The future of baseball

[Bellhorn04]

It'll be very bad news if Harper and Machado do get around $400 million. What will that make Mookie worth - $500 million?

[Slasher9]

Is the great game of baseball in trouble?

 

Certainly the game is still extremely popular and the men who own major league franchises or otherwise have their fingers in the financial pie are still making tremendous piles of money, as are the players.

 

But there are some indicators that its popularity is on the decline-downturns in attendance and most recently the TV ratings for the game’s ultimate showcase, the World Series.

 

There have also been some rumblings and grumblings in various quarters, including right here on this forum, about the quality of the game itself as sporting competition and as entertainment.

 

Let’s enumerate what seem to be the most widespread and most recent complaints.

 

1) The games are too long, because of all the time between pitches, the mound visits, the pitching changes, and now the replay reviews.

 

2) The game has become dominated by stat geeks and computer analysts. They decide who the best players are, who the best players for the money are, and how to win more games.

 

3) All the fielding shifts are annoying and frustrating to watch.

 

4) Too much emphasis on the long ball. Too many hitters taking an all or nothing approach. Increase that launch angle so you can launch the ball over that damn shift and into the seats.

 

5) Thanks in large part to 4), there is not enough emphasis on the finer points of the game.

 

6) Bullpen games are now a thing, and the pitching ‘opener’ is a thing. The idea of a starter trying to throw a complete game now is a joke. You don’t really expect any of your pitchers to attempt to make it through the order three times, do you?

 

7) Two leagues with different rules, with opposing views on whether the pitcher trying to hit and run is a good idea. This creates a mess when the two leagues play against each other.

 

8) Umpires continue to call balls strikes and strikes balls at an unacceptable rate. Why not try robot umps?

 

So what should be done to improve the game? What CAN be done?

 

Will the game start to show the impact of declining popularity on the bottom line and will that motivate the powers to do something about it?

 

this is a great thread Bell.

here is the reply if Slasher9 is the commissioner:

 

1) game length/pace of play - this needs to be addressed.

- replay review: needs to be changed to 60 second review. clock starts when umpire puts on the headset. if NY cannot confirm a call in that time - call on field stands.

- pitching changes: 2 warmup tosses when brought into the game middle of an inning. must face 2 consecutive batters (unless new inning starts).

- mound visits: i like that they have limited these. no further updates.

- pitch clock - rule needs to be implemented/enforced. Once this is in place the batter will not be allowed to call timeout / step out of the box.

- robot umps for balls & strikes. this will speed up the game TREMENDOUSLY. no more arguing. no more stepping out of the box and shaking your head for 2 minutes on a call you didnt like. this will be the single most impactful thing to speed up game time.

- no more swapping out baseballs for a ball that is hit or a pitch in the dirt. throw the ball back into the pitcher and lets go.

 

2) stats rule the world now. i dont expect anything to change here. what is nice is that our latest parade was not based strictly on stats but a pretty healthy mix between stats and "gut feel".

 

3) infield shifts are banned. 2 infielders have to be on each side of second base.

 

4) if a batter strikes out the next hitter in the lineup only gets 2 strikes. if a player strikes out for the 3rd out of an inning it carries over to the next inning.

 

5) rule #4 just solved this.

 

6) I am OK with BP games. if that is how a team wants to do it...so be it.

 

7) DH is now the rule for all Major League teams. pitcher batting in NL is dead.

 

8) Robot umps for balls & strikes. game time just decreased by 40 minutes.

[Slasher9]

interesting article:

https://deadspin.com/mlb-expansion-is-probably-inevitable-but-where-and-whe-1830100867

[Kimmi]

It'll be very bad news if Harper and Machado do get around $400 million. What will that make Mookie worth - $500 million?

 

That is just absurd.

 

It has to stop somewhere.

[Northern Star]

Another change: no expanding the rosters in September.

[Northern Star]

That is just absurd.

 

It has to stop somewhere.

 

It's being reported that Harper turned down an "aggressive" longterm offer from the Nats. No idea how much except that it was south of the $400 million line.

 

Now, I have to be honest here. Usually, I side with owners when it comes to salary matters, and I hate Harper with every atom of my being, but I don't blame him for testing FA. If some team is idiotic enough to give him $400 million guaranteed, good for him.

[redsoxrules]

Harper turned down 10 years at 300 Million from Nationals.

Consider yourself lucky Rizzo, he ain't worth anywhere close to that.

 

And I cant believe any team would offer him 300M . Hes overrated

[notin]

Another change: no expanding the rosters in September.

 

 

Yes. This is stupid.

 

If you want to see your young players, make room for them on your roster like everyone else does in other sports. No more 17 man bullpens and 6 pitching chances in an inning...

[iortiz]

That is just absurd.

 

It has to stop somewhere.

 

I bet Harper and specially Machado don't even know what a 400 M figure is or mean LOL!

 

I understand that the market is what it is but this is getting ridiculous.

[Kimmi]

Yes. This is stupid.

 

If you want to see your young players, make room for them on your roster like everyone else does in other sports. No more 17 man bullpens and 6 pitching chances in an inning...

 

I really don't like teams having an unending supply of relievers on their expanded rosters and being able to change pitchers at will.

[Kimmi]

I bet Harper and specially Machado don't even know what a 400 M figure is or mean LOL!

 

I understand that the market is what it is but this is getting ridiculous.

 

I'd be happy with the MLB minimum salary. LOL

[notin]

Yes. This is stupid.

 

If you want to see your young players, make room for them on your roster like everyone else does in other sports. No more 17 man bullpens and 6 pitching chances in an inning...

 

Three steps MLB can take for better pace of play

 

1) Enforce existing rules for how long a pitcher can hold a ball in between pitches.

2) No more expanded rosters in September

3) Keep the shift!!

[moonslav59]

Three steps MLB can take for better pace of play

 

1) Enforce existing rules for how long a pitcher can hold a ball in between pitches.

YES!

 

2) No more expanded rosters in September.

OK, but expand the roster to 26.

 

3) Keep the shift!!

Yes, more outs!

 

Also,DH for all.

[iortiz]

I'd be happy with the MLB minimum salary. LOL

 

It’s plain crazy. An average top ten Ivy League graduate bearly make in his life 3-4 M.

 

That’s a season salary for a lot of bad mlb players.

[Bellhorn04]

It’s plain crazy. An average top ten Ivy League graduate bearly make in his life 3-4 M.

 

That’s a season salary for a lot of bad mlb players.

 

But 'bad' MLB players are still close to the top in the game.

 

And the game is entertainment that generates billions in revenue.

 

There's nothing wrong with the minimum salaries in MLB IMHO

 

Now the top salaries are a different story.

[notin]

It’s plain crazy. An average top ten Ivy League graduate bearly make in his life 3-4 M.

 

That’s a season salary for a lot of bad mlb players.

 

How many Ivy Keague graduates are among the best 750 people in the world in their field?

[notin]

Three steps MLB can take for better pace of play

 

1) Enforce existing rules for how long a pitcher can hold a ball in between pitches.

YES!

 

2) No more expanded rosters in September.

OK, but expand the roster to 26.

 

3) Keep the shift!!

Yes, more outs!

 

Also,DH for all.

 

25 players after September 1. If MLB adopts some sort of “only dress 25 players”, I’m ok with that.

 

But when Bruce Bochy, for example, adds 6 relievers to his bullpen and makes 3 to 4 pitching changes per inning for multiple innings, he does go a long way to making the game difficult to watch.

 

Also the shift speeds up games since it mitigates the need for a LOOGY. What takes less time?

 

1. Manager to walk out to mound and take ball from pitcher

2. Lefty reliever to come in from bullpen

3. Warm up pitches.

4. Full at bat from lefty hitter

5. Manager to remove LOOGY by repeating steps 1 through 3.

 

Or

 

1. 3 infielders to simultaneously walk about 40 feet each

2. And then after the at bat, walk back.

 

I’ll take the latter option...

Edited November 9, 2018 by notin

[moonslav59]

25 players after September 1. If MLB adopts some sort of “only dress 25 players”, I’m ok with that.

 

But when Bruce Bochy, for example, adds 6 relievers to his bullpen and makes 3 to 4 pitching changes per inning for multiple innings, he does go a long way to making the game difficult to watch.

 

Also the shift speeds up games since it mitigates the need for a LOOGY. What takes less time?

 

1. Manager to walk out to mound and take ball from pitcher

2. Lefty reliever to come in from bullpen

3. Warm up pitches.

4. Full at bat from lefty hitter

5. Manager to remove LOOGY by repeating steps 1 through 3.

 

Or

 

1. 3 infielders to simultaneously walk about 40 feet each

2. And then after the at bat, walk back.

 

I’ll take the latter option...

 

Agreed.

[Northern Star]

I must admit I'm coming round to my earlier thought of making the games 7 innings.

 

[/heresy]

[Kimmi]

We had that moment this year when Mookie Betts pulled out and flashed his 'cheat card' after making a catch. A lot of folks found this funny/entertaining.

 

Personally it made me a little queasy. No reflection on Mookie, of course. Just the fact that fielders now need these cards to know where to position themselves on every play.

 

In case you missed it, Bradford mentioned this moment in an article on WEEI today, titled How Analytics Helped the Red Sox Win Their World Series.

 

Of all the regular season moments that helped pave the way for the Red Sox' World Series title, what happened in the sixth inning back on June 21 in Minneapolis has to be pushed to the top of the list.

 

With the Sox holding a 2-0 lead over the Twins, Rick Porcello delivered his 0-2 offering to Joe Mauer. The lefty hitter jumped on the pitch, sending into the right-center field gap, almost exactly where Mookie Betts was standing. In fact, the right fielder had to take exactly three steps back before casually hauling in the liner. After throwing the ball back in and signaling the first out, Betts couldn't help himself.

 

The right fielder who had been adamant that he and his Red Sox' outfield-mates didn't need those cards and analytics being thrown the infielders way since spring training -- going so far as telling WEEI.com back in April, "It doesn't seem like baseball sometimes with all of the extreme shifts," -- couldn't help himself. He took the card out of his back pocket and waved it toward the Red Sox' dugout with a huge grin.

 

 

I am just glad that someone else enjoyed that moment as much as I did.

[Bellhorn04]

Rosenthal is issuing some rumbling sounds about the possibility of a work stoppage. Says the players have made a move toward creating a reserve fund.

[Northern Star]

Rosenthal is issuing some rumbling sounds about the possibility of a work stoppage. Says the players have made a move toward creating a reserve fund.

 

Too much to hope the owners wait them out and then smash the union into pieces. No more guaranteed contracts, no more DH. Draft signing bonuses in 5 figures max, not 7 or 8.

[Bellhorn04]

Too much to hope the owners wait them out and then smash the union into pieces. No more guaranteed contracts, no more DH. Draft signing bonuses in 5 figures max, not 7 or 8.

 

Thou art a tyrant!

[Bellhorn04]

Why would the owners want to kill such a golden goose?

[mvp 78]

Rosenthal is issuing some rumbling sounds about the possibility of a work stoppage. Says the players have made a move toward creating a reserve fund.

 

I hope the Union sits out as long as they need to.

[dgalehouse]

After signing with the Mets , Justin Wilson was lamenting that many owners were more interested in pocketing the money than in spending to put a winning team on the field. If that is the general feeling of the players , the labor negotiations could get rough.

[jacksonianmarch]

The players have already set aside a reserve fund. When an entire industry shifts their spending habits at the same time, they are either not making money or colluding. It isn't door #1...

[moonslav59]

The players have already set aside a reserve fund. When an entire industry shifts their spending habits at the same time, they are either not making money or colluding. It isn't door #1...

 

I agree, but then,,,,

 

There is still spending going on. The Sox will spend the same. The Yanks and Dodgers added salary.

 

Maybe the owners sense the economy is about to collapse. There is a lot of similarities to the late 1920's and many economists are forecasting a recession.

[jacksonianmarch]

I agree, but then,,,,

 

There is still spending going on. The Sox will spend the same. The Yanks and Dodgers added salary.

 

Maybe the owners sense the economy is about to collapse. There is a lot of similarities to the late 1920's and many economists are forecasting a recession.

 

This is not recession based spending. This is colluding with the stat geeks to devalue players. I am a stat geek to some degree, so I get it, but the players have a right to be upset, albeit they can cry in their $10 mil mansions

[moonslav59]

This is not recession based spending. This is colluding with the stat geeks to devalue players. I am a stat geek to some degree, so I get it, but the players have a right to be upset, albeit they can cry in their $10 mil mansions

 

Haven't we all been saying for years that GMs are dumb for paying big-named FAs basically for their past performance and not future projected output?

 

So, maybe stat geeks have shown them the truth and they finally realized the initial bump you get for these mega signings almost always sours over time, often over a short time.

 

I still think Machado and Harper will get mega deals- maybe not $300M and probably not 9-10 years, but they will do fine.

 

How are you so sure the strong possibility of a recession is not playing a part in teams tightening their budgets?