Sox sign Zack Putnam....

[Kimmi]

I agree that Theo was excellent at that.

 

But it must also be noted that the rules in this area have changed substantially, and the 'reward' for letting a free agent walk is pretty small now.

 

Duly noted. It will be more difficult for Dombrowski to replenish the farm under these new rules.

[moonslav59]

Comp picks are not what they used to be for several reasons:

 

1) It's harder to get them.We used to get 2 for some players.

 

2) They are later in the order than before.

 

3) Now that slot money is in place, you no longer have difficult-to-sign draftees falling to the lower first round/comp pick areas.

 

Just look at the difference in our comp picks over the years and note the change:

 

2005:

Ellsbury & Lowrie (for OCab)

Hansen & Bowden (DLowe)

Buccholz & Egan (Pedro)

2006:

Bard & K Johnson (J Damon)

C. Clay (Mueller)

2007:

NHagadone (Alex Gonzo)

RDent (Foulke)

2008:

BPrice (Gagne)

SFife (H Morris)

2009:

none

2010:

KVitek &ARanaudo (BWagner)

BBrentz & B Workman (JBay)

2011:

MBarnes & HOwens (VMart)

BSwihart & JBJ (ABeltre)

2012:

Brian Johnson & P Light (Papelbon)

2013:

none

2014:

MKopech (Ellsbury)

2015:

none

2016:

none

2017:

none

2018:

none

 

Look at some of the players we got through comp picks. Look ar some of the players we got by trading some of these comp picks. Look how few we've gotten in the last few years (1 in the last 6 years).

 

Now, factor in international bonus money restrictions, and low draft picks due to winning plus drops in slots due to luxury tax penalties.

 

Building a good farm will not be easy under these circumstances. One could argue it might be close to impossible.

 

 

 

[kenmeister]

Comp picks are not what they used to be for several reasons:

 

1) It's harder to get them.We used to get 2 for some players.

 

2) They are later in the order than before.

 

3) Now that slot money is in place, you no longer have difficult-to-sign draftees falling to the lower first round/comp pick areas.

 

Just look at the difference in our comp picks over the years and note the change:

 

2005:

Ellsbury & Lowrie (for OCab)

Hansen & Bowden (DLowe)

Buccholz & Egan (Pedro)

2006:

Bard & K Johnson (J Damon)

C. Clay (Mueller)

2007:

NHagadone (Alex Gonzo)

RDent (Foulke)

2008:

BPrice (Gagne)

SFife (H Morris)

2009:

none

2010:

KVitek &ARanaudo (BWagner)

BBrentz & B Workman (JBay)

2011:

MBarnes & HOwens (VMart)

BSwihart & JBJ (ABeltre)

2012:

Brian Johnson & P Light (Papelbon)

2013:

none

2014:

MKopech (Ellsbury)

2015:

none

2016:

none

2017:

none

2018:

none

 

Look at some of the players we got through comp picks. Look ar some of the players we got by trading some of these comp picks. Look how few we've gotten in the last few years (1 in the last 6 years).

 

Now, factor in international bonus money restrictions, and low draft picks due to winning plus drops in slots due to luxury tax penalties.

 

Building a good farm will not be easy under these circumstances. One could argue it might be close to impossible.

 

 

 

 

Wow that's sobering. Also neat to see how Orlando Cabrera turned into Jacoby Ellsbury who turned into Michael Kopech who turned into Chris Sale.

[moonslav59]

Wow that's sobering. Also neat to see how Orlando Cabrera turned into Jacoby Ellsbury who turned into Michael Kopech who turned into Chris Sale.

 

The gift that just keeps giving!

 

Maybe we get a nice comp pick for Sale.

 

[jacksonianmarch]

Comp picks now are tied to spending. If you are below the cap, your comp pick is after the first round. Those are very valuable picks. If you’re over the cap, those picks are after the 4th round. Those picks aren’t valuable at all

[a700hitter]

David Ortiz. There's the diamond in the rough type player that I'm talking about.

He was the rarest of diamonds— a HOF bag on waivers in his 20’s. Thank goodness Pedro told Theo to sign him. Theo was content to give the job to jeremy Giambi.

[notin]

He was the rarest of diamonds— a HOF bag on waivers in his 20’s. Thank goodness Pedro told Theo to sign him. Theo was content to give the job to jeremy Giambi.

 

The fact that Theo signed Ortiz really does show he wasn’t all that content with Giambi. Pedro May have recommended Ortiz - the type of recommendation that happens everyday in the MLB off-season- but Theo still listened and did his due diligence and then signed Ortiz.

 

The way people like to retell the story, one would think Pedro kidnapped Theo and hid him in the basement while Pedro personally negotiated with Ortiz’ agent....

[Kimmi]

Comp picks now are tied to spending. If you are below the cap, your comp pick is after the first round. Those are very valuable picks. If you’re over the cap, those picks are after the 4th round. Those picks aren’t valuable at all

 

All the more reason not to spend like drunken sailors.

 

I absolutely hate that the Sox' payroll is so high. I appreciate Henry's willingness to spend, and I'm not giving back our WS trophy, but I really do not like that we have to have such a high payroll to get there.

[Kimmi]

The fact that Theo signed Ortiz really does show he wasn’t all that content with Giambi. Pedro May have recommended Ortiz - the type of recommendation that happens everyday in the MLB off-season- but Theo still listened and did his due diligence and then signed Ortiz.

 

The way people like to retell the story, one would think Pedro kidnapped Theo and hid him in the basement while Pedro personally negotiated with Ortiz’ agent....

 

Theo is the man. Period.

 

Pedro is the man too. But for different reasons.

[moonslav59]

The fact that Theo signed Ortiz really does show he wasn’t all that content with Giambi. Pedro May have recommended Ortiz - the type of recommendation that happens everyday in the MLB off-season- but Theo still listened and did his due diligence and then signed Ortiz.

 

The way people like to retell the story, one would think Pedro kidnapped Theo and hid him in the basement while Pedro personally negotiated with Ortiz’ agent....

 

Ortiz had some nice numbers with Minnesota, but he was mostly used as a platoon. His numbers vs lefties were bad, at times, but he sure came into his own in Boston.

 

Thanks, Theo!

 

[oldtimer]

All the more reason not to spend like drunken sailors.

 

I absolutely hate that the Sox' payroll is so high. I appreciate Henry's willingness to spend, and I'm not giving back our WS trophy, but I really do not like that we have to have such a high payroll to get there.

 

Yes, we all know that we have some expensive talent. Price's contract looked bad at the time, not because he lacked talent, but 7 years at $31 Mil AAV for an experienced pitcher carries a high risk and puts limits on whaat the team can do.

 

Then Panda's current overhanging $18 million is a major imposition to the club. Add to that the high risk of Pedey's contract for $13 mil and we have done it to ourselves.

 

DD probably will keep the total beyond the second tier luxury tax limit by signing lower cost talent for less years and possibly by trading away a piece or two with a total contract value of around $7 million to give us a little more flexibility.

[Kimmi]

Yes, we all know that we have some expensive talent. Price's contract looked bad at the time, not because he lacked talent, but 7 years at $31 Mil AAV for an experienced pitcher carries a high risk and puts limits on whaat the team can do.

 

Then Panda's current overhanging $18 million is a major imposition to the club. Add to that the high risk of Pedey's contract for $13 mil and we have done it to ourselves.

 

DD probably will keep the total beyond the second tier luxury tax limit by signing lower cost talent for less years and possibly by trading away a piece or two with a total contract value of around $7 million to give us a little more flexibility.

 

As long as the players are producing, those big contracts are fine. Inevitably, they turn into albatross contracts though. It's hard for any team to eat that kind of money. We are fortunate that Henry is willing to do so.

 

Regardless of whether the Red Sox can afford it or not, I just don't like that way of building a team.

 

When I become the first female GM of the Red Sox, I'm going with a mostly home-grown team that's supplemented with short contract, 2nd tier players. I'll build a dynasty. Look out baseball!

[moonslav59]

2019:

Not luxury tax dollars)

$18.5M Sandoval

$13.1M Pedroia

$11.0M Castillo

 

Over $42M!

 

Edited December 27, 2018 by moonslav59

[Bellhorn04]

2019:

Not luxury tax dollars)

$18.5M Sandoval

$13.1M Pedroia

$11.0M

 

Over $42M!

 

 

And the Yanks have Ellsbury on the books for 2 more years at 22 mill AAV.

[oldtimer]

2019:

 

When will they ever learn? When will they ever Learn? Seems like I have heard that refrain before.

[moonslav59]

2019:

 

When will they ever learn? When will they ever Learn? Seems like I have heard that refrain before.

 

...gone to graveyards, everyone..."

[Bellhorn04]

2019:

 

When will they ever learn? When will they ever Learn? Seems like I have heard that refrain before.

 

There's nothing to learn, honestly. Pedroia's deal looks bad because he got injured. He certainly won't be the last player whose contract ends up looking bad because they got injured.

[moonslav59]

 

There's nothing to learn, honestly. Pedroia's deal looks bad because he got injured. He certainly won't be the last player whose contract ends up looking bad because they got injured.

 

Yes. All teams take risks. We don't win 4 rings since 2004 without taking many,

 

The bad ones seem to never go away in our minds, but we've had so many good ones from Dan D to Theo to Ben to DD.

[dgalehouse]

 

Yes. All teams take risks. We don't win 4 rings since 2004 without taking many,

 

The bad ones seem to never go away in our minds, but we've had so many good ones from Dan D to Theo to Ben to DD.

Although it's been said many times, many ways ; the big market, big money teams are better equipped to absorb the occasional mistake. It's good to be the big money team.

[Bellhorn04]

Although it's been said many times, many ways ; the big market, big money teams are better equipped to absorb the occasional mistake. It's good to be the big money team.

 

It is good. And my hat's off to the people who support the team financially, including the folks here that attend actual games.

[Kimmi]

There's nothing to learn, honestly. Pedroia's deal looks bad because he got injured. He certainly won't be the last player whose contract ends up looking bad because they got injured.

 

The point is, don't give out these big contracts. And I say that as someone who was a big fan of the Pedroia contract.

[Kimmi]

Although it's been said many times, many ways ; the big market, big money teams are better equipped to absorb the occasional mistake. It's good to be the big money team.

 

Ha.

[Bellhorn04]

The point is, don't give out these big contracts. And I say that as someone who was a big fan of the Pedroia contract.

 

That's kind of contradictory.

[Kimmi]

That's kind of contradictory.

 

Right. I've learned from my mistakes.

[Bellhorn04]

Right. I've learned from my mistakes.

 

How about the Porcello contract - was that too big?

[Kimmi]

How about the Porcello contract - was that too big?

 

No, it was not.

[Bellhorn04]

No, it was not.

 

I agree. But why do you see Pedroia's extension as too big now?

 

Porcello's was 4 years, 82.5 million - 20.625 avg.

Pedroia's was 7 years, 100 million - 14.286 avg.

 

Pedroia's was longer, obviously, but with a considerably lower AAV, and the total was only 17.5 million more.

[moonslav59]

I agree. But why do you see Pedroia's extension as too big now?

 

Porcello's was 4 years, 82.5 million - 20.625 avg.

Pedroia's was 7 years, 100 million - 14.286 avg.

 

Pedroia's was longer, obviously, but with a considerably lower AAV, and the total was only 17.5 million more.

 

The big difference to me, and I liked both signings, was this...

 

37 Pedroia's age on last year of deal

 

30 Porcello's age on his last year.

 

Porcello's deal was ideal. Only 4 years and the ages were all in prime (27, 28, 29 & 30).

[notin]

Porcello’s contract might be one of the most perfectly timed contracts in MLB.

 

He probably won’t have better years than his ones in Boston under that contract. It kicked in as he was peaking, and will probably end close to when he starts declining...

[Kimmi]

I agree. But why do you see Pedroia's extension as too big now?

 

Porcello's was 4 years, 82.5 million - 20.625 avg.

Pedroia's was 7 years, 100 million - 14.286 avg.

 

Pedroia's was longer, obviously, but with a considerably lower AAV, and the total was only 17.5 million more.

 

1. I consider any contract over 4 years to be a long term contract. Four years is not necessarily 'long term', depending on the player. If you recall, I was okay with Hanley's contract too.

2. The number of years is a big thing for me. I have said many times that I prefer to pay of higher AAV for fewer years than the other way around. Even though the total contract amount is not too different between the two, there is a huge difference between 4 years and 7 years.

3. Porcello was entering his prime, Pedroia was not.

 

I will admit that I have defended Pedroia's contract many times, mostly because he was signing at such a low AAV (team discount). I am at the point now where I would not give that many years.

 

Mookie's situation is not that dissimilar to what Pedroia's was.