Sale to IL with elbow injury

[Bellhorn04]

The Sox might even consider just promoting Assistant GM Eddie Romero. He's been with the organization a long time and is from a baseball family (dad played for the Sox). And if Henry wants someone he knows, Romero certainly qualifies. The Sox have certainly had no issue promoting internally to GM before, with Epstein, Cherington, and the oft-forgotten Mike Hazen.

 

I don't know if this is a good thing or not, but the curly-headed scribe already put in his vote for Romero.

[Kimmi]

He improved the pitching rotation superficially. But there was and still is nothing below the top 5 starters. While you can argue the injuries to Sale, Eovaldi and Price were unlucky, they were hardly surprising. Sale ended 2018 with some concerns. Price has had his issues since coming to Boston. And Eovaldi is a frequent visitor the the DL/IL.

 

The bullpen has actually been a pleasant surprise in some ways. I keep expecting Marcus Walden to fall apart, but the man is a Phoenix, repeatedly rising from the ashes of his own poor performances. Workman is having a career year. And Barnes, while up and down, was probably relied on too heavily by Cora early on. And now Josh Taylor looks like he might be carving out his own little niche for 2020. Still, the overall plan to grab a backup 1B in stead of another arm to give more depth in case anything went wrong strikes me as a very poor decision, especially since (unlike me) Dombrowski was aware of the Sox' financial situation.

 

But really the bottom line is this team has struggled since March, and while getting Cashner was a nice idea, we really have not seen anything else from Dombrowski. Rome was burning, and there was Dombrowski, fiddling away with Chris Owings and Joey Curletta. Meanwhile, the Yankees have the best record in the AL, and Cashman still isn't sitting still. Sure, it's extremely unlikely David Hernandez, Tyler Lyons and Trevor Rosenthal contribute in any meaningful way this year, but they are joining his ever-growing fleet of lifeboats. Meanwhile, the Sox have decided to sink or swim with whoever was on board in March and cling to the mantra "they need to play better." And that tactic is simply not working...

 

I really do not disagree with anything here, except for the 'superficial' line about Eovaldi.

 

I am fine with the way Dombrowski handled the off season in terms of the 25 man roster. I am always on board with adding more pitching depth, as much as you can reasonably acquire.

 

As I posted before, I agree that Dombrowski fell asleep in terms of adding more depth, particularly for the pen, and particularly during the season.

[Kimmi]

The Kimmi Fan Club? Lead by Slasher?

 

LOL That works too.

[notin]

I don't know if this is a good thing or not, but the curly-headed scribe already put in his vote for Romero.

 

He's a logical candidate. It's really tough to guess what external folks will be available and interested.

 

And while Shaughnessy has a reputation as a big time cynic, he's still a more perceptive sportswriter than any of the whiners that used to pollute the Herald sports pages in the 1990's and early 2000's. I would read 1,000 Shaughnessy articles before even reading the opening sentence on anything written by Gerry Callahan...

[notin]

I really do not disagree with anything here, except for the 'superficial' line about Eovaldi.

 

I am fine with the way Dombrowski handled the off season in terms of the 25 man roster. I am always on board with adding more pitching depth, as much as you can reasonably acquire.

 

As I posted before, I agree that Dombrowski fell asleep in terms of adding more depth, particularly for the pen, and particularly during the season.

 

The "superficial" comment was not specific to Eovaldi. More about how Dombrowski settled on his starting 5 and then just flat out quit. I heard Epstein on the radio here in Chicago talking about building the Cubs rotation, and he said something to the effect of "we know who the top 5 are, but we still need to settle on starters 6 though 9." We didn't see that this year from DD...

[kenmeister]

Stop Jacko. Just stop.

 

Also, when was the last time you saw a parade?

 

Think you're seeing one this year? Think again.

 

I think the Yankees have a solid chance this year. You may end up eating those words.

[Slasher9]

The Kimmi Fan Club? Lead by Slasher?

 

i do love me some Kimmi.

but she and i also disagree on stuff too. (robo umps, clutch, dWar to name a few).

it's a lovely give and take relationship that i will not ruin by presiding over her fan club.

[FredLynn]

Now that i look at this statement again, that is a massive oversimplification.

 

The 2014 team came in last place. The team might have been "incomplete", whatever that means, but you can't go from first with the same team without a massive change in the player's performance. The Sox only lost two players, and while Ellsbury was still good, he wasn't so good that subtracting him changed the team by 25 wins. And the other player lost was Ryan Dempster, the fifth starter...

 

The 2019 team in on course to lose 23 more games than the 2018 team. The 2014 team lost 26 games more than the previous year. Neither team lost a significant number of players, though the loss of Ellsbury, an everyday player, was probably more important that losing Kimbrel. The 2018 team was a LOT more talented than the 2013 team. Thats the issue I have. With the level of talent the 2018 team had they should at least have been in contention for a playoff spot. They just mailed it in this year. When a team has no talent you really can't complain that they suck. These guys have the talent but didn't do their jobs. Thats in no way the fault of the GM.

[Bellhorn04]

The 2019 team in on course to lose 23 more games than the 2018 team. The 2014 team lost 26 games more than the previous year. Neither team lost a significant number of players, though the loss of Ellsbury, an everyday player, was probably more important that losing Kimbrel. The 2018 team was a LOT more talented than the 2013 team. Thats the issue I have. With the level of talent the 2018 team had they should at least have been in contention for a playoff spot. They just mailed it in this year. When a team has no talent you really can't complain that they suck. These guys have the talent but didn't do their jobs. Thats in no way the fault of the GM.

 

Underperformance can be a difficult thing to figure out.

 

Take a guy like Porcello. I highly doubt that he isn't doing anything but trying his ass off out there every time out. Especially when you consider he's in his walk year and there's a lot of money on the line for him. He's not getting the results, but I don't think it's from a lack of effort.

 

s*** happens.

[FredLynn]

Underperformance can be a difficult thing to figure out.

 

Take a guy like Porcello. I highly doubt that he isn't doing anything but trying his ass off out there every time out. Especially when you consider he's in his walk year and there's a lot of money on the line for him. He's not getting the results, but I don't think it's from a lack of effort.

 

s*** happens.

 

Yup. Guys have bad years. This year Cora failed to have his SPs ready to start the season by severely limiting the number of pitches thrown in ST, a strategy which was predictably faulty. Then you have the kind of brain dead baseball the Sox have exhibited all year, for example, Bogaerts getting thrown out at 3B last night. Just not thinking....they frequently do not have their heads in the game. Thats mental; its mailing it in.

[notin]

The 2019 team in on course to lose 23 more games than the 2018 team. The 2014 team lost 26 games more than the previous year. Neither team lost a significant number of players, though the loss of Ellsbury, an everyday player, was probably more important that losing Kimbrel. The 2018 team was a LOT more talented than the 2013 team. Thats the issue I have. With the level of talent the 2018 team had they should at least have been in contention for a playoff spot. They just mailed it in this year. When a team has no talent you really can't complain that they suck. These guys have the talent but didn't do their jobs. Thats in no way the fault of the GM.

 

But there is some fault in theGM just sitting back and watching it happen.

 

The 2014 team had a fire sale and still only regressed about the same as the 2019 team. The only difference remaining will be that the 2014 team finished in fifth place. The 2019 team will probably finish 3rd place despite the relatively equal regression...

[notin]

Underperformance can be a difficult thing to figure out.

 

Take a guy like Porcello. I highly doubt that he isn't doing anything but trying his ass off out there every time out. Especially when you consider he's in his walk year and there's a lot of money on the line for him. He's not getting the results, but I don't think it's from a lack of effort.

 

s*** happens.

 

And that's part of the problem that does fall on Dombrowski.

 

Porcello is clearly having a horrible season, effort notwithstanding. But he is still out there starting games. Eovaldi is having a horrible season due to injury. He has had his role bounced around, but he is now back in the rotation. DD did got out and get Cashner, who was actually a smart pickup despite his failures at the time. But with all the struggles and injuries in this rotation, why so little effort to improve? Why did DD do nothing else? I get his trade assets were limited, for which he is culpable, but understandably so. But nothing else? Other teams in the playoff race have been at least trying. AS I pointed out on another thread, the Yankees have a killer bullpen, but they keep adding to it. Meanwhile Dombrowski looks at the Sox pitching and says "do better! That's it."

 

It's not his fault Sale and Porcello and Cashner and Eovaldi have struggled. But it is his fault for having no one else to pick up the slack...

[moonslav59]

And that's part of the problem that does fall on Dombrowski.

 

Porcello is clearly having a horrible season, effort notwithstanding. But he is still out there starting games. Eovaldi is having a horrible season due to injury. He has had his role bounced around, but he is now back in the rotation. DD did got out and get Cashner, who was actually a smart pickup despite his failures at the time. But with all the struggles and injuries in this rotation, why so little effort to improve? Why did DD do nothing else? I get his trade assets were limited, for which he is culpable, but understandably so. But nothing else? Other teams in the playoff race have been at least trying. AS I pointed out on another thread, the Yankees have a killer bullpen, but they keep adding to it. Meanwhile Dombrowski looks at the Sox pitching and says "do better! That's it."

 

It's not his fault Sale and Porcello and Cashner and Eovaldi have struggled. But it is his fault for having no one else to pick up the slack...

 

With the budget limits, all he could have done was add more scrubs.

 

I agree, he should have done so, but it's not like he had many choices beyond the Eovaldi & Pearce signings.

[Bellhorn04]

And that's part of the problem that does fall on Dombrowski.

 

Porcello is clearly having a horrible season, effort notwithstanding. But he is still out there starting games. Eovaldi is having a horrible season due to injury. He has had his role bounced around, but he is now back in the rotation. DD did got out and get Cashner, who was actually a smart pickup despite his failures at the time. But with all the struggles and injuries in this rotation, why so little effort to improve? Why did DD do nothing else? I get his trade assets were limited, for which he is culpable, but understandably so. But nothing else? Other teams in the playoff race have been at least trying. AS I pointed out on another thread, the Yankees have a killer bullpen, but they keep adding to it. Meanwhile Dombrowski looks at the Sox pitching and says "do better! That's it."

 

It's not his fault Sale and Porcello and Cashner and Eovaldi have struggled. But it is his fault for having no one else to pick up the slack...

 

I don't really disagree.

 

I'll say this, if you look at 2018, our starting pitching depth was no better than it is this year. Johnson and Velazquez were much bigger helps last year.

[notin]

I don't really disagree.

 

I'll say this, if you look at 2018, our starting pitching depth was no better than it is this year. Johnson and Velazquez were much bigger helps last year.

 

This year, it has been a real problem. I don't mind not taking evasive action when none is needed. But I expect an attempt when it is...

[notin]

With the budget limits, all he could have done was add more scrubs.

 

I agree, he should have done so, but it's not like he had many choices beyond the Eovaldi & Pearce signings.

 

By the end of the offseason, pitchers like Nick Vincent, Francisco Liriano, Tommy Milone, Alex Wilson, Josh Tomlin and numerous others were waiting out opportunities for minor league deals. While not all of them have been successful in MLB this year, some actually have. But Dombrowski tried to sign 0 of them....

[moonslav59]

By the end of the offseason, pitchers like Nick Vincent, Francisco Liriano, Tommy Milone, Alex Wilson, Josh Tomlin and numerous others were waiting out opportunities for minor league deals. While not all of them have been successful in MLB this year, some actually have. But Dombrowski tried to sign 0 of them....

 

I get that and agree. He signed very few scrubs (Erasmo Ramirez and Colten Brewer- a RP'er and traded for only one (Cashner).

 

There were more out there.

 

There were minor deals at the deadline that were not made.

[Kimmi]

I think the Yankees have a solid chance this year. You may end up eating those words.

 

I may end up eating my words, which will have happened a lot this season. Anything can happen once in the playoffs.

 

I just don't have the confidence in the Yankees that many have.

 

That said, they are the luckiest team ever, so they have that going for them.

[Kimmi]

But there is some fault in theGM just sitting back and watching it happen.

 

The 2014 team had a fire sale and still only regressed about the same as the 2019 team. The only difference remaining will be that the 2014 team finished in fifth place. The 2019 team will probably finish 3rd place despite the relatively equal regression...

 

Dombrowski apparently agrees with you.

[Carpin]

I may end up eating my words, which will have happened a lot this season. Anything can happen once in the playoffs.

 

I just don't have the confidence in the Yankees that many have.

 

That said, they are the luckiest team ever, so they have that going for them.

 

I don't have the confidence yet of my yankees going all the way, but Severino and Betances coming back strong in September could be a game changer, Stanton would be nice but those can put us over the top in the postseason

[Kimmi]

I don't have the confidence yet of my yankees going all the way, but Severino and Betances coming back strong in September could be a game changer, Stanton would be nice but those can put us over the top in the postseason

 

IMO, starting pitching will be your downfall. It works against the Os, when the Yankees can just out slug them. Against a team that can pitch well? I'm not so sure.

 

Getting Severino back in ace form would definitely help your cause.

[FredLynn]

This year, it has been a real problem. I don't mind not taking evasive action when none is needed. But I expect an attempt when it is...

 

I agree that he should have tried to add a RP, though budget constraints probably prevented him from getting one of any quality. I would assign maybe 10% of the current problems to DD; I would assign 20% to Cora for not having his team ready to play on opening day and for making so many mistakes this year-but the vast bulk of the blame has to go on the underperforming players, especially our SP.

[Carpin]

IMO, starting pitching will be your downfall. It works against the Os, when the Yankees can just out slug them. Against a team that can pitch well? I'm not so sure.

 

Getting Severino back in ace form would definitely help your cause.

 

Pitching win championships, I'm not so sure SP are the key anymore, but if Severino can come back with no more setbacks, we have a fighting chance, if you remember Severino was a beast the first 2-3 months of last year right after spring training, he's going thru the same process right now, the difference now is that all teams are running at full force and the batters are already in form. but I like our chances if they come back strong (big if). Betances will add to one of the best RP crews in the league, only going up from here.

I don't remember a team with so many injuries in recent memory, even less with a winning record, with the best record in the league??? no way. I feel like this is our year, not fully confident, but I'm getting there.

[FredLynn]

By the end of the offseason, pitchers like Nick Vincent, Francisco Liriano, Tommy Milone, Alex Wilson, Josh Tomlin and numerous others were waiting out opportunities for minor league deals. While not all of them have been successful in MLB this year, some actually have. But Dombrowski tried to sign 0 of them....

 

We both know that signing ANY of those guys would not have changed a thing. None of the would have made up for six games in the lost column.

[FredLynn]

Pitching win championships, I'm not so sure SP are the key anymore, but if Severino can come back with no more setbacks, we have a fighting chance, if you remember Severino was a beast the first 2-3 months of last year right after spring training, he's going thru the same process right now, the difference now is that all teams are running at full force and the batters are already in form. but I like our chances if they come back strong (big if). Betances will add to one of the best RP crews in the league, only going up from here.

I don't remember a team with so many injuries in recent memory, even less with a winning record, with the best record in the league??? no way. I feel like this is our year, not fully confident, but I'm getting there.

 

The playoffs are a crapshoot. The team that wins the ring is usually the team that got hot at the right time. Last year the Sox were hot all year. The Yankees have a chance, but I would think that the Astros and the Dodgers would be co-favorites right now.

[harmony]

I may end up eating my words, which will have happened a lot this season. Anything can happen once in the playoffs.

 

I just don't have the confidence in the Yankees that many have.

 

That said, they are the luckiest team ever, so they have that going for them.

So far the Yankees have experienced an amazing season in the face of adversity.

 

To place the Yankee success into perspective, the current Red Sox record (67-60, .528) is closer to the current record (54-74, .422) of the lowly Seattle Mariners than to the current Yankee record (83-44, .654).

[jacksonianmarch]

IMO, starting pitching will be your downfall. It works against the Os, when the Yankees can just out slug them. Against a team that can pitch well? I'm not so sure.

 

Getting Severino back in ace form would definitely help your cause.

 

We don't need ace form. We need a guy capable of going 4-5 innings and allowing 2 or less runs.

[jacksonianmarch]

The name of the game for the 2019 Yankees is depth. The injuries we have suffered are insane. But the depth is what has set us apart. Depth in the pen with Betances out. Depth in the rotation to some degree with German stepping in for Severino. And to a major degree, depth in the lineup.

 

Our projected healthy opening day lineup was

1. Hicks CF

2. Judge RF

3. Stanton DH

4. Sanchez C

5. Andujar 3B

6. Gregorius SS

7. Torres 2B

8. Voit 1B

9. Gardner LF

 

Hicks misses 6 weeks to start the year, comes back well then hits the shelf again with an arm issue

Judge misses 2 months with an oblique injury

Stanton has missed almost all season with a multitude of maladies

Sanchez has been on the DL twice with lower leg issues

Andujar is out for the season with a shoulder issue

Gregorius missed the first two months due to TJS

Torres missed a week with a core issue, but has avoided the DL

Voit missed time with a core issue, came back and has now been out a month with the same core issue

Gardner missed 2 weeks with a knee issue

 

We traded for EE, he is on the shelf with a broken wrist

Frazier spent two weeks on the shelf with an ankle issue

Maybin missed a month with a calf

Lemahieu missed a week with a groin

 

Crazy, and still we are on pace for well over 100 wins

[moonslav59]

I agree that he should have tried to add a RP, though budget constraints probably prevented him from getting one of any quality. I would assign maybe 10% of the current problems to DD; I would assign 20% to Cora for not having his team ready to play on opening day and for making so many mistakes this year-but the vast bulk of the blame has to go on the underperforming players, especially our SP.

 

We could have had more money for the pen had we not signed Pearce.

 

With about $4M to spend at the break, that could have been 2 pitchers making $6M each this year. I thought that was the idea on why we waited so long.

 

DD could have gotten decent RP'ers had he wanted to. Now, maybe they'd have sucked once they got here- like Cashner as a SP'er.

 

[moonslav59]

We both know that signing ANY of those guys would not have changed a thing. None of the would have made up for six games in the lost column.

 

No, but had DD been perfect and signed Morton and Ottavino, instead of Pearce and Eovaldi, how many wins would that have amounted to?

 

Per Year:

2019:

$24M ($15M Morton +$9M Ottavino)

$23.5M ($17M Eovaldi+ $6.25M Pearce)

 

Total

$74.25M ($68M Eovaldi + $6.25M)

$57M ($30M Morton + $27M Ottavino)

 

We'd have saved $15+M overall, too.