: Martinez - A not quite superstar but absolute stud

 

Walden & Taylor did well, too.

[Kimmi]

in a perfect world JDM opts out we trade price and Sale takes HGH all off season to heal up .

 

I don't want JD to opt out, but I really think his playing time in the field should be limited to playing in NL parks or in the case of injury to one of our starting outfielders.

[oldtimer]

We just had good hitters at every position plus some on the bench.

 

Our pitching let us down. My hope is all these down years were just that- one year downs.

 

Our top 4 players by PAs are all over .909.

7 of our top 10 players by PAs are over .807 OPS.

9 of our top 10 are over .766.

All 10 are over .724.

No black holes until you get to #12 in PAs, Leon, at .536.

We also have Marco at .781. He'll end up 14th in PAs.

That's 11 guys over .724 and 10 over .766.

 

If we lose JBJ (.724 at 6th in PAs), Moreland (.838 and 9th in PAs) and Holt (.815 at 10th in PAs), we may still have 7 returning guys over .766, this year and all 9 over .700.

 

C .767 Vaz

1B .766 Chavis

2B .781 Marco

3B .932 Devers

SS .955 Bogey

LF .701 Travis

CF .807 Beni

RF .909 Betts

DH .968 JD

 

 

 

Vaz doesn't play every day, Travis is a marginal hitter, JBJ is streaky, going from awful to decent. Right now he is back to bad. When those guys are in the game we sacrafice 3 abs an inning. I'm for improving while cutting payroll everywhere possible. Our top 7 are as good as anyone's but they shouldn't have to carry all the load. We heard the same kind of arguments for the past few years. JBJ hasn't improved but his salary expectations have crept up.

 

I agree that the starting pitching is a key going forward and the BP could use a closer and maybe a couple of good arms. Hard to do that if we wind up offering JBJ a 3 year $21 mil contract, don't you think? I know you didn't suggest that but another did and it sounds like going in the wrong direction.

[moonslav59]

I don't want JD to opt out, but I really think his playing time in the field should be limited to playing in NL parks or in the case of injury to one of our starting outfielders.

 

I'd like to see us acquire a dirt cheap super defensive CF'er for next season. I don't care about his offense.

 

Keep JD at DH, except in NL parks.

 

Let Chavis, Marco, Lin and Chatham fight for the 2B job, and Chavis, Dalbec, Travis and Ockimey fight for the 1B (back up DH) job.

 

Let DHern, Houck, Johnson, Velazquez and Shawaryn fight for the 5 slot and long relief role.

 

Maybe Ward, Hart or Feltman may be ready by mid season. (Mata by Sept?)

 

Don't spend a penny unless we can stay under the luxury tax and the player looks to be part of a longer term plan.

 

Team control/Age at end of team control (Oct 1st)

0

Porcello 30

Moreland 33

Pearce 36

Cashner 32

Holt 30

Owings 27

(I like Holt, but I doubt we go over the luxury tax to keep him. All others should be gone.)

 

1yr (FA after 2020) Age 10/1/20

Betts 27 (28 on Oct 7, 2020)

JBJ 30

Workman 31

(Betts should probably be traded, if we know we cannot or will not extend or re-sign him. Workman turns 31 and does not have a long track record of success and health. He should probably be traded, assuming a reset.)

 

2yr (FA after 2021) Age on 10/1/2021

ERod 28

Pedey 38

Barnes 31

Hembree 32

(ERod is worth extending or re-signing after the reset. His age is right. Pedey is a no brainer. Barnes and Hembree will likely be gone.)

 

3yr (after 2022)

Price 36

JD 34 (if he doesn't opt out)

Eovaldi 32

Beni 27

Wright 38

Leon 33

(Beni is the only one in this group that might possibly be extended, and he'll be in prime years for 2021 and 2022, if those are the years we plan on being back near the top. If the rebuild is a 3 year plan, I suppose we could trade him.

 

Sale may be traded, if he can build up some stick value and we want to clear budget space for alonger term rebuild.

 

Explore trading anyone who does not look like they are in our plans for or beyond 2021. Maybe even trade guys not under team control or still within near post-prime for 2022.

[sk7326]

Vaz doesn't play every day, Travis is a marginal hitter, JBJ is streaky, going from awful to decent. Right now he is back to bad. When those guys are in the game we sacrafice 3 abs an inning. I'm for improving while cutting payroll everywhere possible. Our top 7 are as good as anyone's but they shouldn't have to carry all the load. We heard the same kind of arguments for the past few years. JBJ hasn't improved but his salary expectations have crept up.

 

I agree that the starting pitching is a key going forward and the BP could use a closer and maybe a couple of good arms. Hard to do that if we wind up offering JBJ a 3 year $21 mil contract, don't you think? I know you didn't suggest that but another did and it sounds like going in the wrong direction.

 

No catcher is going to play more than 110-120 games, just nature of the beast. But the Vasquez we have this year - below average hitter but can hit some homeruns in juiced ball 2019 - is a good player.

[moonslav59]

Vaz doesn't play every day, Travis is a marginal hitter, JBJ is streaky, going from awful to decent. Right now he is back to bad. When those guys are in the game we sacrafice 3 abs an inning. I'm for improving while cutting payroll everywhere possible. Our top 7 are as good as anyone's but they shouldn't have to carry all the load. We heard the same kind of arguments for the past few years. JBJ hasn't improved but his salary expectations have crept up.

 

I agree that the starting pitching is a key going forward and the BP could use a closer and maybe a couple of good arms. Hard to do that if we wind up offering JBJ a 3 year $21 mil contract, don't you think? I know you didn't suggest that but another did and it sounds like going in the wrong direction.

 

Okay, Vaz "doesn't play everyday," but did you know he caught more innings than all but 6 MLB catchers? So, I'd hardly call our catcher position a black hole. Plus, because he was put in the line-up as a non catcher so often, he's 3rd in MLB in PAs among players that are primarily catchers (464 PAs). I'm calling him "everyday," because he bats more than 90% of MLB catchers.

 

I'm not for bringing JBJ back, but I'm not for paying to get a CF'er who can hit either. I'd take an excellent defender and a .600 OPS over an .800 guy who is an average fileder and will cost more than the $21/3 someone wants to offer JBJ.

 

Yes, Travis is a black hole. He's at .701 and falling. My guess is Dalbec, Ockimey, Chatham or even Lin can break the line-up over him, despite not being able to play OF. (Lin can.)

 

If we sign a cheap defensive CF, we'll have one black hole: CF, not 3.

 

I suppose 1B or 2B could become one, but with 3-4 choices at each position, my guess is we can end up with 2 guys or a platoon that hits .750+ at each slot.

 

[moonslav59]

No catcher is going to play more than 110-120 games, just nature of the beast. But the Vasquez we have this year - below average hitter but can hit some homeruns in juiced ball 2019 - is a good player.

 

He may be a below average hitter, but not a below average hitting catcher.

 

Out of 31 catchers with 250+ PAs Vaz places 11th in OPS.

 

3 year sample size?

 

Vaz is 19th in OPS at .700, but some of the guys ahead of him don't play much Catcher anymore or are close to retiring.

 

He's average.

[S5Dewey]

I keep telling you that JBJ is coming back. DD & I sat in the same class: Building a Team 101. Be as solid as you can up the middle even if it means one of those guys has to bat 9th.

 

Also, signing JBJ to a two year contract guarantees that the Sox won't be without both of their premier outfielders in 2021.

 

He'll be back. Book it.

[moonslav59]

I keep telling you that JBJ is coming back. DD & I sat in the same class: Building a Team 101. Be as solid as you can up the middle even if it means one of those guys has to bat 9th.

 

Also, signing JBJ to a two year contract guarantees that the Sox won't be without both of their premier outfielders in 2021.

 

He'll be back. Book it.

 

Again, JBJ is not the only solid defensive CF'er available this winter.

 

If we don't reset, he may be back.

[Slasher9]

Again, JBJ is not the only solid defensive CF'er available this winter.

 

If we don't reset, he may be back.

 

Name them.

[Slasher9]

We can just go to the elite defense gold glove centerfielder forest and pluck one from the tree Or something something

[notin]

We can just go to the elite defense gold glove centerfielder forest and pluck one from the tree Or something something

 

Think Juan Lagares will cost less in free agency than Bradley will in arbitration? What about Cameron Maybin? Billy Hamilton? Jarrod Dyson? Peter Bourjos? Austin Jackson?

 

These are just free agent options. There may be others available via trade.

 

If the goal is solely to save money (for a luxury tax penalty reset?), the Sox might wind up with a lesser all-around player in CF, but some of those players are still good defenders. Or are we going to continue to pretend we live in a world where JBJ is the only player in MLB history who could play defense in CF?

[moonslav59]

Name them.

 

We've named them dozens of times.

[Bellhorn04]

We've named them dozens of times.

 

You kind of upped the ante with 'dirt cheap super defensive CF'er'.

 

The list can only be made up of guys who are available, dirt cheap and super defenders.

[S5Dewey]

I keep telling you that JBJ is coming back. DD & I sat in the same class: Building a Team 101. Be as solid as you can up the middle even if it means one of those guys has to bat 9th.

 

Also, signing JBJ to a two year contract guarantees that the Sox won't be without both of their premier outfielders in 2021.

 

He'll be back. Book it.

 

Post DD's firing now....

 

I'm the immortal words of Emily Littella.... "Never mind".

[moonslav59]

You kind of upped the ante with 'dirt cheap super defensive CF'er'.

 

The list can only be made up of guys who are available, dirt cheap and super defenders.

 

Okay, it may be short list, but that depends on what you think "dirt cheap" means. With JBJ slated to make $9.5 to 11M, the context may up what we consider "dirt cheap."

 

Billy Hamilton should be very cheap.

 

Jarrod Dyson is 35 and could be a nice bridge player for peanuts.

 

notin mentioned others.

[Bellhorn04]

Okay, it may be short list, but that depends on what you think "dirt cheap" means. With JBJ slated to make $9.5 to 11M, the context may up what we consider "dirt cheap."

 

Billy Hamilton should be very cheap.

 

Jarrod Dyson is 35 and could be a nice bridge player for peanuts.

 

notin mentioned others.

 

And I'm not trying to be a pain the ass about it, but it would be cool to see a list of available guys with:

 

1) Estimated 2020 salary.

2) 2019 UZR/150 or some other defensive rating.

[jacksonianmarch]

With DD going out the door, this thread is moot. No more money will be thrown at JBJ. He is a goner

[Slasher9]

You kind of upped the ante with 'dirt cheap super defensive CF'er'.

 

The list can only be made up of guys who are available, dirt cheap and super defenders.

 

thank you.