Who is the greatest under-the-radar player in Sox history?

[cp176]

Yes, sending his contract a day late was a total travesty.

 

Luis Tiant was great and deserved a ring, but sadly, we had little so little behind him.

 

It's no coincidence that we never won a ring until we had 2 aces and more pitching depth than any teams in the 70's, 80's and 90's.

 

 

Do you think that we New Englanders just learn slowly are are we just too stubborn to change? lol This year's team with all things factored took me back to a time that for me the only real game in town was baseball.

[moonslav59]

Do you think that we New Englanders just learn slowly are are we just too stubborn to change? lol This year's team with all things factored took me back to a time that for me the only real game in town was baseball.

 

We spent a lot of money back in some of those years, but mostly on big power hitters. It seemed like every fan knew the reason we never won was due to lack of better pitching. Even guys like Tiant we largely lucky acquisitions that didn't cost a lot. We did go out and get the Mike Torrez's and Mike Boddickers here and there, but always just one.

 

We didn't win until we added Schilling to Pedro. We didn't win once we lost Pedro, until we added Beckett. We didn;t win with just Lester, until we added Lackey. We didn't win with just Price, until we added Sale (and Porcello).

[harmony]

Zane Smith, whom I covered as a small-town sportswriter when the lefthander was in high school:

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/smithza01.shtml

 

Smith posted a negative 0.6 bWAR (but a 2.4 fWAR) in his only season with the Red Sox.

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=1012218&position=P

[moonslav59]

Zane Smith, whom I covered as a small-town sportswriter when the lefthander was in high school:

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/smithza01.shtml

 

Smith posted a negative 0.6 bWAR (but a 2.4 fWAR) in his only season with the Red Sox.

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=1012218&position=P

 

Yeh, he should have been enough to lead us to a ring.

 

(LOL)

[Kimmi]

L

 

I wouldn’t want him on my team today. He’s like 45 years old...

 

Add him to my list, along with Hanley and Buchholz.

 

Also, Kevin Millar.

[Kimmi]

Not unless he were to shed about 45 lbs. Have you seen him lately?? LOL

 

LOL I have not, but he's always been a 'hefty' guy. His legs are like tree trunks.

[Kimmi]

Oh and since this has kind of become a thread about reminiscing over beloved players in the team's past -- I feel Mike Lowell deserves to be brought up. I loved Lowell a lot. Not the flashiest player by any means but he had power, had very good hands at third base, and was a master of using the Monster, always good for a clutch double while he was here. Shouldn't have re-signed him after 2007 but considering he was a throw-in on a deal for another player he did us proud.

 

Good call on Mike Lowell.

[cp176]

Not unless he were to shed about 45 lbs. Have you seen him lately?? LOL

 

If we were offered either one right now - current age, current condition - I would still go with the Hall of Famer here - the greatest catcher the Sox have had and probably one of the few who people even consider in the same conversation as Johnny Bench. It is amazing to me how some seem to lack the historical perspective that others have. it isn't just an age thing either. My 6 year old Grandson asked me today whether Mookie was the greatest right fielder of all time. One of my jobs is to help educate this future athlete. Maybe someday for Mookie but not quite yet. Tek was good but not great, Fisk was great. here is what I told the little man- All due respect to today's players to - right field = Clemente - greatest hitter =Ted (without a doubt) - greatest player Willie

 

I surely loved me some Varitek but really not in the same conversation with Carlton.

[notin]

If we were offered either one right now - current age, current condition - I would still go with the Hall of Famer here - the greatest catcher the Sox have had and probably one of the few who people even consider in the same conversation as Johnny Bench. It is amazing to me how some seem to lack the historical perspective that others have. it isn't just an age thing either. My 6 year old Grandson asked me today whether Mookie was the greatest right fielder of all time. One of my jobs is to help educate this future athlete. Maybe someday for Mookie but not quite yet. Tek was good but not great, Fisk was great. here is what I told the little man- All due respect to today's players to - right field = Clemente - greatest hitter =Ted (without a doubt) - greatest player Willie

 

I surely loved me some Varitek but really not in the same conversation with Carlton.

 

I take it your looking st RF defense only. Otherwise, Clemente over Ruth, Aaron and Musial seems questionable to me...

[cp176]

I take it your looking st RF defense only. Otherwise, Clemente over Ruth, Aaron and Musial seems questionable to me...

 

My Grandson asked me whether or not Mookie Betts was the greatest right fielder of all time - I am thinking that he meant right fielder. That is how I answered his question. I have learned a great deal over the years and one of the things that I have learned is to not go into great depth when answering a 6 year olds question.

but just so you know - all around right fielders - hmm possible I would still go with Clemente. they were all just so damn great that I don't think that you could go wrong with which ever one you went with.

[OH FOY]

When I see history, I see guys who spent their entire career here. Or at least 90%. Not guys who were here for a few years. Ted Williams called Dom DiMaggio one of the most Underrated players ever. Good enough for me. 11 years here, plus lost 3 of his best years in the War. Supposed to be even better playing Center then his brother. I still think he holds the consecutive games hit, in Sox history. Edited December 2, 2018 by OH FOY!

[moonslav59]

If we were offered either one right now - current age, current condition - I would still go with the Hall of Famer here - the greatest catcher the Sox have had and probably one of the few who people even consider in the same conversation as Johnny Bench. It is amazing to me how some seem to lack the historical perspective that others have. it isn't just an age thing either. My 6 year old Grandson asked me today whether Mookie was the greatest right fielder of all time. One of my jobs is to help educate this future athlete. Maybe someday for Mookie but not quite yet. Tek was good but not great, Fisk was great. here is what I told the little man- All due respect to today's players to - right field = Clemente - greatest hitter =Ted (without a doubt) - greatest player Willie

 

I surely loved me some Varitek but really not in the same conversation with Carlton.

 

I'm a huge VTek fan, but I agree. Fisk was on another level.

[notin]

My Grandson asked me whether or not Mookie Betts was the greatest right fielder of all time - I am thinking that he meant right fielder. That is how I answered his question. I have learned a great deal over the years and one of the things that I have learned is to not go into great depth when answering a 6 year olds question.

but just so you know - all around right fielders - hmm possible I would still go with Clemente. they were all just so damn great that I don't think that you could go wrong with which ever one you went with.

 

 

You know, maybe 15 years from now you’ll be answering that same question by saying “Of course Mookie is the best ever! Next to him, Stan Musial looked like a garden gnome out there!!”

[moonslav59]

You know, maybe 15 years from now you’ll be answering that same question by saying “Of course Mookie is the best ever! Next to him, Stan Musial looked like a garden gnome out there!!”

 

Good one!

 

Stan the man garden gnome!

[cp176]

You know, maybe 15 years from now you’ll be answering that same question by saying “Of course Mookie is the best ever! Next to him, Stan Musial looked like a garden gnome out there!!”

 

I hope so!!! Not the part about Stan the man though.

[cp176]

When I see history, I see guys who spent their entire career here. Or at least 90%. Not guys who were here for a few years. Ted Williams called Dom DiMaggio one of the most Underrated players ever. Good enough for me. 11 years here, plus lost 3 of his best years in the War. Supposed to be even better playing Center then his brother. I still think he holds the consecutive games hit, in Sox history.

 

I like it. If Dom had just been in center on that faithful day in '46.

[S5Dewey]

IMO we can't compare players of different generations. The longer they've been gone the bigger they get.

[cp176]

IMO we can't compare players of different generations. The longer they've been gone the bigger they get.

 

I agree to a certain extent. Not though when comparing Fisk to Varitek. lol

[Bellhorn04]

I agree to a certain extent. Not though when comparing Fisk to Varitek. lol

 

I loved Pudge, but I was disappointed in him when he went to the other Sox. I know the front office screwed up, but he could have worked things out and stayed.

[cp176]

I loved Pudge, but I was disappointed in him when he went to the other Sox. I know the front office screwed up, but he could have worked things out and stayed.

 

I know. I was so so disappointed about that one. I actually had my red sox faith shaken for a while but then we came up with that big rookie pitcher and the world started to look a little baseball brighter to me!

[Bellhorn04]

I know. I was so so disappointed about that one. I actually had my red sox faith shaken for a while but then we came up with that big rookie pitcher and the world started to look a little baseball brighter to me!

 

There was a pretty bleak 5 years or so in between.

[cp176]

There was a pretty bleak 5 years or so in between.

 

I wonder if you were as excited as I was when the rocket came along. He looked as much like a sure thing as I could have imagined. he suffered thorough a couple of early injuries and just exploded. My excitement level came back in a hurry.

[notin]

IMO we can't compare players of different generations. The longer they've been gone the bigger they get.

 

 

Yes you made that point previously when you said Varitek put in about 45 pounds...

[Bellhorn04]

I wonder if you were as excited as I was when the rocket came along. He looked as much like a sure thing as I could have imagined. he suffered thorough a couple of early injuries and just exploded. My excitement level came back in a hurry.

 

Yeah, the Rocket turned out to be kind of a tool, but there's no denying that he revived the franchise when he came along.

[Kimmi]

Yeah, the Rocket turned out to be kind of a tool, but there's no denying that he revived the franchise when he came along.

 

The Rocket was my first baseball idol in the late 80s and early 90s, and being a young, impressionable teenage girl, my first baseball crush. It's a shame that his career and reputation took the turn that it did.

[notin]

If not for a passed ball and a ground ball, Dave Henderson would be a bigger Sox legend than Dave Roberts...

[mvp 78]

Players that made a big impact that are less remembered:

 

Don Baylor (of all the impact guys on the 86 team, he's probably the one people don't think about)

Greenwell (people remember him, but don't remember how f***ing great he was)

Boddicker (key in the stretch run of 88 after coming over from O's)

Jody Reed (important member of the 88 and 90 teams)

John Valentin (perennially underappreciated leader)

Bret Saberhagen (really great in 99 when healthy)

Reggie Jefferson (peaked in non-playoff years and is forgotten)

Carl Everett (greatest hitter alive the first half of 2000)

Mueller (we all remember him, but he had so many clutch hits in 04 and the second highest oWAR on the team in 03 too)

Scott Williamson (dominant in 03 postseason, great in 04 before injury)

Okajima (dominant in 07 and 08, mostly forgotten due to the run of other notable Asian relievers afterwards)

Mike Carp (OPS+ of 139 in 2013)

Craig Breslow (remembered because he was an ivy league guy, not because he pitched a 229 ERA+ in 13)

RHB bench bat Rick Porcello (OPS+ 201 in 2018, slugged a redonkulous .714 when he wasn't striking out 43% of the time, that's Dalbec in single A numbers folks)

[tom-uk]

I’m gong with bob Stanley! Love sinker ballers.

First name that came to my mind, Stanley. John Valentin had a very high peak, compared to his fanfare.

[cp176]

Ken Harrelson - Jose Santiago - Jose Tartabull - Lee (the stinger) Stange - Joe Foy

[harmony]

I thought Red Sox fans might enjoy these video highlights of the 20-inning Red Sox win over the Seattle Pilots in 1969:

 

 

And another Red Sox/Pilot game from 1969:

 

 

Enjoy.

Edited December 12, 2018 by harmony