Chavis

[Bellhorn04]

The added muscle goes away?

 

Mark McGwire's certainly did.

[S5Dewey]

Mark McGwire's certainly did.

 

But how long does it take? I'm sure Mcwire didn't wake up one morning and say, "Holy s***! What happened to my body during the night??"

[Bellhorn04]

But how long does it take? I'm sure Mcwire didn't wake up one morning and say, "Holy s***! What happened to my body during the night??"

 

Yes, I'm sure it's a gradual process.

[Kimmi]

It's curious that SoxProspects was silent on the PED suspension in its 600-word write-up of Michael Chavis, its top-ranked Sox prospect:

 

http://soxprospects.com/players/chavis-michael.htm

 

I wonder if most sites mention PED suspensions in their write ups about their prospects.

[Kimmi]

Yeah, that's the way I feel too. Off them now and never touch them again, that is.

 

I certainly hope Chavis doesn't use again.

 

I know the way that I feel when watching someone like Nelson Cruz beat us with a home run. All I can think is that he's a cheating bastid.

[harmony]

I wonder if most sites mention PED suspensions in their write ups about their prospects.

MLB Prospect Watch prominently mentions PED suspensions in its write-ups of prospects Forrest Whitley of the Astros, Michael Chavis of the Red Sox, Griffin Conine of the Blue Jays and Oscar De La Cruz of the Cubs:

 

http://m.mlb.com/prospects/2019?list=prospects

 

From an Astros prospect site:

 

http://www.astrosfuture.com/2018/02/astros-top-five-starting-pitching-prospects-2018/

 

... and a Cubs site:

 

https://www.bleedcubbieblue.com/2019/1/16/18184346/top-20-cubs-prospects-countdown-aramis-ademan-dillon-maples-trent-giambrone-alex-lange

 

... and a Blue Jays site:

 

https://futurebluejays.com/2018/11/21/conine-releases-statement-regarding-ped-suspension/

Edited March 1, 2019 by harmony

[moonslav59]

Mark McGwire's certainly did.

 

All of it in 2 years?

 

(I assume, if you work out you can retain some or most of the muscle gained through PEDS, even after you stop taking them, but I admit, I am no expert on the subject.)

[Larry Cook]

I think chavis’s early success has gotten into his head. Lately he has been lunging at pitches and swinging at breaking stuff outside the zone.

 

He needs to calm down, clear the head and get a bit more selective again.

[Bellhorn04]

All of it in 2 years?

 

(I assume, if you work out you can retain some or most of the muscle gained through PEDS, even after you stop taking them, but I admit, I am no expert on the subject.)

 

I'm no expert on PED's either. But from what I've read one of the big advantages of PED's is the increased stamina they give when you're working out and lifting weights, which makes it possible to get bigger and stronger much more quickly.

[cp176]

All of it in 2 years?

 

(I assume, if you work out you can retain some or most of the muscle gained through PEDS, even after you stop taking them, but I admit, I am no expert on the subject.)

 

I have never done them but I know plenty of people who have and no the effects do not suddenly disappear. If you continue to workout the right way, the power just does not quietly slip away. I just think that it is naive and a touch hypocritical when people start yapping about how they would never sign anyone who has ever used. It is a persona prerogative I guess but I won't be that guy who thinks that using steroids or something akin to them does not continue to be widespread. Not talking about you here Moon - just making a comment. Personally, I suspect many of our alleged Red Sox heroes of recent years could have used and we have no clue about it. i don't live in a perfect world so I choose to not judge. If they use and they are caught they pay the price. They use again and are caught they pay a more severe price.

[cp176]

I'm no expert on PED's either. But from what I've read one of the big advantages of PED's is the increased stamina they give when you're working out and lifting weights, which makes it possible to get bigger and stronger much more quickly.

 

 

Very true - much fewer aches and pains after workouts as well.

[Bellhorn04]

I have never done them but I know plenty of people who have and no the effects do not suddenly disappear. If you continue to workout the right way, the power just does not quietly slip away. I just think that it is naive and a touch hypocritical when people start yapping about how they would never sign anyone who has ever used. It is a persona prerogative I guess but I won't be that guy who thinks that using steroids or something akin to them does not continue to be widespread. Not talking about you here Moon - just making a comment. Personally, I suspect many of our alleged Red Sox heroes of recent years could have used and we have no clue about it. i don't live in a perfect world so I choose to not judge. If they use and they are caught they pay the price. They use again and are caught they pay a more severe price.

 

Yeah, we would certainly not want to know the names of every single player who has used them.

[cp176]

Yeah, we would certainly not want to know the names of every single player who has used them.

 

Or is using them currently. i also believe that in most cases where this is smoke, there is likely to be fire. Not all of the time but when the rumors start flying it seems that more often then not there is some truth in the story.

[Jack Flap]

It's curious that SoxProspects was silent on the PED suspension in its 600-word write-up of Michael Chavis, its top-ranked Sox prospect:

 

http://soxprospects.com/players/chavis-michael.htm

 

Not all that curious. They reported on the suspension at the time it happened, and have mentioned it many times since then...as Bellhorn said, it's common knowledge now, so it's not like anyone is trying to hide it. I would guess that when that report was written up, it was simply overlooked.

[notin]

Not all that curious. They reported on the suspension at the time it happened, and have mentioned it many times since then...as Bellhorn said, it's common knowledge now, so it's not like anyone is trying to hide it. I would guess that when that report was written up, it was simply overlooked.

 

 

No. Harmony is right. It’s part of a global conspiracy to cover up the criminal past of Michael Chavis. First, soxprospects.com “conveniently” forgets about Chavis’ past. Then ESPN does. This time tomorrow - CNN won’t be talking about it either. And before you know it, the whole world HAS FORGOTTEN ABOUT IT!!! And Michael Chavis can UNLEASH UNHOLY TERROR ON ALL MLB PITCHING!!!!

 

What? He can anyway? You say he served his punishment and it’s over?

 

 

Oh.

 

Never mind...

[Kimmi]

MLB Prospect Watch prominently mentions PED suspensions in its write-ups of prospects Forrest Whitley of the Astros, Michael Chavis of the Red Sox, Griffin Conine of the Blue Jays and Oscar De La Cruz of the Cubs:

 

http://m.mlb.com/prospects/2019?list=prospects

 

From an Astros prospect site:

 

http://www.astrosfuture.com/2018/02/astros-top-five-starting-pitching-prospects-2018/

 

... and a Cubs site:

 

https://www.bleedcubbieblue.com/2019/1/16/18184346/top-20-cubs-prospects-countdown-aramis-ademan-dillon-maples-trent-giambrone-alex-lange

 

... and a Blue Jays site:

 

https://futurebluejays.com/2018/11/21/conine-releases-statement-regarding-ped-suspension/

 

In that case, it is somewhat interesting that Sox Prospects did not mention the PEDs suspension.

[Bellhorn04]

In that case, it is somewhat interesting that Sox Prospects did not mention the PEDs suspension.

 

Jack Flap says they reported on it a number of other times though.

[harmony]

Jack Flap says they reported on it a number of other times though.

The current SoxProspect write-up of Michael Chavis includes much information that had been reported earlier:

 

Career Notes: Committed to Clemson before signing. Played shortstop, third base, and outfield in high school. Participated in 2014 and 2015 Fall Instructional League. Missed six weeks of the 2016 season with a left thumb injury, then broke a finger two weeks after coming off of the DL and didn’t tell the team until September about the newer injury, leading in part to poor numbers after a great start. An elbow injury originally suffered before the start of the 2017 season put him on the DL for 11 days after playing in the season opener and limited him to DH duty until early May. Did not play back-to-back days at third base until the end of May. Improved previously crude approach by taking meticulous notes about plate appearances since 2017. A non-roster invitee to MLB Spring Training in 2018, suffered an oblique injury early in camp and was shut down. Consensus top 100 prospect entering 2018 season.

http://soxprospects.com/players/chavis-michael.htm

 

Not right or wrong but merely curious.

 

Regarding the "Consensus top 100 prospect entering 2018 season" reference, Chavis was ranked among the Top 100 prospects by Baseball America, MLB.com and Keith Law but not by Baseball Prospectus and John Sickels at Minor League Ball.

Edited March 2, 2019 by harmony

[moonslav59]

I have never done them but I know plenty of people who have and no the effects do not suddenly disappear. If you continue to workout the right way, the power just does not quietly slip away. I just think that it is naive and a touch hypocritical when people start yapping about how they would never sign anyone who has ever used. It is a persona prerogative I guess but I won't be that guy who thinks that using steroids or something akin to them does not continue to be widespread. Not talking about you here Moon - just making a comment. Personally, I suspect many of our alleged Red Sox heroes of recent years could have used and we have no clue about it. i don't live in a perfect world so I choose to not judge. If they use and they are caught they pay the price. They use again and are caught they pay a more severe price.

 

I understand, but I've always been kinds tough on cheaters, and I think I would be hypocritical, after yapping about Yankee cheaters, to suddenly embrace Chavis or forgive him. If he joins the Sox, I will root for him as hard as anyone else, but if we could get something nice by trading him, I wouldn't be upset. (I would not want to trade him, if we didn't have Dalbec and Casas.)

[vegasbob]

Given the Career Notes comments in Harmony's post, my concern wouldn't be the past PED use but rather the numerous injuries and lost time in Chavis' development.

[Kimmi]

Jack Flap says they reported on it a number of other times though.

 

Fair enough.

 

I suppose they are assuming that the people who frequent Sox Prospects would already know this information.

[Bellhorn04]

Fair enough.

 

I suppose they are assuming that the people who frequent Sox Prospects would already know this information.

 

Someone else here said that.

[Kimmi]

Someone else here said that.

 

I know.

 

Hence the italicized word 'are', to emphasize my agreement with you.

[cp176]

I understand, but I've always been kinds tough on cheaters, and I think I would be hypocritical, after yapping about Yankee cheaters, to suddenly embrace Chavis or forgive him. If he joins the Sox, I will root for him as hard as anyone else, but if we could get something nice by trading him, I wouldn't be upset. (I would not want to trade him, if we didn't have Dalbec and Casas.)

 

It would be wonderful if we lived in a pure and perfect world. There are many ways to cheat and many cheaters who have never been caught. My guess actually would be that the Hall of Fame currently has a fair share of them who have already been enshrined. I'm glad that I am not a member of the sanctimonious crew who gets to pretend that they have never done anything wrong in their lives.

[moonslav59]

It would be wonderful if we lived in a pure and perfect world. There are many ways to cheat and many cheaters who have never been caught. My guess actually would be that the Hall of Fame currently has a fair share of them who have already been enshrined. I'm glad that I am not a member of the sanctimonious crew who gets to pretend that they have never done anything wrong in their lives.

 

I don't disagree with anything here.

 

I've certainly done my share of wrong in my lifetime. The thing about this cheating is that although he has "paid the price" for his cheating, he still is likely reaping the benefits of the PED usage. It's like a a bank robber doing his time but being allowed to keep the money.

 

[Dojji]

I don't want to go the everyone-cheats route. Chavis paid his dues and will be under scrutiny. Hopefully he stays clean from here on in. He's got a lot of talent, hope he gets to use it for us in time.

 

Moonslav: I disagree with you -- muscle mass and muscle density gradually fade over time if not maintained, it doesn't take many months for the effects of PEDs to fade, that's why players have to take the risk of ensuring a constant supply, which is how a lot of them have gotten caught, such as Roger Clemens and Peyton Manning. Assuming he hasn't found another way to dodge the drug tests and is still taking, which I earnestly hope not for his own sake, any benefit from PED abuse per se has probably gone, with the obvious exception of the wear-and-tear that he recovered from more easily while he was taking

[moonslav59]

 

Moonslav: I disagree with you -- muscle mass and muscle density gradually fade over time if not maintained, it doesn't take many months for the effects of PEDs to fade, that's why players have to take the risk of ensuring a constant supply, which is how a lot of them have gotten caught, such as Roger Clemens and Peyton Manning. Assuming he hasn't found another way to dodge the drug tests and is still taking, which I earnestly hope not for his own sake, any benefit from PED abuse per se has probably gone, with the obvious exception of the wear-and-tear that he recovered from more easily while he was taking

 

So, he cheats to build muscle mass, becomes a big power hitter, and then works hard to maintain the muscle mass.

 

That's all good with you?

 

Why do you assume he stopped working out, and nothing is left over from PED use?

 

Maybe it is, but there's a significant chance the PED use is still helping him today.

 

[Slasher9]

Anabolic helps you recover faster so you can do more frequent weight lifting and sets. When you stop using you cannot work out nearly as much and the extra muscle/extra power will start to fade almost immediately. You can still do your normal workout but that will only maintain your normal muscles developed naturally pre juice.

[Bellhorn04]

I know.

 

Hence the italicized word 'are', to emphasize my agreement with you.

 

Sorry, I Mister Magoo'd the italics.

[Bellhorn04]

So, he cheats to build muscle mass, becomes a big power hitter, and then works hard to maintain the muscle mass.

 

That's all good with you?

 

Why do you assume he stopped working out, and nothing is left over from PED use?

 

Maybe it is, but there's a significant chance the PED use is still helping him today.

 

 

I believe Slasher is correct, the benefits are probably long gone by now.