Sale to IL with elbow injury

[moonslav59]

Well, he did post a .901 OPS for us in 50 regular season games last year. Not too shabby.

 

Yes, and perhaps more importantly, he had an .818 OPS the 4 years before 2018. That is so far from "NOTHING," it's not even funny. He averaged over 30 HRs per 650 PAs from 2014-2017!

 

He had an .829 OPS from 2014-2018 (5 years) with about 65 XBHs per 650 PAs.

 

[moonslav59]

Looking ahead, I would like to see the Red Sox sign W.Smith for 2020. They have the resources for him, and then use Chavis as a trade chip for a SP. Dalbec takes over 1b and Hernandez and Chatham battle it out at 2b, freeing up Chavis for a trade.

 

We are looking at an awesome offense for 2020:

 

Betts RF

Devers 3b

Bogaerts SS

Martinez DH

Benintendi LF

Dalbec 1b

Vazquez C

Hernandez/Chatham 2b

Duran CF

 

The difficulty: getting the pitching staff back on track.

 

Chavis might get us a Brian Johnson type pitcher- maybe a little better.

 

A Smith signing would use up about the whole budget, if we are looking to reset.

[jacksonianmarch]

Looking ahead, I would like to see the Red Sox sign W.Smith for 2020. They have the resources for him, and then use Chavis as a trade chip for a SP. Dalbec takes over 1b and Hernandez and Chatham battle it out at 2b, freeing up Chavis for a trade.

 

We are looking at an awesome offense for 2020:

 

Betts RF

Devers 3b

Bogaerts SS

Martinez DH

Benintendi LF

Dalbec 1b

Vazquez C

Hernandez/Chatham 2b

Duran CF

 

The difficulty: getting the pitching staff back on track.

 

You’re as dense as fog in SF. Duran can barely hit in AA. What makes you think he deserves a Gallup to the majors to start 2020?

[SoxHop]

Well here you go - Just read what Chris Sale had to say and I will unequivocally say that anyone posting here who thinks for one minute that this man should not have been reupped is a jackass. You have no clue about what we have. Some of you think that you have so much knowledge about baseball in general which personally I kind of question. You can stick your chests out and rant about how much we overpaid for this old decrepit future HOFamer all you want. he will be back.. Oh and just for the record comparing dombrowski (man) to cherington(boy) is asinine.

 

LOl

[moonslav59]

You’re as dense as fog in SF. Duran can barely hit in AA. What makes you think he deserves a Gallup to the majors to start 2020?

 

I agree, but .647 for your first 250 PAs in AA is not all that bad when you figure he steals a base every 10 PAs.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

Chavis might get us a Brian Johnson type pitcher- maybe a little better.

 

Speculation. You don't know this for certain.

 

Chavis is a young guy with power who can play 2b and has already produced in the major leagues. He has some trade value and could perhaps be part of a deal that brings back a decent cost-controlled starter.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

A Smith signing would use up about the whole budget, if we are looking to reset.

 

You have no idea if the Red Sox plan to reset, stay just under 237m, or blow by 237m.

[moonslav59]

Speculation. You don't know this for certain.

 

Chavis is a young guy with power who can play 2b and has already produced in the major leagues. He has some trade value and could perhaps be part of a deal that brings back a decent cost-controlled starter.

 

Speculation. You don't know this for certain.

 

Chavis in 2019:

 

1.236 First 14 games (6 HRs & 8 XBHs in 58 PAs)

 

.688 Last 81 games (12 HRs & 21 XBHs in 324 PAs)

 

Reminder: CJ Cron was waived after hitting 30 HRs and an .816 OPS. (Okay, he was 28, but HR hitters are a dime a dozen, these days.)

 

Maybe Chavis + Johnson for twice or three times the pitcher as Johnson makes sense.

 

[moonslav59]

You have no idea if the Red Sox plan to reset, stay just under 237m, or blow by 237m.

 

...or stay just under the second line.

 

Yes, we don't know. I was just pointing out that a Smith signing would likely jump us over one line.

[Slasher9]

Well here you go - Just read what Chris Sale had to say and I will unequivocally say that anyone posting here who thinks for one minute that this man should not have been reupped is a jackass. You have no clue about what we have. Some of you think that you have so much knowledge about baseball in general which personally I kind of question. You can stick your chests out and rant about how much we overpaid for this old decrepit future HOFamer all you want. he will be back.. Oh and just for the record comparing dombrowski (man) to cherington(boy) is asinine.

CP with an EPIC smack down.

[notin]

Had we signed Morton & Ottavino, instead of Eovaldi and Pearce, we're still in this thing.

 

It's hit or miss, so I don't blame DD for guessing wrong.

 

As it turned out, we needed a SP'er and 1Bman, but who knew Chavis would do better than Pearce and play more than Moreland?

 

It’s not the guessing wrong that bothers me. It’s the absolute nothing that followed the bad guesses..,

[moonslav59]

It’s not the guessing wrong that bothers me. It’s the absolute nothing that followed the bad guesses..,

 

Zero.

 

Actually, negative.

 

[notin]

Speculation. You don't know this for certain.

 

Chavis is a young guy with power who can play 2b and has already produced in the major leagues. He has some trade value and could perhaps be part of a deal that brings back a decent cost-controlled starter.

 

While a player’s trade value is completely dependent on what another GM thinks he is worth and nothing else, http://www.baseballtradevalues.com values Chavis as being worth $12.0 million, which makes him tradable for maybe a Chris Bassitt. I wouldn’t bother if that was the case...

[notin]

We shouldn't even have to worry about pitching with our bats. Amazing that our pitching blows so bad it's a problem.

 

That appears to have been Dombrowski’s exact stance...

[moonslav59]

That appears to have been Dombrowski’s exact stance...

 

I wish he had built up the pen, but with limited funds, I can see why he did what he did.

 

I thought our pitching was a strength, overall.

[notin]

Well here you go - Just read what Chris Sale had to say and I will unequivocally say that anyone posting here who thinks for one minute that this man should not have been reupped is a jackass. You have no clue about what we have. Some of you think that you have so much knowledge about baseball in general which personally I kind of question. You can stick your chests out and rant about how much we overpaid for this old decrepit future HOFamer all you want. he will be back.. Oh and just for the record comparing dombrowski (man) to cherington(boy) is asinine.

 

Oh cp. Pull up your pants and put away the ruler.

 

I hope Sale bounces back, but I had trepidations about the deal at the time. Not unique to that deal; the same ones I have with any mega contract given to a player 30 or older. I just hoped Dombrowski did his due diligence. And he probably did, despite it not working out.

 

You’re right. We shouldn’t compare Dombrowski to Cherington. Dombrowski isn’t even close, and today was a good lesson in how hypocritical the yardstick is. Cherington’s teams failed? That’s all on Ben. But when Dombrowski’s team fails, it’s on the players.

 

Now what I saw happen was Cherington take over the Sox after a horrific collapse with a team that quit on everyone. Despite dominating the AL through August of 2011, they just quit. That same team largely came back and continued to suck. Same team, but underperforming. Sound familiar? When a good GM like Cherington has a team like that, he pulls of the boldest Trade in team history. He shakes things up. And, despite getting back basically nothing in that trade, still won a World Series 14 months later.

 

Dombrowski? What does he do when the team doesn’t play as well as expected? Anything?

 

Dombrowski inherited a lot of good players and a good farm. But he’s essentially that rich kid with a big allowance whose parents went away for the weekend. He spent everything he had to keep the party going, and when it stopped being fun, he quit on us all and is now ready to have someone else clean up the mess. He’d just assume the help get the vomit out of the chandelier and drain the beer from the fish tank...

[moonslav59]

Here we go again.

[cp176]

LOl

 

ty - effect I was looking for.

[cp176]

CP with an EPIC smack down.

 

"bout time don't you think - kind of boring around here lately! Someone needs to be the designated pain in the ass. lol

[cp176]

Here we go again.

 

hmmm - who was it that brought up Bennie's name just recently? I had all but forgotten about him too. Some people just can't seem to let the past go. I'm a history guy also though.

[cp176]

Oh cp. Pull up your pants and put away the ruler.

 

I hope Sale bounces back, but I had trepidations about the deal at the time. Not unique to that deal; the same ones I have with any mega contract given to a player 30 or older. I just hoped Dombrowski did his due diligence. And he probably did, despite it not working out.

 

You’re right. We shouldn’t compare Dombrowski to Cherington. Dombrowski isn’t even close, and today was a good lesson in how hypocritical the yardstick is. Cherington’s teams failed? That’s all on Ben. But when Dombrowski’s team fails, it’s on the players.

 

Now what I saw happen was Cherington take over the Sox after a horrific collapse with a team that quit on everyone. Despite dominating the AL through August of 2011, they just quit. That same team largely came back and continued to suck. Same team, but underperforming. Sound familiar? When a good GM like Cherington has a team like that, he pulls of the boldest Trade in team history. He shakes things up. And, despite getting back basically nothing in that trade, still won a World Series 14 months later.

 

Dombrowski? What does he do when the team doesn’t play as well as expected? Anything?

 

Dombrowski inherited a lot of good players and a good farm. But he’s essentially that rich kid with a big allowance whose parents went away for the weekend. He spent everything he had to keep the party going, and when it stopped being fun, he quit on us all and is now ready to have someone else clean up the mess. He’d just assume the help get the vomit out of the chandelier and drain the beer from the fish tank...

 

Don't have time to read this yet notin but thanks for the response. I bet I'm going to like what you wrote! later my friend.

[cp176]

Oh cp. Pull up your pants and put away the ruler.

 

I hope Sale bounces back, but I had trepidations about the deal at the time. Not unique to that deal; the same ones I have with any mega contract given to a player 30 or older. I just hoped Dombrowski did his due diligence. And he probably did, despite it not working out.

 

You’re right. We shouldn’t compare Dombrowski to Cherington. Dombrowski isn’t even close, and today was a good lesson in how hypocritical the yardstick is. Cherington’s teams failed? That’s all on Ben. But when Dombrowski’s team fails, it’s on the players.

 

Now what I saw happen was Cherington take over the Sox after a horrific collapse with a team that quit on everyone. Despite dominating the AL through August of 2011, they just quit. That same team largely came back and continued to suck. Same team, but underperforming. Sound familiar? When a good GM like Cherington has a team like that, he pulls of the boldest Trade in team history. He shakes things up. And, despite getting back basically nothing in that trade, still won a World Series 14 months later.

 

Dombrowski? What does he do when the team doesn’t play as well as expected? Anything?

 

Dombrowski inherited a lot of good players and a good farm. But he’s essentially that rich kid with a big allowance whose parents went away for the weekend. He spent everything he had to keep the party going, and when it stopped being fun, he quit on us all and is now ready to have someone else clean up the mess. He’d just assume the help get the vomit out of the chandelier and drain the beer from the fish tank...

 

 

had to read this. you sure that you didn't copy this from our resident president of the Ben Cherington fan club?

[kenmeister]

Well here you go - Just read what Chris Sale had to say and I will unequivocally say that anyone posting here who thinks for one minute that this man should not have been reupped is a jackass. You have no clue about what we have. Some of you think that you have so much knowledge about baseball in general which personally I kind of question. You can stick your chests out and rant about how much we overpaid for this old decrepit future HOFamer all you want. he will be back.. Oh and just for the record comparing dombrowski (man) to cherington(boy) is asinine.

 

I'm happy to be a jackass then. You simply don't give 5 years to a pitcher who was so hurt at the time he couldn't be effective for the entire 2nd half of the season, but has YET to pitch an effective second half of a season since he got here. Sale is a TJ surgery waiting to happen. Even worse, rather than have it now and be back for 2021, they will wait for 2020, when mark my words he will have it in april or may after trying to pitch through pain, and miss all of 2020 and 2021 as well. Maybe he'll be good in 2022? Also, not a future HOFer, sorry.

[jung]

I'm happy to be a jackass then. You simply don't give 5 years to a pitcher who was so hurt at the time he couldn't be effective for the entire 2nd half of the season, but has YET to pitch an effective second half of a season since he got here. Sale is a TJ surgery waiting to happen. Even worse, rather than have it now and be back for 2021, they will wait for 2020, when mark my words he will have it in april or may after trying to pitch through pain, and miss all of 2020 and 2021 as well. Maybe he'll be good in 2022? Also, not a future HOFer, sorry.

 

We should probably turn the discussion of when to extend or if to extend on its ear.

 

Given his late season issues now well documented, given his shoulder injury from 2018, why did we extend at all when we did. Could have just as well waited for Sale to become a FA and it would not have cost us a dime if we wanted him back.

 

It should have been obvious to the Sox that there were issues or they would not have developed a program specifically tailored around the idea that allowing him to work slowly into the season would save him for the end of the season, an effort that obviously FAILED!

Edited August 21, 2019 by jung

[jacksonianmarch]

The timing of his extension was incredibly stupid and will likely cost Dombrowski his job. He was under contract for this year. He finished last year with a mystery shoulder ailment that robbed him of his second half, his playoff effectiveness and his velocity. Then you extend him before he throws another pitch? It was unnecessary. You let this season play out. Listen, if Sale tosses 200IP and was lights out all year last year, then you extend in ST. With how last year ended, you have to be willing to let it play out. DD thought he got a discount, but what he did was throw big money at a broken down former ace and he will likely pay for it with his job

[notin]

had to read this. you sure that you didn't copy this from our resident president of the Ben Cherington fan club?

 

I don’t think I’m in the BC Fan Club so much. It’s more of my anti-Dombrowski stance from this year...

[Bellhorn04]

Given his late season issues now well documented, given his shoulder injury from 2018, why did we extend at all when we did. Could have just as well waited for Sale to become a FA and it would not have cost us a dime if we wanted him back.

 

It would not have cost us a dime if we wanted him back, means what, exactly?

[Bellhorn04]

The timing of his extension was incredibly stupid and will likely cost Dombrowski his job. He was under contract for this year. He finished last year with a mystery shoulder ailment that robbed him of his second half, his playoff effectiveness and his velocity. Then you extend him before he throws another pitch? It was unnecessary. You let this season play out. Listen, if Sale tosses 200IP and was lights out all year last year, then you extend in ST. With how last year ended, you have to be willing to let it play out. DD thought he got a discount, but what he did was throw big money at a broken down former ace and he will likely pay for it with his job

 

DD might lose his job but it won't be because of Sale.

 

John Henry was 200% on board with this, as his comments about blowing it with Lester made eminently clear.

[jung]

It would not have cost us a dime if we wanted him back, means what, exactly?

 

Would another team given Sale $145/5 as a FA? I very very seriously doubt it.

[notin]

DD might lose his job but it won't be because of Sale.

 

Even I agree with that...