7/30 vs Rays Devil

[moonslav59]

SP: 4.1 IP 4 ER

RP: 4.2 IP 2 ER

 

But, we had a blown save, so let's blame the pen and RISP outs made.

[YastrzemskI]

All these games are like playoff games and this team is pulling this ******** against a team they have to beat. Now they have to win the next two games.

 

They sure do. But do they have the guts to do it?

[Oscars]

Another troubling development for Price is that has given up 6 HRs in July after only giving up 1 in June

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

I'm guessing starting tomorrow Hernandez will get the call before the likes of Brewer, Taylor, or Hembree.

[moonslav59]

brief recap

 

Price has a long 3rd inning and comes out wasted in the 4th. That is troubling

Cora leaves him in too long.

Relief pitchers don't seem to know not to walk batters or situational baseball. Keep making mistakes they shouldn't.

Many opportunities to score with RISP and less than two outs and didn't do the little things like hit behind the runner, instead maintaining a big swing.

Devers, Beni and Travis had nice offensive games.

Betts, Martinez, Holt, Bradley not contributing offensively.

 

Another tough loss against a team we must beat. Can't blame Cora a lot except maybe for leaving High Price in too long.

 

JBJ lined out to 3B in a big opportunity. Others seemed to hit it hard and in the right direction, they just went right to the fielder.

[oldtimer]

JBJ lined out to 3B in a big opportunity. Others seemed to hit it hard and in the right direction, they just went right to the fielder.

 

Holt hit three to left field for instance while Vaz struck out when he needed contact. The tony Oliva's make contact and didn't need the HR to be valuable. Cora didn't have a lot of choice except Travis as Chavis probably couldn't have hit the heat. onto tomorrow.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Another troubling development for Price is that has given up 6 HRs in July after only giving up 1 in June

 

In the words of Chester A. Riley: "What a revoltin' development this is."

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

The SOX are 6-7 vs the Rays. The SOX are 1-6 at home, the Rays are 1-5 at home. So much for home field advantage. Edited July 31, 2019 by SPLENDIDSPLINTER

[jung]

I just have a comment on the staff debate. Both ends of it suck. The rotation sucks and the pen sucks. There are a couple of components of each that have performed reasonably well and the rest of them have been damn near terrible when compared to expectation.

 

As to expectation, the starters as a group have without question been the bigger disappointment IMO. That said, we have set them up for that because we bought into the nonsense of the 6 inning "quality start". It and other "allowances" made to starters has worked its magic just as many of us warned and here we are....guys that can't give you a "quality 6" .....CAN'T give you 6 at all.

 

I caught John Smoltz on "High Heat" the MLB Network show just by accident on Tuesday. He just flat came out and said the same thing I have been saying for 5 years now and he flat came out and said this is an issue that goes back 5-10 years. Didn't just happen. Now if anybody actually cares about this game and not the horse s*** MLB and the media and the stat-mastersons wants us to care about it will not solve overnight. We have really dug a hole for ourselves and over dependence on advanced stats is not helping us one bit.

 

I have one for you right away. Forget this OPS+ and ERA+ garbage. It simply corrupts the data because it incorporates multiple weighted factoring in one stat...an absolute no-no. You want to get close to the answer you are looking for in those stats without corrupting your own data? Every team plays 81 at home and 81 away. Publish two additional lines for ERA and OPS, ERA HOME and ERA AWAY and the same for OPS. You will once again have a solid datapoint without Log functions and multiple weighted factoring and assumptions and you will get as close to what ERA+ and OPS+ try to do without using utterly meritless statistically apparatus. Amazingly, you will find that hitters that play 81 in Colorado have better stats there than for the 81 they play on the road, a real shocker there don't you think? No, it won't take into account the effect of travel on players but it will be a clean number, just a hard datapoint. Frankly, there is a sensible cure for what travel is doing to these guys as well.

 

This would have the added benefit of pulling back some of the power that these stat-mastersons now wield over the game. A good many of these jokers need to get a real job. Their purpose is to be hired as consultants and sell books. Thats it!

 

As an aside, I love seeing fielders spread all over the fields based on these statistical orders of merit allowing balls to drop in between them or turning singles into doubles or doubles into triples, or outright outs into hits because that nonsense is entirely out of control now as well. If it were not for the chance of injury I would even enjoy the occasional bouncing off each other like coconuts out there.

Edited July 31, 2019 by jung

[Bellhorn04]

Note to Cora:

Travis is hot. Play him at 1st until he cools off. Moreland won't be missed.I can't believe I have to tell you this.

 

Calm down, armchair wizard.

 

Moreland has an .845 OPS, 13 homers and 38 RBI in only 52 games. He had 2 RBI's last night.

[Maxbialystock]

JBJ lined out to 3B in a big opportunity. Others seemed to hit it hard and in the right direction, they just went right to the fielder.

 

Absolutely true. Of course, early in the game with Price on the mound, Mookie was earning his pay dragging down those liners deep to RF.

 

I usually like a close game, but last night was frustrating.

[Maxbialystock]

I just have a comment on the staff debate. Both ends of it suck. The rotation sucks and the pen sucks. There are a couple of components of each that have performed reasonably well and the rest of them have been damn near terrible when compared to expectation.

 

As to expectation, the starters as a group have without question been the bigger disappointment IMO. That said, we have set them up for that because we bought into the nonsense of the 6 inning "quality start". It and other "allowances" made to starters has worked its magic just as many of us warned and here we are....guys that can't give you a "quality 6" .....CAN'T give you 6 at all.

 

I caught John Smoltz on "High Heat" the MLB Network show just by accident on Tuesday. He just flat came out and said the same thing I have been saying for 5 years now and he flat came out and said this is an issue that goes back 5-10 years. Didn't just happen. Now if anybody actually cares about this game and not the horse s*** MLB and the media and the stat-mastersons wants us to care about it will not solve overnight. We have really dug a hole for ourselves and over dependence on advanced stats is not helping us one bit.

 

I have one for you right away. Forget this OPS+ and ERA+ garbage. It simply corrupts the data because it incorporates multiple weighted factoring in one stat...an absolute no-no. You want to get close to the answer you are looking for in those stats without corrupting your own data? Every team plays 81 at home and 81 away. Publish two additional lines for ERA and OPS, ERA HOME and ERA AWAY and the same for OPS. You will once again have a solid datapoint without Log functions and multiple weighted factoring and assumptions and you will get as close to what ERA+ and OPS+ try to do without using utterly meritless statistically apparatus. Amazingly, you will find that hitters that play 81 in Colorado have better stats there than for the 81 they play on the road, a real shocker there don't you think? No, it won't take into account the effect of travel on players but it will be a clean number, just a hard datapoint. Frankly, there is a sensible cure for what travel is doing to these guys as well.

 

This would have the added benefit of pulling back some of the power that these stat-mastersons now wield over the game. A good many of these jokers need to get a real job. Their purpose is to be hired as consultants and sell books. Thats it!

 

As an aside, I love seeing fielders spread all over the fields based on these statistical orders of merit allowing balls to drop in between them or turning singles into doubles or doubles into triples, or outright outs into hits because that nonsense is entirely out of control now as well. If it were not for the chance of injury I would even enjoy the occasional bouncing off each other like coconuts out there.

 

If anyone doubts the considerable value of game threads for those who need to vent, just read this from jung. Me, I like stats and sometimes even use quality starts, but I share jung's frustration with our rotation, especially our two presumptive aces. I sort of share his frustration with the big shifts, but do remember that Lou Boudreau of the Guardians used the "Williams shift" in the 1940's when he was player-manager of the Guardians. Only 3b and LF stayed to the left--and not very far left--of the line thru 2b.

[Bellhorn04]

jung could write a book about how baseball sucks now. In fact, he already has, if you just cobble together his posts from this year.

[Maxbialystock]

In the words of Chester A. Riley: "What a revoltin' development this is."

 

Williams Bendix. A lot of movies in addition to the Life of Riley. Not a lot of range as an actor, but what he could do was cherce.

[moonslav59]

I just have a comment on the staff debate. Both ends of it suck. The rotation sucks and the pen sucks. There are a couple of components of each that have performed reasonably well and the rest of them have been damn near terrible when compared to expectation.

 

As to expectation, the starters as a group have without question been the bigger disappointment IMO. That said, we have set them up for that because we bought into the nonsense of the 6 inning "quality start". It and other "allowances" made to starters has worked its magic just as many of us warned and here we are....guys that can't give you a "quality 6" .....CAN'T give you 6 at all.

 

I caught John Smoltz on "High Heat" the MLB Network show just by accident on Tuesday. He just flat came out and said the same thing I have been saying for 5 years now and he flat came out and said this is an issue that goes back 5-10 years. Didn't just happen. Now if anybody actually cares about this game and not the horse s*** MLB and the media and the stat-mastersons wants us to care about it will not solve overnight. We have really dug a hole for ourselves and over dependence on advanced stats is not helping us one bit.

 

I have one for you right away. Forget this OPS+ and ERA+ garbage. It simply corrupts the data because it incorporates multiple weighted factoring in one stat...an absolute no-no. You want to get close to the answer you are looking for in those stats without corrupting your own data? Every team plays 81 at home and 81 away. Publish two additional lines for ERA and OPS, ERA HOME and ERA AWAY and the same for OPS. You will once again have a solid datapoint without Log functions and multiple weighted factoring and assumptions and you will get as close to what ERA+ and OPS+ try to do without using utterly meritless statistically apparatus. Amazingly, you will find that hitters that play 81 in Colorado have better stats there than for the 81 they play on the road, a real shocker there don't you think? No, it won't take into account the effect of travel on players but it will be a clean number, just a hard datapoint. Frankly, there is a sensible cure for what travel is doing to these guys as well.

 

This would have the added benefit of pulling back some of the power that these stat-mastersons now wield over the game. A good many of these jokers need to get a real job. Their purpose is to be hired as consultants and sell books. Thats it!

 

As an aside, I love seeing fielders spread all over the fields based on these statistical orders of merit allowing balls to drop in between them or turning singles into doubles or doubles into triples, or outright outs into hits because that nonsense is entirely out of control now as well. If it were not for the chance of injury I would even enjoy the occasional bouncing off each other like coconuts out there.

 

I don't get your distaste for multi-faceted stats. For one, just posting home and away stats, which is already done, does not take into account that no team plays the same away schedule as others- different parks & different opponents are just two major differences. It may not be perfect, but it is not "corruption". It is the opposite. It is trying to uncorrupt simple OPS and ERA.

 

If you don't like 'em, ignore 'em.

 

Plus, hardly anybody uses them to a great extent, anyways, so it's not like they are front and center 24/7.

[Kimmi]

Absolutely true. Of course, early in the game with Price on the mound, Mookie was earning his pay dragging down those liners deep to RF.

 

I usually like a close game, but last night was frustrating.

 

Close games like last night's are the most frustrating, but as I've said before, close games allow for randomness to prevail. It is much, much better for a team to lose a one run game than it is for the team to be blown out. The Rays did not dominate the Sox last night. One ball bouncing differently last night, one ball/strike call going the other way, and the Sox may very well have won that game.

 

All that said, we can't have our starters pitching only 4.1 innings.

[a700hitter]

We had to expect that the Morton game would be a tough game. We should take the remainder of the series.

[Slasher9]

. one ball/strike call going the other way, and the Sox may very well have won that game.

 

Kimmi....it sounds like you would like to join the Robot Umps Now clan? we do have room for you.

[TylerD]

jung could write a book about how baseball sucks now. In fact, he already has, if you just cobble together his posts from this year.

 

Agreed.

 

And that isn't anything bad about Jung because I do really like reading his posts but sometimes in my opinion things just aren't that complicated. I still enjoy baseball very much, but of course going from winning a World Series to not even in a playoff spot makes people edgy and debate different things and argue different things.

 

At the end of the day, sports constantly change and evolve that is just a fact of life. Nothing to do with the suckage of this team. Houston, Oakland, New York all seem to be adapting and doing well. We suck.... Luckily we are still fighting for a playoff spot..... somehow.....

[moonslav59]

We had to expect that the Morton game would be a tough game. We should take the remainder of the series.

 

The sad part is that we got to Morton pretty well.

[Kimmi]

We had to expect that the Morton game would be a tough game. We should take the remainder of the series.

 

I figured Morton would shut us down, pretty much like he did in the last game against us. But, we got to Morton for some runs. That's what stings.

 

Hopefully, we do take the rest of the series.

[Kimmi]

Kimmi....it sounds like you would like to join the Robot Umps Now clan? we do have room for you.

 

Ha. There were some pretty rough calls last night, but no.

 

The solution is not robot umps, but better human umps.

[Bellhorn04]

The solution is not robot umps, but better human umps.

 

The problem is those better human umps will never materialize. These guys are doing their best, I assume. They're not trying to suck.

[Kimmi]

The problem is those better human umps will never materialize. These guys are doing their best, I assume. They're not trying to suck.

 

I'm sure they are trying their best. I think with stronger accountability, we could find human umps that have a better correct call rate. They will never be perfect, which is okay by me.

[a700hitter]

The sad part is that we got to Morton pretty well.

His manager, Clueless Cash got to him better than we did.

[Bellhorn04]

I'm sure they are trying their best. I think with stronger accountability, we could find human umps that have a better correct call rate.

 

Not seeing any moves in that direction.

[jung]

I don't get your distaste for multi-faceted stats. For one, just posting home and away stats, which is already done, does not take into account that no team plays the same away schedule as others- different parks & different opponents are just two major differences. It may not be perfect, but it is not "corruption". It is the opposite. It is trying to uncorrupt simple OPS and ERA.

 

If you don't like 'em, ignore 'em.

 

Plus, hardly anybody uses them to a great extent, anyways, so it's not like they are front and center 24/7.

 

Oh I do ignore them. If somebody could assure me that the people that run our baseball ops ignores them as well I would be blissfully happy. That is likely an unreasonable expectation on my part.

 

I can assure you that using multiple weighted factoring in a single stat line is NOT a statistical process of merit with each added weighted factor beyond one simply reducing the relevance and the value of the stat line developed. Its just the way it is.

 

As for talking about how s***** the baseball is, I would not feel compelled to if people opened their eyes or understood what they were looking at and closed their ears to the MLB PR machine nonsense pumped at us daily. That might also be an unreasonable expectation.

 

Apparently some people will want to believe this is just marvelous until some idiot dreams up a catchy term that suggests a 4 inning start is just wonderful, "openers are rampant, Relief pitchers come in to throw one pitch to one batter, fielders no longer know where the heck they are supposed to be or where they are to throw the ball once they get it and hitters that follow no recognizable approach at the plate are hitting 100 HR's a year.

 

Most of what for some might seem a "utopian" future for MLB won't happen though because if we do not stop worshiping at the altar of pitch velo and spin rate and don't go back to command as the overarching element of pitching, there will be no pitchers to throw baseballs long before any of the rest of that nonsense occurs. Even if we turn pitching around on its heel TODAY, it will take a good five years or longer to backfill MLB and the minors with quality pitchers, guys with talent that know how to pitch.

 

You need 400 pitchers for MLB, another 600 or so for AAA, another 500 for AA and then another 500 in A ball. I would guess that at the current time at least half the MLB pitchers should not be pitching in MLB at all. Half or more of the current AAA pitchers should not ever move up to MLB ball and at least half of the AA and A ball pitchers should be seeking work elsewhere as they should have made a different career decision. You have to cull them from the preponderance of pitchers now broken down before they get out of high school. Its not their fault though really. They have been led down the same velo and spin rate path as the fans have been led down. They are for the most part just accidents waiting to happen.

 

I will repeat an old saw of mine, this from a guy with no love lost for pitchers. Everything on the diamond starts with the ball (now f***ed with beyond all reason) in the hands of a pitcher (a category of player now f***ed with beyond all reason). It will take a good 5 and maybe 10 years to wash through this junk and get back to actual ML level pitching at a reasonable level across MLB.

 

I don't have much to say negative about the hitters because they are just tagging along behind the changes to the baseball, the changes to pitching emphasis, the rule changes and the shift which is as it should be because THE BALL starts in the the hand of THE PITCHER!

Edited July 31, 2019 by jung

[Bellhorn04]

Pitching and pitching strategy cannot be as bad as you make it out to be, jung.

 

Even with the Manfred Missile, major league teams are only averaging 4.5 earned runs a game.

 

Unless you want to credit this fact to the hitters not being very good either (which I suspect is exactly what you want to do).

[Slasher9]

Not seeing any moves in that direction.

 

this is the direction it is headed. it is inevitable.

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/now-calling-balls-and-strikes-robot-umpires-11564401605

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Calm down, armchair wizard.

 

Moreland has an .845 OPS, 13 homers and 38 RBI in only 52 games. He had 2 RBI's last night.

 

Just my opinion, toilet poster.