10/17 ALCS game 4

[Slasher9]

very tired at work this morning.

but happy.

[Slasher9]

The fan interference controversies in baseball could easily be prevented if they left a little space between the walls and the first row of seats. There's no interference in other sports. Of course no changes will be made because it would cost $$$

 

i think the fans would just stand up and still interfere tho?

[Fan_since_Boggs]

Some good slow motion replays:

 

I think the fans reached over. The key moment is when the ball makes contact with the glove. It is interesting to see just how far Betts' body is from the wall. His left arm extends beyond his body, but only so far beyond it.

[Maxbialystock]

It was a judgment call because of a stupid rule that gives fans first rights to a playable ball. Clearly the fan trying to catch it hit Betts glove, and just as clearly he was about to make a terrific catch but the fan contact closed his glove. I might understand the controversy if Betts ended up in the stands or almost in the stands, but he was so far out of the stands he was able to quickly grab the ball and throw it to the infield.

 

What really torques me is that it's now about the controversy with nary a mention of Betts making a great play.

[mvp 78]

You can see the fans hand closes Mookie's glove shut. Let's go back to the 70's astroturf stadiums where fans are 20 feet back.

[mvp 78]

It was a judgment call because of a stupid rule that gives fans first rights to a playable ball. Clearly the fan trying to catch it hit Betts glove, and just as clearly he was about to make a terrific catch but the fan contact closed his glove. I might understand the controversy if Betts ended up in the stands or almost in the stands, but he was so far out of the stands he was able to quickly grab the ball and throw it to the infield.

 

What really torques me is that it's now about the controversy with nary a mention of Betts making a great play.

 

I think it's overshadowed by Betts' other play in RF and Beni's catch. Stros fans seem to realize this.

[jung]

1) Houston cares about being down 3-1. Yes, they will come out to win tonight.

 

2) If Kimbrel walked Breg, Price comes in up 8-7, bases loaded, 2 outs.

 

To pitch to Springer????? I just think they burned up too much of Price to no real purpose. Would have made more sense to get him loose. He was throwing in earnest down there. I agree with the comments that ultimately, Cora decided he was going to live or die with Kimbrel.

 

That 3rd run we scored that eventually the Astros recovered may have actually put Cora in an odd spot. We gave that run back but Cora was left on the fence of "do we have enough of a lead that I can get the remaining outs before the Astros score enough to tie it or not". It was not obvious at that point that bringing Price in to pitch to what is an all RH top half of the order (Gonzalez is a SH) made any sense. Would Price have had any more luck pitching to Springer just coming into the game than Kimbrel had pitching to Bregman? Doubt it.

 

As the 9th slid closer and closer to ending, it became less and less likely that Price was coming into the game and more and more obvious that Cora was going to live or die with Kimbrel.

 

What i meant by the Astros "don't give a rats ass about being down 3-1" is don't expect them to be choking on a big apple in the throat because they are down 3-1. I don't see that happening.

[OH FOY]

Can you imagine if E-Rod come in there and Pitches a Gem. I expect him to go. Lot of pressure on Verlander. he had a mind melt inning in Fenway. I really feel the Sox finish it in Houston.

Road Warriors, nothing bothers them. That's the Mental Toughness I was looking for.

We Break Hearts tonight.

[OH FOY]

Don't matter if the Astros choke or Don't Choke, it only matters if we do. Haven't choked yet in Houston, in fact looks like they enjoy playing in Houston. Houston is on Pins and Needles now. Edited October 18, 2018 by OH FOY!

[Bellhorn04]

i think the fans would just stand up and still interfere tho?

 

Depends how much space they leave. If you're 6 feet back from the wall you just can't get there LOL

[S5Dewey]

IMO Cora put the ALCS on the line last night by putting Kimbrel in for a 6-out save. Kim had never gone that route in the past and had struggled with 4-out saves. Now it's 3-1 but if things had worked out differently this series would be tied 2-2 and we'd have burned all of our pitchers. As it is we've burned all of our pitchers for game 5 but we've got a commanding lead in the series.

 

Cora should have gone out last night and bought lottery tickets. He made a HUGE gamble...and won.

[BillyWilliams]

You can see the fans hand closes Mookie's glove shut. Let's go back to the 70's astroturf stadiums where fans are 20 feet back.

 

Nonsense, the fan certainly didn't "close mookie's glove". The astros got hosed on that play. This article makes a great point about the umps.

 

https://nypost.com/2018/10/18/debacle-shows-mlb-must-keep-older-umps-off-outfield-duty/

[OH FOY]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDCbrrkn7NA

Anybody see what I see, on Bregman's out to Benni? Looked like he swung at a Ball off the fists. Didn't look like a meatball to me. Interesting he swung at first pitch after Kimbrel just walked bases full. Thanks Alex wanting to be hero.

Edited October 18, 2018 by OH FOY!

[OH FOY]

Perfect Pitch to throw to Bregman, high and in with heat. Never got his bat extended.

[mvp 78]

Perfect Pitch to throw to Bregman, high and in with heat. Never got his bat extended.

 

Yeah, that's not a meatball unless Bregman has a heat zone there.

[mvp 78]

http://www.espn.com/mlb/player/hotzones/_/id/34886/alex-bregman

 

Ouch. Right where Bregman likes it.

[Station 13]

Kimbrel miss his location by two different area code. It was suppose to be LOW and AWAY, instead it was HIGH and IN.

[OH FOY]

See that, got away with that one, game of millimeters. Destiny brothers.

[jung]

http://www.espn.com/mlb/player/hotzones/_/id/34886/alex-bregman

 

Ouch. Right where Bregman likes it.

 

Beat me to it. The Sox pitchers have been trying to avoid Bregman's hot zones the whole series and the guy that has just missed entirely has been KIMBREL.

[jung]

Kimbrel miss his location by two different area code. It was suppose to be LOW and AWAY, instead it was HIGH and IN.

 

 

Kimbrel is an absolute mess. Fortunately, so is Osuna. I think its just hysterical that AJ tried Osuna for a 6 out close, an obvious mistake by AJ. What does Cora do? He does the same damn thing with Kimbrel. Both managers clearly left themselves 3 outs short of a full picnic in very similar circumstances. A great play by Beni in LF is the only thing that saved Cora's butt end for him.

[mvp 78]

I hope the fan with the Reagan/Bush hat that interfered went to bed sobbing last night.

[Emp9]

I hope the fan with the Reagan/Bush hat that interfered went to bed sobbing last night.

 

Yeah he undoubtedly interferred, no question. Betts, 2-time Gold Glove in his short career had that all the way and he robbed Betts of maybe one of the greatest catches in post season history. The rule book says it’s an out. I’m torn though, I could see that being called a ground rule double, but rules are rules. This isn’t veitnam. “Mark it Zero!!!”

[Emp9]

Let me reiterate:

[iortiz]

While Kimbrel is still arguably the best closer in baseball, a couple of months ago at other thread I said, let him walk after this season, not because the money he would ask but because he won’t be that pitcher he used to be moving forward (not even close), and some went to my throat —at time it felt like I was in medieval age when you commit heresy LOL

 

The signs of his decline are all over the place. If he gets a big contract, will be a steal.

[S5Dewey]

If Kimbrel needs more work to be effective he should be lights-out tonight. {sarcasm definitely ON}

[Maxbialystock]

Nonsense, the fan certainly didn't "close mookie's glove". The astros got hosed on that play. This article makes a great point about the umps.

 

https://nypost.com/2018/10/18/debacle-shows-mlb-must-keep-older-umps-off-outfield-duty/

 

You're citing the NY Post, the very outfit that reeks with hatred of the Sox? You also have a problem reading things carefully. Some examples--

 

1. The attack on Joe West which is based on his lack of agility. There can be times when the 2B umpire needs to be both agile and perspicacious, granted, but what you need for that RF ump is a good set of eyes, experience, and a willingness to make a call--all of which Joe has in abundance. The core of the argument about that call isn't about what Joe saw because he saw what actually happened--the Astros fan touched Betts glove and caused him to miss a grab. What remains in doubt, agreed, is where was the the glove, in the stands--more on that in a moment--or in the playing field. And I would argue no ump in the history of MLB would have sprinted all the way out there to eyeball that play definitively in terms of where Mookie's glove was. In other words, at least half of that stupid article is about a non-issue, the agility of Joe West.

 

2. Then there's this little gem: "Betts' glove closed a fraction too soon--perhaps because of contact from a fan." Perhaps????!!!!! Obviously the Post columnist did not watch the replay because that part of it was never in doubt--Betts timed his jump perfectly and his glove was in exactly the right place and open to receive the ball--until he was closed by the fan's hand as he tried to catch the ball.

 

3. Or consider this curious construction from Houston manager Hinch: “There’s no mechanism for me to change their mind, change their interpretation, change the fact that I thought the ball was a row or two into the stands,” I point especially to the phrase "the fact that I thought." Clearly, he badly wants to get the word fact in there even though what he has is a supposition. He only thinks--because he has no way of knowing--the ball was a row or two into the stands. Also, "a row or two into the stands is an obvious exaggeration. Were that the case, how in the world did Betts recover so quickly to retrieve the ball now on the field and throw it to the infield? Also, why didn't he crash into the wall is his glove was a row or two back in the seats?

[iortiz]

Nonsense, the fan certainly didn't "close mookie's glove". The astros got hosed on that play. This article makes a great point about the umps.

 

https://nypost.com/2018/10/18/debacle-shows-mlb-must-keep-older-umps-off-outfield-duty/

 

It’s a matter of perspective. The fan may not closed Mookie’s glove, but didn’t let open the glove to Mookie in order to catch the ball.

 

I’ve watched the play over and over, and Mookie would have gotten that ball easily with that jump.

 

In all cases, it was reviewed in NY anyways and the call was right IMO.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

because if the ball is in the stands, the fans can interfere. It is a jurisdiction thing. The stands belong to the fans, the field of play belongs to the players. If the fans reached over into the field of play, the umpire made the right call. If Betts reached over into the stands, the umpire made the wrong call.

 

 

I've got 4 things to say about that play:

1)Thank

2)You

3)Joe

4)West

Edited October 18, 2018 by SPLENDIDSPLINTER

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Btw, even though Betts was unable to catch that ball in RF because of obvious reasons, I still consider it a web gem. There were 3 other web gems in that game by Bregman, Reddick, and Beni.

[moonslav59]

To pitch to Springer????? I just think they burned up too much of Price to no real purpose. Would have made more sense to get him loose. He was throwing in earnest down there. I agree with the comments that ultimately, Cora decided he was going to live or die with Kimbrel.

 

That 3rd run we scored that eventually the Astros recovered may have actually put Cora in an odd spot. We gave that run back but Cora was left on the fence of "do we have enough of a lead that I can get the remaining outs before the Astros score enough to tie it or not". It was not obvious at that point that bringing Price in to pitch to what is an all RH top half of the order (Gonzalez is a SH) made any sense. Would Price have had any more luck pitching to Springer just coming into the game than Kimbrel had pitching to Bregman? Doubt it.

 

As the 9th slid closer and closer to ending, it became less and less likely that Price was coming into the game and more and more obvious that Cora was going to live or die with Kimbrel.

 

What i meant by the Astros "don't give a rats ass about being down 3-1" is don't expect them to be choking on a big apple in the throat because they are down 3-1. I don't see that happening.

 

I wasn't agreeing with the call, I was just trying to explain it.

 

I'd have brought Price in once the first guy got on in the 9th.