The Alex Cora Managerial Decision Thread

[Bellhorn04]

How’s this. I saw the forest. The forest was don’t burn your 2 best relievers with big leads vs hapless offense. The forest is we need to make sure those 2 have bullets ready when we need them vs a top flight team.

Tell me more about me only seeing a tree or two....

 

You could question the Kimbrel use in Game 2 vs. the Birds, but Kelly was only used in tight situations in that series. One was with a 4 run lead, but the bases were loaded when he came in.

[Yaz Fan Since 67]

You could question the Kimbrel use in Game 2 vs. the Birds, but Kelly was only used in tight situations in that series. One was with a 4 run lead, but the bases were loaded when he came in.

 

Not only did I question Kimbrel in Game 2 I almost lost my schitt when I saw him getting up in the bullpen the next game, after throwing 53 pitches the previous 2 nights. Cora was going to him again. Against the Baltimore Orioles. In June. That's just crazy.

[Kimmi]

If Cora listens to moonslav and drops Moreland to 5th, we got four good ones in Betts, Beni, JDM, and Bogie. Sooner or later Devers will see the light or at least the dadgum ball.

 

Right now Mookie, Beni, and Bogie have to be the best young threesome on one team in MLB right now. DD's job is to figure out how to keep them. And Devers. And a rotation.

 

We have a very good young core. Dombrowski has a tough task ahead of him in figuring out who and how to keep longer term.

[Kimmi]

Not only did I question Kimbrel in Game 2 I almost lost my schitt when I saw him getting up in the bullpen the next game' date=' after throwing 53 pitches the previous 2 nights. Cora was going to him again. Against the Baltimore Orioles. In June. That's just crazy.[/quote']

 

OTOH, if Cora had not brought in his best relievers, and we had managed to blow any of those games, there would be a lot of criticism towards Cora for costing us those games. I'm not saying you personally, but in general. Winning those games was just as important as winning against the Mariners.

 

I was surprised to see Kimbrel come into Game 2 as well. I question some Cora's moves, but on the whole, I think he's done an awesome job. At the very least, he deserves the benefit of the doubt.

[a700hitter]

OTOH, if Cora had not brought in his best relievers, and we had managed to blow any of those games, there would be a lot of criticism towards Cora for costing us those games. I'm not saying you personally, but in general. Winning those games was just as important as winning against the Mariners.

 

I was surprised to see Kimbrel come into Game 2 as well. I question some Cora's moves, but on the whole, I think he's done an awesome job. At the very least, he deserves the benefit of the doubt.

You are dealing in a hypothetical. We can hypothesize anything. Unless he was just giving them work to keep them fresh that would not affect their future availability in close games, then it was a mistake to have used them in those games. They weren’t available. It was a mistake. Managers make them.

[SoxHop]

Not only did I question Kimbrel in Game 2 I almost lost my schitt when I saw him getting up in the bullpen the next game' date=' after throwing 53 pitches the previous 2 nights. Cora was going to him again. Against the Baltimore Orioles. In June. That's just crazy.[/quote']

 

Me too Yaz.......

[Bellhorn04]

You are dealing in a hypothetical. We can hypothesize anything. Unless he was just giving them work to keep them fresh that would not affect their future availability in close games, then it was a mistake to have used them in those games. They weren’t available. It was a mistake. Managers make them.

 

Kelly was not used in any one-sided situations.

 

The only one-sided situation that can be argued was Kimbrel with a 4-run lead and a clean inning. And as I have said and as can be easily proven, managers frequently use their closers with a 4-run lead.

[SoxHop]

Kelly was not used in any one-sided situations.

 

The only one-sided situation that can be argued was Kimbrel with a 4-run lead and a clean inning. And as I have said and as can be easily proven, managers frequently use their closers with a 4-run lead.

 

I have no beef with how Kelly was used. In fact I think his placement was well done by Cora.

 

I'm hoping we get good things from Workman.

[Kimmi]

You are dealing in a hypothetical. We can hypothesize anything. Unless he was just giving them work to keep them fresh that would not affect their future availability in close games, then it was a mistake to have used them in those games. They weren’t available. It was a mistake. Managers make them.

 

Of course managers make mistakes. However, I feel the majority of what we deem to be mistakes are not mistakes.

 

I wouldn't call using Kimbrel with that 4 run lead a mistake. I was surprised to see him in the game, meaning that if I were the manager, I don't think I'd have used him, but that doesn't mean it was a mistake. The decision to use him is certainly defensible.

[Maxbialystock]

You are dealing in a hypothetical. We can hypothesize anything. Unless he was just giving them work to keep them fresh that would not affect their future availability in close games, then it was a mistake to have used them in those games. They weren’t available. It was a mistake. Managers make them.

 

I don’t see it. You’re the one hypothesizing because the Sox swept Baltimore, kimbrel rested Wed, closed Thursday and didn’t pitch Friday because the Seattle didn’t need to bat in the 9th.

 

Exactly when did Kimbrel not pitch when he was needed but was tired?

[Maxbialystock]

I don’t see it. You’re the one hypothesizing because the Sox swept Baltimore, kimbrel rested Wed, closed Thursday and didn’t pitch Friday because the Seattle didn’t need to bat in the 9th.

 

Exactly when did Kimbrel not pitch when he was needed but was tired?

 

Kimbrel has now not pitched in two straight games, Fri and Sat, and he didn't pitch Wed. So the burden is on the naysayers to demonstrate just how using Kimbrel on Mon and Tues--both games the Sox won as well as the next two games--hurt the bullpen or prevented Kimbrel pitching when a save was available.

[a700hitter]

Kimbrel has now not pitched in two straight games, Fri and Sat, and he didn't pitch Wed. So the burden is on the naysayers to demonstrate just how using Kimbrel on Mon and Tues--both games the Sox won as well as the next two games--hurt the bullpen or prevented Kimbrel pitching when a save was available.

The Kimbrel thing is really a non-issue. Porcello, Hembree and barnes couldn't keep the lead through 8, so Cora's misuse of Kimbrel wasn't an issue.

[Maxbialystock]

The Kimbrel thing is really a non-issue. Porcello, Hembree and barnes couldn't keep the lead through 8, so Cora's misuse of Kimbrel wasn't an issue.

 

Clearly we disagree on what constitutes misuse. I'm honest when I say I generally support every move Cora makes, but in this case I also think Kimbrel gets paid an awful lot of money to do less and less. I also think the Cora is experimenting a little, trying to see what each of his guys are capable of--and not.

[a700hitter]

Clearly we disagree on what constitutes misuse. I'm honest when I say I generally support every move Cora makes, but in this case I also think Kimbrel gets paid an awful lot of money to do less and less. I also think the Cora is experimenting a little, trying to see what each of his guys are capable of--and not.

I wouldn't have used him in that instance unless he desperately needed the work. I am sure that cora didn't want it to turn into a 30+ pitch outing. When a guy like Kimbrel needs work in 4+ run differential game, because rust is setting in, I would let the leave the previous pitcher in the game until he gets 1 out and bring in Kimbrel to get the final 2 outs. They should limit the possibility of running up 30+ pitches in a low leverage situation. Edited June 18, 2018 by a700hitter

[sk7326]

Clearly we disagree on what constitutes misuse. I'm honest when I say I generally support every move Cora makes, but in this case I also think Kimbrel gets paid an awful lot of money to do less and less. I also think the Cora is experimenting a little, trying to see what each of his guys are capable of--and not.

 

It's the latter. I think they have no problem giving Kimbrel more 8th inning work - but definitely are ramping him up there. I would be surprised if they did not take the training wheels off more in July and August.

[StephenCurry30]

alex cora decided the day after an off day, he should bring in ROBBY SCOTT to pitch the 8th inning of a tied game. genius, just genius.

[StephenCurry30]

even remy questioning why the hell scott was in the game?

[DontCallMeUncleRico]

I liked the Cora hiring but now i'm starting to sour. All these stupid days of rests. stupid decision to bring in scott. Trotting out JBJ when he should be a fourth outfielder. He's frustrating me.

[Slasher9]

alex cora decided the day after an off day, he should bring in ROBBY SCOTT to pitch the 8th inning of a tied game. genius, just genius.

 

Cora basically just told Chris Sale “f*** you”

[Bellhorn04]

Cora basically just told Chris Sale “f*** you”

 

This post makes no sense. Sale had a no-decision whoever Cora brought in.

[S5Dewey]

I'm usually not one to question what Cora (or Farrell, for that matter) does but why the f*** would he bring Scott - in an extremely high leverage situation - in his first game back from Pawtucket?!?! Wouldn't a more rational approach be to bring Scott into a game that's already either won (or lost) to see what he's got? And wasn't the rest of the pen rested after having the previous day off? Or didn't Cora notice that? This was stupidity in action.

[Bellhorn04]

I'm usually not one to question what Cora (or Farrell, for that matter) does but why the f*** would he bring Scott - in an extremely high leverage situation - in his first game back from Pawtucket?!?! Wouldn't a more rational approach be to bring Scott into a game that's already either won (or lost) to see what he's got? And wasn't the rest of the pen rested after having the previous day off? Or didn't Cora notice that? This was stupidity in action.

 

Scott was brought in to face the #9 hitter and then 2 lefty hitters. Cora said 'these are the situations he's here for' or similar words. Scott did a lousy job, obviously. Maybe you could chalk it up as a managerial mistake, but there was some reasoning behind it.

[Yaz Fan Since 67]

Scott was brought in to face the #9 hitter and then 2 lefty hitters. Cora said 'these are the situations he's here for' or similar words. Scott did a lousy job, obviously. Maybe you could chalk it up as a managerial mistake, but there was some reasoning behind it.

 

While I can see the reasoning I too was asking at the time WTF was Scott doing in the game at that particular situation. First game since being called up? That's crazy. Managers are still sticking with the lefty vs lefty strategy but don't the advanced stats say go with the best picture regardless of which arm he uses?

[Bellhorn04]

It was Scott's first MLB game this year, but he has MLB experience and excellent numbers against lefties (.522 OPS). And he was pitching very well at Pawtucket.

[SoxnCycles]

After seeing the box score this morning, I'm just glad I missed the eight inning.

[Slasher9]

This post makes no sense. Sale had a no-decision whoever Cora brought in.

 

Fair point. Maybe more like “screw you Sale”. Trust me when I say sale hates seeing what the team record is in his starts.

[Slasher9]

Wouldn't a more rational approach be to bring Scott into a game that's already either won (or lost) to see what he's got? And wasn't the rest of the pen rested after having the previous day off? .

 

100%. There is zero rationale for bringing Scott into last nights game when Cora did (2-2/8th inning)

[jacksonianmarch]

When you bring a kid up from the minors, usually you want to ease him into things. Blowout or lower leverage situation earlier in a game. You don't bring in a promoted reliever in a 2-2 game on the road in the 8th inning, especially when the team you're chasing has already won

[Maxbialystock]

Fascinating discussion about Scott and Cora. My take on the game was that the hitting stunk, pure and simple, so I wasn't so sure we were going to score any more runs.

 

And about the infamous 8th. Scott left the game with the score tied, 1 man out, runners on 1st and 2d, and Kelly coming to the mound, where he has been very good this year when the game is on the line and he inherits baserunners.

 

Does anyone besides me remember the 6th inning when the first two batters got on against Christ Sale, after which he got a ground out and then gave up a 2 run double? Scott and Kelly--at least for those first two runs scored by the Twins in the 8th--did no worse than the great, indomitable Chris Sale did in the 6th inning.

 

I'm sorry, but in my view last night is entirely on the players and not Alex Cora. Chris Sale gave up a 1 run lead in the 6th in a moment of weakness. The lineup stunk all night long. And not one but two relievers--one of whom, Kelly, has closed a few times and has been great coming in with runners on base--gave up 2 runs which were all the Twins needed.

Edited June 20, 2018 by Maxbialystock

[jacksonianmarch]

max, I disagree. If Cora was willing to go to his setup man in the 8th, doing so at the beginning of the inning is prudent. He tried to sneak the lefty in to lengthen his pen in case they went to extras and he got burned