Swihart DFA

[SCM33]

He won't. But that is not the issue and Leon is simply not that much better than Vaz defensively if at all. You don't think Vaz can hit? Wait till you get a load of 2019 Leon. He is batting .120 in AAA with a .274 OPS.

 

jung, I’ve been arguing it all year. I’ve been arguing it with everyone since spring training. It’s not 1 post about velocity, it’s multi faceted. Every angle you can argue, I’ve argued. Why should I find the post? I’m the one having the argument almost daily.

[Kimmi]

I'm a big Leon supporter, but I am surprised they made this move this quickly.

 

They should never have messed with Leon/Vaz to begin with.

 

That said, this is a panic move all the way. Mirabelli 2.0 .

 

Swihart was never really given a fair chance. The Sox have mishandled Swihart big time. I hate to see him go, but I hope that he gets the chance to play regularly for another team.

[SCM33]

Price does much better with Leon, too, but he has done well without him, so far this year.

 

Correct.

 

Sale better pitch well tonight, or you bet your ass I’m going to be riding him. He better pitch well, no excuse.

[Kimmi]

What are the odds that Blake Swihart will go unclaimed and then optioned to Pawtucket?

 

I will be very surprised if he is not claimed.

[jung]

Price does much better with Leon, too, but he has done well without him, so far this year.

 

Price was the most prepared of an unprepared rotation coming out of ST and it shows. He was the best of the pack from start till now though that is not saying much.

 

Sale appears to be making some progress though slow. Porcello cannot repeat his motion, release point or follow through especially on secondary pitches and from the stretch. Nat can't find the plate and has no idea where the ball is going. ERod was talked into a good start and had the whole first inning directed for him by the coaching staff last time out. So they are basically still a mess but making slow progress. None of the LH starters can throw a consistent Changeup to save his skin...THAT is a big problem getting RH hitters out these days.

 

Spring Training has a purpose and if you allow your rotation to effectively skip it then they are going to be doing ST work during games that count. It ain't rocket science folks. Its just baseball. It might work out in the end if Cora's grand strategy plays out. If not....NOT. It only even has a chance to work if they make it to and through the AL post season. Regular season games all count. So losing them in April is just as bad as losing them in September.

Edited April 16, 2019 by jung

[Kimmi]

I still believe BS is a better option than Vazquez and Leon. They are not sucking because the catching. They suck because they simply suck. In Sale’s case the velo simply isn’t there. BS was simply the scapegoat.

 

It is not Blake's fault that our starting pitching has been so bad.

 

However, if it helps the pitchers' confidence and comfort level, I'm all for bringing Leon back. I just don't like the way the Sox have handled Swihart over his career.

 

It appears that Cora has spoken.

[notin]

They should never have messed with Leon/Vaz to begin with.

 

That said, this is a panic move all the way. Mirabelli 2.0 .

 

Swihart was never really given a fair chance. The Sox have mishandled Swihart big time. I hate to see him go, but I hope that he gets the chance to play regularly for another team.

 

It’s not like they could DFA Swihart right after his brother/close friend passed away...

[Kimmi]

If Porcello and Sale respond well to the return of Leon, then I say f*** those two. If you can't throw effective pitches, don't tell me the catcher is your problem. Swihart , in fact, did not look especially good behind the plate (blocking pitches in place) and his hitting approach looked bad the last few AB's. So , no real objection to the DFA move, but it better not be in response to possible whining from some half assed throwers who are impersonating a couple of the Sox staff.

 

I don't think any of the pitchers have been whining. I really don't.

 

I just think that the team felt like something needed to be done, and Swihart ended up being the scapegoat.

[moonslav59]

It is not Blake's fault that our starting pitching has been so bad.

 

However, if it helps the pitchers' confidence and comfort level, I'm all for bringing Leon back. I just don't like the way the Sox have handled Swihart over his career.

 

It appears that Cora has spoken.

 

If the staff suddenly starts pitching well, one will wonder, but to me, the sample sizes were way to small for anyone (including myself) to say, "I told you so."

[moonslav59]

I don't think any of the pitchers have been whining. I really don't.

 

I just think that the team felt like something needed to be done, and Swihart ended up being the scapegoat.

 

Sometimes, a shake-up is all it takes to jump start a team.

[Kimmi]

This move is so shortsighted. If we don’t see immediate results, this team could tank. This reeeeeks of desperation.

 

I am a Leon fan, and 100% believe in his intangibles with handling a pitching staff.

 

That said, I agree that this is a panic move.

[Jack Flap]

Things are obviously going to improve (unless anyone really believes this is a true-talent 7.00+ ERA rotation)... how much of that improvement will be directly attributable to Leon will be up for debate.

[Kimmi]

I don’t think anyone is blaming Swihart for Sale’s problems. Isn’t it possible the Sox just decided Swihart wasn’t or wasn’t going to work out? Remember these are people who once DFAd a #3 hitter....

 

And the Sox learned this after 17 games in 2019 when they didn't know this after all of his previous seasons with the Sox?

 

The Sox screwed up in choosing Swihart over Leon to begin with. Now they are being very reactionary in DFAing him.

[moonslav59]

I am a Leon fan, and 100% believe in his intangibles with handling a pitching staff.

 

That said, I agree that this is a panic move.

 

I feel the exact same way.

 

The could have called up Leon and IL'd Nunez.

[SCM33]

Things are obviously going to improve (unless anyone really believes this is a true-talent 7.00+ ERA rotation)... how much of that improvement will be directly attributable to Leon will be up for debate.

Correct, it’s a win win for the Leon people.

 

it literally can’t get worse, so just by him showing up.....all his supporters are going to attribute it to him. They could allow 6 runs rather than 9 and still say “told you so” it’s a joke.

 

Chris Sale and Rick Porcello better look like cy young pitchers in their next starts. AErod and Price both threw well to the other guys in recent starts.

Edited April 16, 2019 by SCM33

[Kimmi]

Correct.

 

Sale better pitch well tonight, or you bet your ass I’m going to be riding him. He better pitch well, no excuse.

 

It's almost like you're hoping Sale gets rocked, just so you can say "I told you so."

[Kimmi]

It’s not like they could DFA Swihart right after his brother/close friend passed away...

 

Fair point.

 

I had forgotten that he just lost his brother, and I'm sure that had something to do with the decision.

[Kimmi]

Things are obviously going to improve (unless anyone really believes this is a true-talent 7.00+ ERA rotation)... how much of that improvement will be directly attributable to Leon will be up for debate.

 

This is true. Leon is not going to be the savior to our season. The Sox were going to improve either way. But I do think he will help.

[SCM33]

It's almost like you're hoping Sale gets rocked, just so you can say "I told you so."

 

Its not that. Its sad that these cy young caliber pitchers become inept when they take their binkie away, and I don’t think that Leon makes that much of a difference.

Edited April 16, 2019 by SCM33

[Kimmi]

Its not that. Its sad that these cy young caliber pitchers become inept when they take their binkie away.

 

As I said in other posts, Swihart is not the reason that Sale and the rest of the rotation have pitched poorly. However, I do think that Leon makes a difference.

 

Do you not think that that a pitcher having confidence in and comfort with a catcher affects the way he pitches?

[notin]

Its not that. Its sad that these cy young caliber pitchers become inept when they take their binkie away, and I don’t think that Leon makes that much of a difference.

 

 

But any little difference might help right now...

[jung]

They will be better because work will round them into form. We will not know if this is going to work out unless this team makes it to the ALCS at least. If not....so much for Cora's grand strategy.

 

i think what Cora actually missed was how poorly his everyday players would play and how much he would have to rely on his rotation to win games early. He missed how poorly they would handle carrying all this hardware from 2018 around. JD us the only guy that has handed it well. Why is that not a shock? X is coming out of his funk a bit. The rest...not so much. I think that was really what Cora missed. I am of course engaging in major Monday morning quarterbacking here.

[vegasbob]

Eh.

 

The Sox didn’t DFA a young Johnny Bench. Whether his career got sidetracked or not, the end result is Swihart is a borderline MLB player. And he might never be anything more...

 

Hard to argue that. I was tempted to speculate that by mid summer the Sox would make a major move at catcher by-passing Swihart and Leon, but deferred the speculation because it seemed "too early". Now , I'll say look for a different veteran catcher to show up within 60 days.

Edited April 16, 2019 by vegasbob

[SCM33]

As I said in other posts, Swihart is not the reason that Sale and the rest of the rotation have pitched poorly. However, I do think that Leon makes a difference.

 

Do you not think that that a pitcher having confidence in and comfort with a catcher affects the way he pitches?

 

i think it depends. I think if you are a cy young caliber pitcher making 20+ million a year, , it shouldn’t matter.

[vegasbob]

It's all about the atrocious starting pitching numbers.

 

And it is a panic move. But not one I disagree with.

 

You are right. The time to re-energize this bunch is now , not the end of May. Too bad Swihart had to be the odd man out, but that's high level professional athletics . If it does nothing more than calm the weak minds on the mound, it will be a step in the right direction for a team that quickly lost its way. There may need to be a similar move in the bullpen beyond Walden's demo. Thornburg or Brewer need to check the roster daily going forward.

[Slasher9]

They should never have messed with Leon/Vaz to begin with.

 

That said, this is a panic move all the way. Mirabelli 2.0 .

 

Swihart was never really given a fair chance. The Sox have mishandled Swihart big time. I hate to see him go, but I hope that he gets the chance to play regularly for another team.

 

preach sister Kimmi.

devers 2.0 if you will...

[Slasher9]

I am a Leon fan, and 100% believe in his intangibles with handling a pitching staff.

 

That said, I agree that this is a panic move.

 

agree and agree.

 

#leongate

[Slasher9]

Correct, it’s a win win for the Leon people.

 

it literally can’t get worse, so just by him showing up.....all his supporters are going to attribute it to him. They could allow 6 runs rather than 9 and still say “told you so” it’s a joke.

 

Chris Sale and Rick Porcello better look like cy young pitchers in their next starts. AErod and Price both threw well to the other guys in recent starts.

 

sorry man. you sound like a yankees fan. or 2017 slasher9 in regards to david price...

[vegasbob]

They will be better because work will round them into form. We will not know if this is going to work out unless this team makes it to the ALCS at least. If not....so much for Cora's grand strategy.

 

i think what Cora actually missed was how poorly his everyday players would play and how much he would have to rely on his rotation to win games early. He missed how poorly they would handle carrying all this hardware from 2018 around. JD us the only guy that has handed it well. Why is that not a shock? X is coming out of his funk a bit. The rest...not so much. I think that was really what Cora missed. I am of course engaging in major Monday morning quarterbacking here.

 

Vazquez, Bradley, Nunez, Pearce, Pedroia and Holt all hitting below .200 and especially Mookie at .222/.737 OPS are more indicators of guys not helping the cause.

[Maxbialystock]

Swihart has had all of six starts behind the plate -- hardly enough time for the team to learn anything about him that they didn't know or shouldn't have known in spring training. I'd have understood if he was DFA'd three weeks ago, but to seemingly commit to giving him a chance (risking the loss of the great Sandy via a waiver claim in the process), only to cut him loose so quickly, just reeks of panic and overreaction.

 

I have no doubt that Leon will be good for the pitching staff (most of whom are due for some serious regression to the mean anyway), but at the same time, if we are to believe that this seasoned and extremely talented major league rotation completely lost its ability to pitch effectively due to his absence (the thesis of "Leongate," as I understand it), then that is a disturbing thought in and of itself, and one that doesn't reflect well on them or on the coaching staff...

 

That's not completely true. Swihart started about 84 games in 2015 because of injuries, and I think that experience is why he caught so few games after 2015. Last season he was on the active roster the entire season and didn't get to catch a game until Leon or Vazquez (I forget which one) went on the DL.

 

I honestly wouldn't know a good defensive catcher if he bit me in the ankle, but the indicators from a managerial/coaching point of view suggest they doubted his ability as a catcher after 2015 and still feel that way. FWIW, last year his catching DWAR was -0.4, which is the same DWAR he had as a catcher in 2015 (when the Sox team ERA was 4.31, 25th in MLB).