6/17 @ Seattle

[Bellhorn04]

You just made my point for me. Cora is boxed. There is really nothing he can do about the circumstance he has been handed. You are correct. Cora can't just move players around willynilly during the course of a game. However I see no rational for taking your point as a positive factor for us. The performance of our LH hitting corp vs LH pitchers including that of Beni and Rafi is piss poor and the hitting performance of our switch hitters against LH pitchers is piss poor and there is literally nothing we can do about it. Holt is the only exception and he is never going to get enough playing time to make that mean anything. I happen to think that none of this is either Beni's or Rafi's fault because they are just young. It won't prevent people from throwing them under the bus. Apparently we think Mookies and Harpers and Trouts just grow on trees and they don't.

 

It is a very very small percentage of players of which neither Beni nor Rafi are members that can just come up, play significant roles in 162 game seasons and then not be held accountable by the real baseball teams with real scouting abilities that they will face every day in the post season. There is simply not enough team here. My point is that we will not at the end of the day hold the Morelands or the Nunez's or the Swiharts or Leon's accountable at the end of the season. We will hold guys like Rafi and Beni accountable because they have been given these significant roles, batting high in the order for long stretches of the season while Sox PR heralds them as the second coming. We will not realize that it is just those significant roles and the data set produced by it that the real baseball teams we will face at the end of the season will feast upon.

 

The only hope we really have to legitimize an actual post season run would be for DD to pull a rabbit out of a hat and I don't see that one happening either. This team just dumped Hanley for the most part because they don't want to vest him for next year. Fine as far as it goes as long as we realize that Sox brass is making a judgement very similar to the one I am making. I don't think anybody wants to make the case that Pedey should he return at all changes to any great degree the outlook for this team. A third of a season of a Machado might be the only thing we can do and that would seem more a hail mary pass hope more than something at all likely. But I wll take it or anything like it because there is just not enough team here.

 

God help us if JD goes down because then nothing will help us which is why I do not want to see JD in a Fenway OF under any circumstances. His bat goes out of this lineup and this team is done as any sort of post season contender.

 

You seem awfully down on the postseason chances of a team with such good pitching.

[Kimmi]

Yup. For all those that say the Sox have not played many good teams .500 against the "Iron" of the league is okay with me.

 

I don't see a single team being significantly better than the Sox at the moment.

 

As you like to say, Boom.

[Maxbialystock]

You seem awfully down on the postseason chances of a team with such good pitching.

 

The 2004 and 2007 teams did indeed have great hitting in the postseason--and needed it. The 2013 team had good hitting in the regular season which dropped off in the postseason, where great pitching--ERA of 2.59--carried the day. Plus some great clutch hits by Ortiz mostly, but others too.

 

It's entirely possible Devers won't be "ready" for the postseason this year, but he is still I think our best option at 3b.

 

But I just don't understand the attack on Benintendi, who played a ton last year and contributed a lot--and this year is even better. His OPS of .925 is 14th best in MLB and he got off to a slow start this year. He's also tied for 9th in MLB in rbi's and in runs scored. And he's not ready???????

[Slasher9]

If we had a DH (hanram) then I would consider platooning beni vs LH with JD playing the field those days. It would have limited Hanley’s AB’s to LHP starters only keeping him from vesting.

Rookie manager talking veteran GM into that DFA may hurt us...

[Bellhorn04]

If we had a DH (hanram) then I would consider platooning beni vs LH with JD playing the field those days. It would have limited Hanley’s AB’s to LHP starters only keeping him from vesting.

Rookie manager talking veteran GM into that DFA may hurt us...

 

I'm pretty sure Cora didn't talk DD into it any more than the vesting option had nothing to do with it.

 

I think the Sox had a Plan A and a Plan B for Hanley. Plan A was to give him a full shot to contribute this year. Plan B was to bail hard if he went in the tank. He went in the tank hard after a promising start. That shoulder is probably still not right.

[cp176]

I'm pretty sure Cora didn't talk DD into it any more than the vesting option had nothing to do with it.

 

I think the Sox had a Plan A and a Plan B for Hanley. Plan A was to give him a full shot to contribute this year. Plan B was to bail hard if he went in the tank. He went in the tank hard after a promising start. That shoulder is probably still not right.

 

I think that you are right. I believe that there were a combination of reasons for Hanley being dropped. I also really don't think that Hanley was anything but positive this year. Fun loving kind of guy. I also believe that the Sox are moving away from players like Hanley. That is my opinion. Note - 0 implication of what type of person Hanley might have been or might be! I'm not even trying to imply anything other than to say that there very well may have been just a few other reasons not being said for good reason why Hanley is no longer with us. If Hanley had been hitting, I still say that he would be in a Boston uniform.

[Kimmi]

I'm pretty sure Cora didn't talk DD into it any more than the vesting option had nothing to do with it.

 

I think the Sox had a Plan A and a Plan B for Hanley. Plan A was to give him a full shot to contribute this year. Plan B was to bail hard if he went in the tank. He went in the tank hard after a promising start. That shoulder is probably still not right.

 

How often do GMs DFA a player after one bad month, especially after a good month?

[jacksonianmarch]

How often do GMs DFA a player after one bad month, especially after a good month?

 

when that player has an option for stupid money that doesnt meet market expectations?

[moonslav59]

when that player has an option for stupid money that doesnt meet market expectations?

 

...like $18M short of market value for 2019 alone.

[moonslav59]

2019:

 

Kimbrel or HRam?

[Kimmi]

when that player has an option for stupid money that doesnt meet market expectations?

 

Well, that's my point. This was a financial decision to benefit next season, not a baseball move to benefit this season.

[Kimmi]

2019:

 

Kimbrel or HRam?

 

A team in contention this year should not be weakening the team, however slight, to benefit next year.

 

Not when Hanley could have been DFA'd later in the season, if needed.

 

And to answer your question, I'm not signing Kimbrel to a big contract.

[jacksonianmarch]

Well, that's my point. This was a financial decision to benefit next season, not a baseball move to benefit this season.

 

It was both, kinda. The offensive production wont be missed. If Hanley had no option for next year, then he hangs on as a guy who mashes lefties and plays in 30% of the games. With the concern that the option would cause him to be a malcontent and the fact that he wasn't producing enough to justify his place on the club, it was an easy call.

[moonslav59]

A team in contention this year should not be weakening the team, however slight, to benefit next year.

 

Not when Hanley could have been DFA'd later in the season, if needed.

 

And to answer your question, I'm not signing Kimbrel to a big contract.

 

I'm not either, but I'd take Kimbrel over HRam in a heartbeat.

[Kimmi]

I'm not either, but I'd take Kimbrel over HRam in a heartbeat.

 

It depends on what Hanley we're talking about. I would take the April Hanley over Kimbrel.

[moonslav59]

It depends on what Hanley we're talking about. I would take the April Hanley over Kimbrel.

 

We know "what" Kimbrel we have every month.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

I've noticed other teams have made a big rush to sign Hanley, even though he's almost free.

[Maxbialystock]

Well, that's my point. This was a financial decision to benefit next season, not a baseball move to benefit this season.

 

We all agree on next season. But I honestly think there is an upside this year too. Our best DH by far is JDM, and our best 1B is Moreland. That's why I think this move--DFA early--was inevitable. I do think they were willing to give HanRam a little more rope just in case they were wrong and could still use him, but the feeling was it was time for him to go.

 

About finances. Let's not forget that a big chunk of what they save in 2019 they have to pay out in 2018. That is, the Sox will pay Hanley this year wherever he goes, just like Pablo who is currently playing for the San Francisco. In Hanley's case, he is own his own next year, but right now he is a dead loss. This is no doubt why you and others are unhappy wit this move. Why give up a paid-for bat that can maybe help?

 

Just maybe, however, the injured shoulder theory is true. If so, it's smart to let him go and equally smart by others not to scoop him up.

Edited June 19, 2018 by Maxbialystock

[moonslav59]

It's kind of funny to me that only 2 or 3 posters have an issue with us DFA'ing HRam, when the numbers show that letting Pablo go might have been a bigger mistake.

 

2018:

 

OPS

.882 Moreland

.798 Pablo

.708 HRam

.705 Devers

 

2018 vs LHPs

.854 HRam

.728 Moreland

.585 Pablo

.559 Devers

 

[Bellhorn04]

It's kind of funny to me that only 2 or 3 posters have an issue with us DFA'ing HRam, when the numbers show that letting Pablo go might have been a bigger mistake.

 

2018:

 

OPS

.882 Moreland

.798 Pablo

.708 HRam

.705 Devers

 

2018 vs LHPs

.854 HRam

.728 Moreland

.585 Pablo

.559 Devers

 

 

How about 2017 from the time we cut Pablo?

[Maxbialystock]

Ahem. time for the next game thread to start.

[moonslav59]

How about 2017 from the time we cut Pablo?

 

How about it?

 

He was .638 with SF last year. He's got 11 HRs and 45 RBI in his 315 PAs in his second stint with the Giants.

 

.710 OPS.

 

(Pablo is .757 in his last 365 days.)

[Kimmi]

We all agree on next season. But I honestly think there is an upside this year too. Our best DH by far is JDM, and our best 1B is Moreland. That's why I think this move--DFA early--was inevitable. I do think they were willing to give HanRam a little more rope just in case they were wrong and could still use him, but the feeling was it was time for him to go.

 

About finances. Let's not forget that a big chunk of what they save in 2019 they have to pay out in 2018. That is, the Sox will pay Hanley this year wherever he goes, just like Pablo who is currently playing for the San Francisco. In Hanley's case, he is own his own next year, but right now he is a dead loss. This is no doubt why you and others are unhappy wit this move. Why give up a paid-for bat that can maybe help?

 

Just maybe, however, the injured shoulder theory is true. If so, it's smart to let him go and equally smart by others not to scoop him up.

 

JD's best position is at DH, but he wants to play the field and Cora has been playing him in the field often enough. Moreland is best used as a platoon player. There were plenty of at bats to go around and keep everyone happy (except for Swihart, apparently). At any rate, I get all of the logic behind the DFA. I just don't agree with it, in particular, so soon in the season.

[Bellhorn04]

How about it?

 

He was .638 with SF last year. He's got 11 HRs and 45 RBI in his 315 PAs in his second stint with the Giants.

 

.710 OPS.

 

(Pablo is .757 in his last 365 days.)

 

I don't think there's any reason to look back.

 

We'll never know what he would have done had he stayed with us but I'm skeptical it would have been good.

 

I suspect he's quite a bit more relaxed where he is now. There's not the same kind of pressure because he's a virtual freebie for the Giants and whatever he gives them is like a bonus. We're paying the bill.

[moonslav59]

I don't think there's any reason to look back.

 

We'll never know what he would have done had he stayed with us but I'm skeptical it would have been good.

 

I suspect he's quite a bit more relaxed where he is now. There's not the same kind of pressure because he's a virtual freebie for the Giants and whatever he gives them is like a bonus. We're paying the bill.

 

Of course, there isn't.

 

I was mocking the folly of missing HRam.

[Bellhorn04]

Of course, there isn't.

 

I was mocking the folly of missing HRam.

 

Oh.

[Kimmi]

Of course, there isn't.

 

I was mocking the folly of missing HRam.

 

There is no folly in disagreeing with the move of DFAing Hanley in May.

[moonslav59]

There is no folly in disagreeing with the move of DFAing Hanley in May.

 

Folly is in the eye of the beholder.

[TylerD]

Where’s the new game day thread?

[jung]

Great opportunity for a road sweep coming up in Minnesota. Our rotation set up to succeed in the three games in Minnesota. We face three straight ho-hum RH pitchers which gives our hitters the best chance to succeed.

 

Gibson might be the toughest of the three if his sinker is working. Even with that....we have a real shot at winning three straight in Minnesota.