Sox sign Zack Putnam....

[moonslav59]

What about Crawford?

 

And AGon.

[Bellhorn04]

What about Crawford?

 

Some stars live up to expectations and some don't.

[moonslav59]

Don't get me wrong, I was a huge fan of Theo, but there a very striking difference in major deals made before the great Nomar trade and after.

 

Up to and including Nomar:

 

Todd Walker for Thigpen & Blanco

David Ortiz, Ramiro Mendoza, Mike Timlin, Bill Mueller& Bill Haselman

Bronson Arroyo & Bruce Chen claimed off waivers

B-H Kim for Hillenbrand

Papelbon and David Murphy drafted

Kevin Millar & Gabe Kapler for cash

Mike Gonzalez & S Sauerbeck for Brandon Lyons & Anasracio Martinez

Scott Williamson for Phil Dumatrait

Jeff Supan, Lyons, A Martinez for Freddy Sanchez & M Gonzalez

Lou Merloni for Miniel

Keith Foulke, Jeff Bailey, Bobby Jones, Mike Timlin, Pokey Reese, Frank Castillo signed

Curt Schilling for Jorge de la Rosa, Cassey Fossum & B Lyon

Lenny DiNardo rule 5

Mark Bellhorn from Colorado

Pedey, C Meredith & Steve Pearce drafted

Orlando Cabrera & D Mientkiewicz for Nomar Garciaparra & Matt Murton

 

Mike Myers off waivers

Dabid Wells, E Renteria (we ended up paying $32M for 1 year), Matt Clement, Wade Miller, John Olerud, F Dubront signed

Ellsbury, Hansen, Buchholz, Lowrie drafted

Alex Cora for Ramon Vazquez

David Paoley & Jay Payton for Dave Roberts

 

Josh Beckett, Mike Lowell & G Mota for HRam, Anibal Sanchez & others

 

Mike Loretta for Mirabelli

Andy Marte for Renteria & cash

JT Snot, J Tavarez, T Graffanino, C Breslow, Alex Gonzalez signed

Coco Crisp & David Riske for A Marte, K Shoppach & G Mota

Willy Mo Pena for B Arroyo

Mirabelli for Josh Bard & Cla Meredith

Daniel Bard, J Masterson, R Kalish, B Belt, Lars Anderson drafted

Javy Lopez for Adam Stern

Carlos Pena signed

Eric Hinske for cash

George Kottaras for David Wells

JD Drew, Dice-K, Julio Lugo, Okajima, A Castillo, J Piniero signed

Middlebrooks drafted

Eric Gagne for Gabbard and David Murphy

Sean Danielson for J Piniero

Curt Schilling, M Timlin & Mike Lowell re-signed

Daniel Nava & Bartolo Colon signed

 

I'm guessing those deals after 2007 are still in people's memories.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[a700hitter]

What about Crawford?

Where would he stack up with Pedro, Manny, Price, Sale and JD. He doesn’t belong in that class.

[a700hitter]

And AGon.

He was a great hitter, but it just didn’t work out while he was here, but he was fun to watch hit.

[a700hitter]

Some stars live up to expectations and some don't.

Crawford was never in that class of stars. It was the worst move in Theo’s tenure.

[moonslav59]

He was a great hitter, but it just didn’t work out while he was here, but he was fun to watch hit.

 

I was thrilled when we got him and predicted 50 HRs. He did well here, but he quickly broke down afterwards.

 

Thank you, Ben, for trading CC, Beckett and AGon. The money saved and FA signings like Uehara, Napoli and Vic brought us a ring during a time we were supposed to be rebuilding.

[moonslav59]

Crawford was never in that class of stars. It was the worst move in Theo’s tenure.

 

The Beckett re-signing might be second worst. Julio Lugo, Jose Offerman and others are probably far behind.

[a700hitter]

The Beckett re-signing might be second worst. Julio Lugo, Jose Offerman and others are probably far behind.

I think Offerman was on Duquette's watch. Matt "Cement head" Clement was a bad signing by Theo.

[notin]

Where would he stack up with Pedro, Manny, Price, Sale and JD. He doesn’t belong in that class.

 

Just asking if you got excited. He was certainly a superstar and a lot of fans were excited.

 

He was a massive flop, however...

[notin]

I think Offerman was on Duquette's watch. Matt "Cement head" Clement was a bad signing by Theo.

 

 

No one was more critical of Duquette’s signing and subsequent comments about Offerman. “Jose Offerman is one of the best offensive players in the game.”

 

But in hindsight, I have to give Duquette some credit. While not among the game’s best, Offerman was actually a very good offensive addition to the Sox...

[Kimmi]

To each his/her own. I enjoy getting superstars like Price, Sale and JD and watching them play for the Sox. Not since the other DD picked up Pedro and Manny have we had big guns like this latest group come to Fenway. It pushes a team to a whole different level. I enjoy the value guys, but the big boys make it fun for me.

 

I always enjoy watching guys like Price, Sale, and JD, and I'm always happy to have them on my team, though I am usually not happy with the cost of acquiring them. With those guys, you know they're going to be stars.

 

But as I've said several times, I am much more impressed by the acquisitions of Pearce, Eovaldi, and Brasier. They might not be the stars, but their contributions to the team are just as important.

[Bellhorn04]

I always enjoy watching guys like Price, Sale, and JD, and I'm always happy to have them on my team, though I am usually not happy with the cost of acquiring them. With those guys, you know they're going to be stars.

 

But as I've said several times, I am much more impressed by the acquisitions of Pearce, Eovaldi, and Brasier. They might not be the stars, but their contributions to the team are just as important.

 

I'm easy to please. I love how all those moves worked out for us this year.

[Kimmi]

I'm easy to please. I love how all those moves worked out for us this year.

 

Any team who's willing to pay the price can acquire the big boys.

 

It's much more difficult to produce your own superstars or to find the diamonds in the rough. That's all I'm saying.

[Bellhorn04]

Any team who's willing to pay the price can acquire the big boys.

 

It's much more difficult to produce your own superstars or to find the diamonds in the rough. That's all I'm saying.

 

Producing your own superstars is pretty rare, and when it does happen, it's generally because of a very high draft pick-or blind luck. Mookie Betts was blind luck, because there were innumerable opportunities for other teams to grab him before we did.

[moonslav59]

Producing your own superstars is pretty rare, and when it does happen, it's generally because of a very high draft pick-or blind luck. Mookie Betts was blind luck, because there were innumerable opportunities for other teams to grab him before we did.

 

While true, I don't think other teams used the "twitch test" on him and found out he was off-the-charts great.

 

We do deserve some credit for that.

 

[notin]

While true, I don't think other teams used the "twitch test" on him and found out he was off-the-charts great.

 

We do deserve some credit for that.

 

 

And yet the Sox still took Jordan Weems, Noe Ramírez, and Williams Jerez ahead of him...

[moonslav59]

And yet the Sox still took Jordan Weems, Noe Ramírez, and Williams Jerez ahead of him...

 

Maybe they knew Betts would still be there in the 5th round, since nobody else scouted him.

[notin]

Maybe they knew Betts would still be there in the 5th round, since nobody else scouted him.

 

That’s a mighty big gamble for a player labeled a future superstar. Which of Ramírez, Weems or Jerez justifies that risk? Heck, what player drafted by any team in those rounds would have justified that gamble?

 

The Occam’s Razor of the whole idea is they liked those players better than Betts at the time. But Betts became a superstar on his own....

[moonslav59]

That’s a mighty big gamble for a player labeled a future superstar. Which of Ramírez, Weems or Jerez justifies that risk? Heck, what player drafted by any team in those rounds would have justified that gamble?

 

The Occam’s Razor of the whole idea is they liked those players better than Betts at the time. But Betts became a superstar on his own....

 

I'm not saying we knew Betts was going to be a superstar, but I'm pretty sure teams draft players they like less than later picks, because they know the better player will not be drafted by their next pick. It's probably not a common event.

 

[dgalehouse]

I'm not saying we knew Betts was going to be a superstar, but I'm pretty sure teams draft players they like less than later picks, because they know the better player will not be drafted by their next pick. It's probably not a common event.

 

I have to think that if the Sox had any inkling of just how good Betts was , they would not have waited that long to pick him. You don't take those kind of chances.

[Bellhorn04]

I have to think that if the Sox had any inkling of just how good Betts was , they would not have waited that long to pick him. You don't take those kind of chances.

 

That's for sure.

[moonslav59]

I have to think that if the Sox had any inkling of just how good Betts was , they would not have waited that long to pick him. You don't take those kind of chances.

 

They picked him almost solely on the basis of the "twitch test" they and only they gave him. I doubt they were sure he'd be anything close to what he has become, but I think they also knew nobody else would take him. They probably could have drafted him in the 10th round, but they drafted him in the 5th "to be sure."

 

Of course, I am just speculating, and we'll probably never know when they might have chosen him, if others had scouted him, and they felt a threat he might be taken early.

 

I realize I could be very wrong, and they simply valued him as the best 5th round pick when the pick came to therm.

 

[dgalehouse]

They picked him almost solely on the basis of the "twitch test" they and only they gave him. I doubt they were sure he'd be anything close to what he has become, but I think they also knew nobody else would take him. They probably could have drafted him in the 10th round, but they drafted him in the 5th "to be sure."

 

Of course, I am just speculating, and we'll probably never know when they might have chosen him, if others had scouted him, and they felt a threat he might be taken early.

 

I realize I could be very wrong, and they simply valued him as the best 5th round pick when the pick came to therm.

 

And just a reminder to everyone: If you haven't had your " twitch test " yet , get it done now . It doesn't hurt and you will be better off for it.

[Bellhorn04]

And just a reminder to everyone: If you haven't had your " twitch test " yet , get it done now . It doesn't hurt and you will be better off for it.

 

I don't need a twitch test. I already know I'm very twitchy.

[moonslav59]

And just a reminder to everyone: If you haven't had your " twitch test " yet , get it done now . It doesn't hurt and you will be better off for it.

 

They tested me last week, but they're still waiting for my twitch to occur.

[Kimmi]

Producing your own superstars is pretty rare, and when it does happen, it's generally because of a very high draft pick-or blind luck. Mookie Betts was blind luck, because there were innumerable opportunities for other teams to grab him before we did.

 

Betts is mostly in a category of his own. I'm not just talking about him, but I'm also talking about any of the home grown starters that we have.

 

Sure, it takes some luck, but it goes back to having a strong farm system. Theo was the king of grabbing those supplementary draft picks from his departing free agents. Maybe some of them didn't amount to anything, but the more you have, the better the chances that a Betts or even a JBJ will emerge.

 

And that also includes not trading away your prospects in mass volume.

[Kimmi]

They picked him almost solely on the basis of the "twitch test" they and only they gave him. I doubt they were sure he'd be anything close to what he has become, but I think they also knew nobody else would take him. They probably could have drafted him in the 10th round, but they drafted him in the 5th "to be sure."

 

Of course, I am just speculating, and we'll probably never know when they might have chosen him, if others had scouted him, and they felt a threat he might be taken early.

 

I realize I could be very wrong, and they simply valued him as the best 5th round pick when the pick came to therm.

 

 

The other thing is, once you draft a player, knowing not to trade said player away.

 

Yes, there was probably some luck in getting Betts. But there was more to it than just luck.

[Kimmi]

David Ortiz. There's the diamond in the rough type player that I'm talking about.

[Bellhorn04]

Betts is mostly in a category of his own. I'm not just talking about him, but I'm also talking about any of the home grown starters that we have.

 

Sure, it takes some luck, but it goes back to having a strong farm system. Theo was the king of grabbing those supplementary draft picks from his departing free agents. Maybe some of them didn't amount to anything, but the more you have, the better the chances that a Betts or even a JBJ will emerge.

 

I agree that Theo was excellent at that.

 

But it must also be noted that the rules in this area have changed substantially, and the 'reward' for letting a free agent walk is pretty small now.