8/20 vs Tribe

[Maxbialystock]

What the heck was Porcello doing pitching the 7th? I only saw the bottom of the 9th, but the box says Porcello gave up 1 in the 5th and 2 in the 6th to tie the game.

[jung]

Kinda' surprised JD swung at that pitch in his eyes.

[Station 13]

Kinda' surprised JD swung at that pitch in his eyes.

 

He is frustraded with the ump.

[Station 13]

What the heck was Porcello doing pitching the 7th? I only saw the bottom of the 9th, but the box says Porcello gave up 1 in the 5th and 2 in the 6th to tie the game.

 

Cora always leaving Porcello in longer than other starters again.

[TylerD]

Cora always leaving Porcello in longer than other starters again.

 

It’s unfortunate. He had a really nice game to that point.

[jung]

Unless the batter is sure it will be a fastball. Sometimes it works in those cases.

 

But that is the problem with leaving a Change in the middle of the plate. You can leave it up...these days....OK, miss your location off the middle of the plate OK....middle of the plate, all the hitter has to do is wait half a tick and often even on a half swing from a decent hitter and its by-by.

[moonslav59]

What the heck was Porcello doing pitching the 7th? I only saw the bottom of the 9th, but the box says Porcello gave up 1 in the 5th and 2 in the 6th to tie the game.

 

He did end up with less pitches thrown than Kluber, but I was wondering the same thing at the start of the 7th.

[Station 13]

Kluber nibbling around the strikezne:

http://www.brooksbaseball.net/pfxVB/location.php?pitchSel=446372&game=gid_2018_08_20_clemlb_bosmlb_1/&batterX=0&innings=yyyyyyyyy&sp_type=1&s_type=3&league=mlb&pnf=&zlpo=

 

Porcello in the zone

http://www.brooksbaseball.net/pfxVB/location.php?pitchSel=519144&game=gid_2018_08_20_clemlb_bosmlb_1/&batterX=0&innings=yyyyyyyyy&sp_type=1&s_type=3&league=mlb&pnf=&zlpo=

[Youk Of The Nation]

Everyone needs to stop analyzing Porcello's performance and focus the blame on where we all know it truly belongs: Slasher.

[Station 13]

Moreland OB 3 for 5.

 

JD on base 2 for 5.

 

JD has more power.

 

Moreland is hitting .188 in the 2nd half, so he needs to hit somewhere else. His OB is .214

[Fan_since_Boggs]

I'd try Bogey 3rd and Moreland 5th.

 

Agreed. I like this better than moving J.D. to the third spot.

 

The Red Sox's top 4 offensive players are Mookie, Benintendi, Bogaerts, and Martinez, and so they should occupy the 1-4 spots in the order.

[Maxbialystock]

The game was won and lost by the two managers in the 7th inning. Going into the 7th the game was tied at 3 all. Cora left Porcello in to pitch the entire 7th, including the game-winning 2 run dinger. Francona, who stayed with Kluber after he gave up the three early runs, let him get Mookie out to start the 7th, then immediately pulled him. He then used 4 relievers to get the next 8 outs. Clearly, Francona trust his bullpen more than Cora trusts his.

[Bellhorn04]

The game was won and lost by the two managers in the 7th inning. Going into the 7th the game was tied at 3 all. Cora left Porcello in to pitch the entire 7th, including the game-winning 2 run dinger. Francona, who stayed with Kluber after he gave up the three early runs, let him get Mookie out to start the 7th, then immediately pulled him. He then used 4 relievers to get the next 8 outs. Clearly, Francona trust his bullpen more than Cora trusts his.

 

You also manage differently with a lead than you do in a tie. The Red Sox had a win probability of 50% going into the top of the 7th. Cleveland had a 78% win probability going into the bottom of the 7th.

[Bellhorn04]

Agreed. I like this better than moving J.D. to the third spot.

 

The Red Sox's top 4 offensive players are Mookie, Benintendi, Bogaerts, and Martinez, and so they should occupy the 1-4 spots in the order.

 

Nope, research shows the optimal lineup has the 4 best hitters in spots 1,2,4 and 5.

[Bellhorn04]

I'd try Bogey 3rd and Moreland 5th.

 

Nope, Bogey has a .929 OPS in the 5 spot and a .504 OPS in the 3 spot (SSS with only 31 PA's).

 

He's killing it in the 5 spot and I assume it's a very comfortable spot for him, so leave him there.

[S5Dewey]

Nope, research shows the optimal lineup has the 4 best hitters in spots 1,2,4 and 5.

 

These are the qualities (as I see it) for 4 of the top 5 in the order,

 

#1 - Good OB %-age, ideally good speed too.

#2 - LH hitter who makes good contact and can hit behind runners

#3 -

#4 - LH with Power

#5 - RH, also power, lower OPS than the #4 guy

 

So what are the desired qualities of a #3 hitter other than be a RHH?

?

[Bellhorn04]

These are the qualities (as I see it) for 4 of the top 5 in the order,

 

#1 - Good OB %-age, ideally good speed too.

#2 - LH hitter who makes good contact and can hit behind runners

#3 -

#4 - LH with Power

#5 - RH, also power, lower OPS than the #4 guy

 

So what are the desired qualities of a #3 hitter other than be a RHH?

?

 

First of all, I don't get the L-R thing you have there. JD Martinez is a pretty good #4 hitter, no?

 

From what I have gathered, you basically put your 5th best hitter in the 3 spot. It looks like Cora is doing that with Moreland/Pearce in the 3 spot.

[Bellhorn04]

It's kind of funny to see so much talk about getting Moreland out of the 3 spot in a game in which had a hit and 2 walks. It was his 2-out, nobody on, single in the first that led to our 2 runs in that inning.

[moonslav59]

Moreland is hitting .188 in the 2nd half, so he needs to hit somewhere else. His OB is .214

 

I know, but you chose the game where he got on base more than JD to complain.

[moonslav59]

Agreed. I like this better than moving J.D. to the third spot.

 

The Red Sox's top 4 offensive players are Mookie, Benintendi, Bogaerts, and Martinez, and so they should occupy the 1-4 spots in the order.

 

I always thought Bogey was the perfect #2 hitter, but with Beni's sudden loss of power, and Bogey showing more power this year, I like Betts-Beni-Bogey-JD... (Moreland/Pearce).

[moonslav59]

These are the qualities (as I see it) for 4 of the top 5 in the order,

 

#1 - Good OB %-age, ideally good speed too.

#2 - LH hitter who makes good contact and can hit behind runners

#3 -

#4 - LH with Power

#5 - RH, also power, lower OPS than the #4 guy

 

So what are the desired qualities of a #3 hitter other than be a RHH?

?

 

High OB% and some power.

[Slasher9]

Everyone needs to stop analyzing Porcello's performance and focus the blame on where we all know it truly belongs: Slasher.

 

dammit. truth.

 

thankfully my bad juju now rather then in October.

#banned

[Slasher9]

These are the qualities (as I see it) for 4 of the top 5 in the order,

 

#1 - Good OB %-age, ideally good speed too.

#2 - LH hitter who makes good contact and can hit behind runners

#3 -

#4 - LH with Power

#5 - RH, also power, lower OPS than the #4 guy

 

So what are the desired qualities of a #3 hitter other than be a RHH?

?

 

it wasnt long ago the 3 hitter was supposed to be the best hitter in the lineup.

now apparently the "stats" say:

3 hitter is supposed to be the 5th best hitter.

the 5 hitter should be your 4th best hitter.

the 2 hitter should be your best hitter

 

Cora seems to be only following the 3 hitter rule by keeping moreland there.

[Bellhorn04]

it wasnt long ago the 3 hitter was supposed to be the best hitter in the lineup.

now apparently the "stats" say:

3 hitter is supposed to be the 5th best hitter.

the 5 hitter should be your 4th best hitter.

the 2 hitter should be your best hitter

 

Cora seems to be only following the 3 hitter rule by keeping moreland there.

 

As Kimmi has said many times, it's also important to know which guys are most comfortable hitting in which spots, and Cora should know that better than any of us.

[oldtimer]

Betts has a very good n base % but has recently struggled with sliders down and away. Any FB over the plate is his meat and potatoes. Perhaps he will adjust to the way he is being pitched soon.

Beni has not hit for power in a long while and seldom pulls the ball but he is also has a solid on base % with singles and walks. Good in the 1 or the 2 hole.

Moreland and Pearce are both professional hitters with some pop and fit well into the 3 slot. Arguments could be made for Bogey there, but that is Cora's call.

JDM is our main power hitter. He has chased some pitches of late but he is very likely to know all about that and make adjustments quickly.

Bogey has been as constant a plate presence as we have with a new found slashing stroke this year, Great to have him in the 5 hole

 

Our top 5 hitters are tough to face and will continue to give us a lot of runs. Our problem last night reminds me of the saying "for want of a nail, the shoe was lost and for want of a shoe the horse went lame, and so on". Last night it was for want of a momentary focus by Porcello Cleveland had a base runner who bothered Porcello and perhaps took his focus away from pitching. Home run, tie game and we were in a different place for an eventual loss. Small things matter.

[S5Dewey]

As Kimmi has said many times, it's also important to know which guys are most comfortable hitting in which spots, and Cora should know that better than any of us.

 

So it's NOT all about the statistics! Sometimes its also about the intangibles.

 

Some of us think there's such a thing as "protection" but since there are no statistics to back it up we're told it doesn't exist.

Some of us think there's such a thing as "clutch" but since there are no statistics...... ^^

I think most of us now agree that there's such a thing as "choke" in spite of the fact that there are no stats to back it up due to SSS's.

 

Sometimes we throw in the intangibles, but only when it suits our purposes.

 

All I'm asking is that people be consistent. Either you think Stats are the be-all, end-all or you don't. The (IMO) more reasonable of us believe that both stats and intangibles play into a player's performance but when we have the audacity to say it we're hit with a barrage of statistics saying we're wrong. Especially from those who give lip service to "intangibles" but then use statistics to quash any differing viewpoints.

 

I'm sorry. I know I've been disagreeable lately, but can you at least see why I'm going nutso here?

[jung]

Pitchers have to stay off the barrel of the bat and the only way to do that is to stay out of the middle of the plate. The barrel of the bat is what allows hitters to literally hit HR's one handed especially with the rocket ship baseball they use in the ML's now.

 

The launch angle swing does make it possible to turn what used to be considered mistake pitches into pitches you can get away with, like a Change up but not in the middle of the plate. You can get away with that pitch more often now than before everybody was trying to launch. That is why LH pitchers now believe they can throw Change ups to LH hitters and get away with it, something you would have never seen in decades past. By the same token, pitches in the middle of the plate are more likely to get tagged and are more likely going to be extra base hits or HR's than ever before.

 

The Curve has clearly returned to the ML's in a big way and for all the noise about pitchers throwing 98, they are maybe throwing more breaking pitches than I can remember, maybe ever, all in an effort to stay off the barrel of the bat and keep the hitter from timing his pitch. The Cutter, much maligned as a junk pitch through the years is big exactly because it fools the hitter just enough to keep the ball off the barrel of the hitter's bat. What we are not seeing as much off from what I can tell is pitchers rearing back and simply throwing the ball past hitters. Kimbrel take notice.

[dannycater]

And yet there is a MLB record for Ks and more Ks than Hits, which never has happened in MLB history for one season. So yes, many are blowing people away as well as using changeups and cutters/curves.

[OH FOY]

Sox should have no problem scoring runs tonight against Bieber. Opponents hitting .295 against him this year.

[Bellhorn04]

So it's NOT all about the statistics! Sometimes its also about the intangibles.

 

Some of us think there's such a thing as "protection" but since there are no statistics to back it up we're told it doesn't exist.

Some of us think there's such a thing as "clutch" but since there are no statistics...... ^^

I think most of us now agree that there's such a thing as "choke" in spite of the fact that there are no stats to back it up due to SSS's.

 

Sometimes we throw in the intangibles, but only when it suits our purposes.

 

All I'm asking is that people be consistent. Either you think Stats are the be-all, end-all or you don't. The (IMO) more reasonable of us believe that both stats and intangibles play into a player's performance but when we have the audacity to say it we're hit with a barrage of statistics saying we're wrong. Especially from those who give lip service to "intangibles" but then use statistics to quash any differing viewpoints.

 

I'm sorry. I know I've been disagreeable lately, but can you at least see why I'm going nutso here?

 

Personally I like talking about this kind of stuff.

 

My feeling is that the man who has the most info at his fingertips, both the numbers and the intangibles, is the manager. I put a lot of faith in Cora to be able to balance all that stuff out. My feeling is that he's pretty good at it.