4/6 @ Arizona DiamondBacks of Arizona

[jacksonianmarch]

That suddenly robust rotation is looking pretty awful.

 

Price has actually been good. 13K in 12IP with a 1.25 WHIP. The runs scored is more an anomaly and should correct.

 

Sale soft tossed his way to a great start in Oakland, but I think Cora is bullshitting everyone with his velocity. He hasn’t shown velocity since his injury and I doubt he ever does. That being said, if Sale can pitch well enough with reduced velocity, then you take it, but his margin is so small now that you’re not going to be able to rely on him being an ace

 

Porcello has been getting rocked mostly due to a dearth of location. Stuff is still there. He’s always been a sinker, slider guy and if he elevates the sinker, he’s done. He does throw a 4 seamer above the zone and gets some K’s, but he’s been otherwise a juggs machine through 2 turns and has walked nearly a batter an inning. He’s the most consistent starter you have, but he’s been awful

 

ERod has shown a loss of velocity and command. He’s the one I’d lump in with Sale as potentially not healthy.

 

Eovaldi is what he is. You guys saw the absolute best of him in the postseason. I’ve seen him be absolutely lights out for a month, only to be absolutely terrible for another. It seems he’s not lost any velocity, but his mediocre ways always seem to creep back in. His contract is gonna be an albatross at some point.

[jung]

That suddenly robust rotation is looking pretty awful.

 

Price has actually been good. 13K in 12IP with a 1.25 WHIP. The runs scored is more an anomaly and should correct.

 

Sale soft tossed his way to a great start in Oakland, but I think Cora is bullshitting everyone with his velocity. He hasn’t shown velocity since his injury and I doubt he ever does. That being said, if Sale can pitch well enough with reduced velocity, then you take it, but his margin is so small now that you’re not going to be able to rely on him being an ace

Porcello has been getting rocked mostly due to a dearth of location. Stuff is still there. He’s always been a sinker, slider guy and if he elevates the sinker, he’s done. He does throw a 4 seamer above the zone and gets some K’s, but he’s been otherwise a juggs machine through 2 turns and has walked nearly a batter an inning. He’s the most consistent starter you have, but he’s been awful

 

ERod has shown a loss of velocity and command. He’s the one I’d lump in with Sale as potentially not healthy.

 

Eovaldi is what he is. You guys saw the absolute best of him in the postseason. I’ve seen him be absolutely lights out for a month, only to be absolutely terrible for another. It seems he’s not lost any velocity, but his mediocre ways always seem to creep back in. His contract is gonna be an albatross at some point.

 

Not sure the Sale comment makes sense since the Sox just and I do mean just signed him to a contract extension that gives him $145M over 4 years from 2020-2024. You are not going to give Sale that kind of money to soft toss his way through 2024. IMO there is zero chance of Sale making the kind of conversion in later years that C.C. made. Sale's motion is too long and contains too many long moving parts for that to be a plan.

 

ERod is not healthy in the head. He never has been and looks more and more like he never will be. ERod has not really lost velo....down about 1 mph and that is nothing. He just does not know how to pitch. May never know at the rate he is going. ERod represents the best case there is for Starters working and building through ST. Nat is the second best reason for Starters getting work and building through ST.

 

It is painfully obvious that Porcello is short arming the baseball. He is not a short armer. He looks to be another example of just not getting nearly enough work in ST as he looks physically unprepared to throw.

Edited April 7, 2019 by jung

[Slasher9]

Love the bullpen

 

Nope. Not a troll post at all. Nothing to see here

[Thunder]

I don't know if I want to put my eyes through the trouble of watching the game today

[jacksonianmarch]

Not sure the Sale comment makes sense since the Sox just and I do mean just signed him to a contract extension that gives him $145M over 4 years from 2020-2024. You are not going to give Sale that kind of money to soft toss his way through 2024. IMO there is zero chance of Sale making the kind of conversion in later years that C.C. made. Sale's motion is too long and contains too many long moving parts for that to be a plan.

 

ERod is not healthy in the head. He never has been and looks more and more like he never will be. ERod has not really lost velo....down about 1 mph and that is nothing. He just does not know how to pitch. May never know at the rate he is going. ERod represents the best case there is for Starters working and building through ST. Nat is the second best reason for Starters getting work and building through ST.

 

It is painfully obvious that Porcello is short arming the baseball. He is not a short armer. He looks to be another example of just not getting nearly enough work in ST as he looks physically unprepared to throw.

 

Porcello would be losing velocity if he was short arming the ball. I’m sure he’s mechanically a mess, but I doubt he’s entirely “short arming”. His breaking ball has been non existent and that’s a problem for a guy like him

[Kimmi]

I never really love or hate any manager. He's probably better than most managers, but doesn't mean we can't criticize his decisions. I just don't get why JD was out of the lineup, and tomorrow he's resting Mookie. They have off days Monday and Wednesday and are playing like s***. Makes no sense.

 

Questioning the manager's decisions is fair game. I never understood why he would rest 2-3 regular players in the same game.

 

Cora was questioned and criticized often last year for resting key players or for not playing a player who was hot. We may not like it, but it got us the WS Ring last season, so IMO, his decisions deserve the benefit of the doubt.

 

What I like about Cora is that he's sticking to his guns. He is not panicking and he is not letting this slow start alter his game plan.

[Kimmi]

The Red Sox have the fewest remaining road games (71) of any team.

 

And there you go.

[jacksonianmarch]

Not sure the Sale comment makes sense since the Sox just and I do mean just signed him to a contract extension that gives him $145M over 4 years from 2020-2024. You are not going to give Sale that kind of money to soft toss his way through 2024. IMO there is zero chance of Sale making the kind of conversion in later years that C.C. made. Sale's motion is too long and contains too many long moving parts for that to be a plan.

 

ERod is not healthy in the head. He never has been and looks more and more like he never will be. ERod has not really lost velo....down about 1 mph and that is nothing. He just does not know how to pitch. May never know at the rate he is going. ERod represents the best case there is for Starters working and building through ST. Nat is the second best reason for Starters getting work and building through ST.

 

It is painfully obvious that Porcello is short arming the baseball. He is not a short armer. He looks to be another example of just not getting nearly enough work in ST as he looks physically unprepared to throw.

 

Sale hasn’t shown the same velocity since his injury. Listen, CC didn’t have a structural problem in his arm, he just had a ton of miles. Sale did have some inflammation and similarly has a ton of miles on his arm, although nowhere near where CC was when he lost his stuff at 32. The Sox made a calculated risk that Sale would take a below market salary for fewer years in exchange for not knowing his effectiveness

[Kimmi]

Exactly that.

The strategy of resting is fine when you are in good shape in the standings, but when you are 2-8 , playing like s*** and can’t beat a weak national league team, you need to change the plan before getting home 2-9.

 

I disagree. If this were August or September, then you change your strategy. The season is a marathon. He cannot manage to win games at any cost at this point.

 

The Red Sox will be fine.

[jung]

Porcello would be losing velocity if he was short arming the ball. I’m sure he’s mechanically a mess, but I doubt he’s entirely “short arming”. His breaking ball has been non existent and that’s a problem for a guy like him

 

Hembree does not lose velo when he shortarms. You can get velo. You just can't get the velo you are used to with control. This is especially true for a guy that is not a hard thrower in the first place. The last and only time Rick averaged 93 on his 4 seam was 2012. You don't pitch a baseball with your arm alone. You mainly direct a pitch with your arm but you throw it from your toes through your forearms.

 

Rick is finishing far too upright for one thing. So he cannot possibly be extending toward the plate as he should as we are used to seeing. In fact one of the surest ways you can tell Hembree short arms is that he finishes too upright. Price finishes upright. But he finishes upright for a difference reason. He rebounds at the end of his motion.

Edited April 7, 2019 by jung

[d-money]

Questioning the manager's decisions is fair game. I never understood why he would rest 2-3 regular players in the same game.

 

Cora was questioned and criticized often last year for resting key players or for not playing a player who was hot. We may not like it, but it got us the WS Ring last season, so IMO, his decisions deserve the benefit of the doubt.

 

What I like about Cora is that he's sticking to his guns. He is not panicking and he is not letting this slow start alter his game plan.

 

Cora can be cool and calm but this team has to start winning games now! You don’t wanna play catch-up. They’re 6 games under 500. They have to make that up.

[jung]

Sale hasn’t shown the same velocity since his injury. Listen, CC didn’t have a structural problem in his arm, he just had a ton of miles. Sale did have some inflammation and similarly has a ton of miles on his arm, although nowhere near where CC was when he lost his stuff at 32. The Sox made a calculated risk that Sale would take a below market salary for fewer years in exchange for not knowing his effectiveness

 

So you want to claim what....that the Sox were STUPID enough to extend Sale $145M over 4 added years into an injury issue?

[jacksonianmarch]

It’s 5 added years and yes, they were

[Kimmi]

Cora can be cool and calm but this team has to start winning games now! You don’t wanna play catch-up. They’re 6 games under 500. They have to make that up.

 

The 2011 team started off horrendously like this, then went on a tear. Of course, they did have the epic September collapse, but the collapse will not happen to this team.

[jung]

It’s 5 added years and yes, they were

 

Utterly no reason for the Sox to have done that. You are claiming that the Sox know its injury related and extended Sales contract anyway to the tune of $28M+ per through 2024. But of course it suits your argument to claim Sox management is dumb as dirt. So you go with that.

 

The extension is too costly and too short if Sale is actually injured and the Sox know it. If he has to hit the operating table, he loses 1 year of the 5 at least if not more than 1 year. Any pitcher can be forced to surgery. But if they know he is injured it would have made more sense to not extend him at this point or extend him at fewer dollars over more years to make up for the time he will lose in surgery and rehab. That said, neither a 5 year or a 7 year extension makes sense if they know he is injured or even suspect that he is injured.

[Kimmi]

It’s 5 added years and yes, they were

 

If they knew or suspected that there was an injury, then giving him that kind of extension would be very stupid.

 

That being the case, the Sox FO was not concerned about Sale's health when the extension was signed.

[jung]

Rumor has it that Sale passed his contract mandated physical taken late in March. The Sox would surely have seen him pitch by then.

[Larry Cook]

Rumor has it that Sale passed his contract mandated physical taken late in March. The Sox would surely have seen him pitch by then.

 

I do not think that is a rumor. I think it is absolutely true. Signing is almost always contingent on passing a physical.

 

I wonder if they did a full detail, mri, etc?

 

Also, someone needs to interview dan Lavigne and ask him what he was seeing with our starters in the bullpen sessions for the month of March! I’m pretty sure even Ray Charles can see that our pitchers are really struggling to locate pitches.

[jung]

I do not think that is a rumor. I think it is absolutely true. Signing is almost always contingent on passing a physical.

 

I wonder if they did a full detail, mri, etc?

 

Also, someone needs to interview dan Lavigne and ask him what he was seeing with our starters in the bullpen sessions for the month of March! I’m pretty sure even Ray Charles can see that our pitchers are really struggling to locate pitches.

 

Given the Sox history with Contract mandated physicals for pitchers you could knock me over with a feather if that was not a very thorough physical.

[Bellhorn04]

Given the Sox history with Contract mandated physicals for pitchers you could knock me over with a feather if that was not a very thorough physical.

 

Why would they bother with a thorough physical? There was only one hundred and forty-five million dollars on the line.

[jacksonianmarch]

The Sox took on a lot of risk and Sale left a lot of money on the table. But there were zero indications that his arm was entirely healthy or that his stuff had returned. This was a premature contract, IMO. Also, DD’s history suggests he’s good at building his team, but his extension history is spotty at best

[Bellhorn04]

This was a premature contract, IMO.

 

It's easy for us to say it was premature. But it seems to me in a lot of cases players say they don't want to negotiate once the season starts, meaning you either get the extension done or the player goes to free agency.

 

It all depends on the health of Sale's arm. If he's got a hidden injury then it's a screwup by someone.

[jad]

 

ERod is not healthy in the head. He never has been and looks more and more like he never will be. ERod has not really lost velo....down about 1 mph and that is nothing. He just does not know how to pitch. May never know at the rate he is going. ERod represents the best case there is for Starters working and building through ST. Nat is the second best reason for Starters getting work and building through ST.

 

 

Serious question: what does it mean to "not know how to pitch." Catcher calls pitch and location. Is this just a figure of speech (ERod can't put the ball where he wants)? Or that under pressure, he's not willing, say, to throw a strike?

[jung]

Serious question: what does it mean to "not know how to pitch." Catcher calls pitch and location. Is this just a figure of speech (ERod can't put the ball where he wants)? Or that under pressure, he's not willing, say, to throw a strike?

 

 

Posted this in in the tread from ERod's Oakland start. Its gives a pretty good idea of what I mean:

A catcher cannot delve all the way into the head of his pitcher and the knowledge of which pitch the pitcher wants to throw against which batter and in what situation. Really that only resides inside the pitcher's head. The Pitcher really knows how his arm feels that day. The Pitcher is the guy who actually KNOWS or should know what pitch he has confidence in throwing to this batter in this situation and on this day. The Catcher can be a great help but that is all he can be. The Catcher does not reside inside the pitcher's head.

 

Now with ERod, has he EVER shown that he has any idea which pitches he wants to throw to which batter in what situation? Is there a particular pitch he has any real confidence in or are there only pitches he has no confidence in at all vs pitches he is sort of neutral about? The glass appears to always be half empty for Erod and that is a rotten way to pitch.

 

Take the Sale start in Oakland were a poster and I started talking about Sale beginning to land his Slider. Sale had nothing going for him at that point. But he found 1 pitch that he could land. A Pitcher starts landing a pitch while he is struggling and you know what the Catcher does? The Catcher starts calling for it more and in more places. What the frigg else is the Catcher supposed to do.

 

Too many times, ERod just leaves the Catcher, regardless of which one it is, just groping for something that ERod himself appears confident he can throw and sure enough, they get to the end of 5 innings at best, ERod has thrown a million pitches and the catcher still does not know what the heck ERod wants to throw! I have never seen a Starting Pitcher head out to the mound with no earthly idea what he wants to throw and no apparent idea how to figure it out more often than ERod. No wonder he ends up eventually throwing this lame duck up to the plate that just gets hit to Mars.

 

I ask you to search your memory banks Sox fans or watch for it next time ERod starts. As a Starter, how often does he look like he is just lost and then nurses some lame duck of a pitch up to home plate totally lacking in any confidence in what he is doing out there? Said lame duck gets hit to Mars usually after giving up the customary BB.

Edited April 7, 2019 by jung

[d-money]

All these teams in the division are starting to take care of business and this team is playing mediocre baseball.

[moonslav59]

Posted this in in the tread from ERod's Oakland start. Its gives a pretty good idea of what I mean:

A catcher cannot delve all the way into the head of his pitcher and the knowledge of which pitch the pitcher wants to throw against which batter and in what situation. Really that only resides inside the pitcher's head. The Pitcher really knows how his arm feels that day. The Pitcher is the guy who actually KNOWS or should know what pitch he has confidence in throwing to this batter in this situation and on this day. The Catcher can be a great help but that is all he can be. The Catcher does not reside inside the pitcher's head.

 

Now with ERod, has he EVER shown that he has any idea which pitches he wants to throw to which batter in what situation? Is there a particular pitch he has any real confidence in or are there only pitches he has no confidence in at all vs pitches he is sort of neutral about? The glass appears to always be half empty for Erod and that is a rotten way to pitch.

 

Take the Sale start in Oakland were a poster and I started talking about Sale beginning to land his Slider. Sale had nothing going for him at that point. But he found 1 pitch that he could land. A Pitcher starts landing a pitch while he is struggling and you know what the Catcher does? The Catcher starts calling for it more and in more places. What the frigg else is the Catcher supposed to do.

 

Too many times, ERod just leaves the Catcher, regardless of which one it is, just groping for something that ERod himself appears confident he can throw and sure enough, they get to the end of 5 innings at best, ERod has thrown a million pitches and the catcher still does not know what the heck ERod wants to throw! I have never seen a Starting Pitcher head out to the mound with no earthly idea what he wants to throw and no apparent idea how to figure it out more often than ERod. No wonder he ends up eventually throwing this lame duck up to the plate that just gets hit to Mars.

 

I ask you to search your memory banks Sox fans or watch for it next time ERod starts. As a Starter, how often does he look like he is just lost and then nurses some lame duck of a pitch up to home plate totally lacking in any confidence in what he is doing out there? Said lame duck gets hit to Mars usually after giving up the customary BB.

 

Great post. The data supports the idea that the catcher makes very little difference with ERod. (Other pitchers, however, clearly do better with specific catchers.)

 

EEod with catchers:

 

3.78 Hanigan (221 PAs)

4.00 S Leon (415)

4.38 Vaz (1200)

4.44 Swihart (325)

 

Now look at Sale:

2.42 Leon (1250)

4.06 Vaz (260)

0 PAs against with Swihart

 

Price

2.83 Leon (769)

4.39 Vaz (1162)

5.30 Holaday (88)

5.73 Swihart (48)

 

Not much difference with Porcello:

4.14 Leon (2030)

4.34 Vaz (583)

4.93 Swihart (524)

 

The sample sizes with Eovaldi are very small...

2.95 Vaz (91)

3.86 Leon (146)

5.40 Swihart (23)