Sox re-sign Mitch Moreland

[mvp 78]

I agree that finding one who does both is the secret. However, as I said before, I'll give up some offense in an up the middle position to gain a big defensive advantage. IMHO one of the biggest shortcomings of this team is in our SS. This guy was supposed to be the be-all, end-all of shortstops. One who'd play stellar defense and also make big offensive contributions. So far he's done neither. If he were hitting as expected we wouldn't be worrying about trading an all-star caliber CF because what that CF lacks in offense would be made up by the SS.

 

I don't remember ANY scouting reports saying he'd provide stellar defense. Most said he'd be moved off the position for being too big.

[mvp 78]

And to expand on my "YES" comment, I still fail to see the harm in going with Moon's idea.

 

Either Hanley will produce @ 1B or he won't. If he does and he vests, so much the better. We've got a producing 1Bman. OTOH, if he doesn't produce we sign someone else (this someone else who's cheaper and can't be much worse than Hanley- remember Hanley wasn't producing) and give Hanley so few PA's that he doesn't vest.

 

Is there a downside to this???

 

Yeah, who are you "going to sign" if Hanley stinks? You believe there will still be 1b's sitting at home during the season that will be worth a paycheck? Of course not! You'd have to trade more prospects (which moon doesn't want to do) in order to find a replacement 1b.

[S5Dewey]

I don't remember ANY scouting reports saying he'd provide stellar defense. Most said he'd be moved off the position for being too big.

 

I think we have a difference in memory here. IIRC he wasn't supposed to be as good as Iggy but was supposed to be one heck of a lot better than he is now. But that's just his defense. I'd be relatively happy with it if he were producing offensively as he was supposed to.

[S5Dewey]

Yeah, who are you "going to sign" if Hanley stinks? You believe there will still be 1b's sitting at home during the season that will be worth a paycheck? Of course not! You'd have to trade more prospects (which moon doesn't want to do) in order to find a replacement 1b.

 

Meh. Sam Travis is as good as a non-producing Hanley. Probably better, depending on how badly Hanley isn't producing. And Travis is cheaper.

Edited December 20, 2017 by S5Dewey

[S5Dewey]

double post. Sorry

[mvp 78]

I think we have a difference in memory here. IIRC he wasn't supposed to be as good as Iggy but was supposed to be one heck of a lot better than he is now. But that's just his defense. I'd be relatively happy with it if he were producing offensively as he was supposed to.

 

Field: Potential average defensive profile. Solid-average range, but may lose foot speed as he gets bigger. Needs to slow the game down defensively and resist the feeling to rush plays. Inconsistent with footwork and staying down on the ball. Choppy at times with his movements and reactions.

 

Your memory is toast! http://soxprospects.com/players/bogaerts-xander.htm

 

He is a perfectly average defensive SS.

[mvp 78]

Meh. Sam Travis is as good as a non-producing Hanley. Probably better, depending on how badly Hanley isn't producing. And Travis is cheaper.

 

I like Travis' upside more than Hanley's so I'd rather him be with the big club day in and day out. Maybe even get reps in LF.

[OH FOY]

I agree that finding one who does both is the secret. However, as I said before, I'll give up some offense in an up the middle position to gain a big defensive advantage. IMHO one of the biggest shortcomings of this team is in our SS. This guy was supposed to be the be-all, end-all of shortstops. One who'd play stellar defense and also make big offensive contributions. So far he's done neither. If he were hitting as expected we wouldn't be worrying about trading an all-star caliber CF because what that CF lacks in offense would be made up by the SS.

 

Agree. Orioles had Belanger, who was unreal Defensively at SS. So they really had 2 weak bats in that Line-up, but their Defense up the middle was unreal. Had to, because of Pitching, sacrifice the O, for the D, to help Pitching. I can think of 3 Outstanding Fielders on that team, Robinson, Belanger, and Blair.

Edited December 20, 2017 by OH FOY!

[Kingface]

It's easy to say "HanRam should be 1B, JD should be DH and JBJ at center. For the record.....I prefer that route as well. The problem is......do the players (Other than JBJ want that?). It's already on record that JD wants to play the field (probably because he'll get more money). HanRam played OK at 1B 2 years ago but considering he's made of glass he really is more suited at DH most of the time. That would leave us JD at 1B who doesn't play the position.

 

I think DD saw this and knew this and saw no choice but to sign Moreland (who plays an excellent 1B when healthy....which he is now), put HanRam at DH, and possibly sign JD and trade JBJ. I'll be upset to see this happen as I love JBJ's defense but we NEED better offense and we also need better pitching. JD playing the OF, HanRam at DH and Moreland at 1B gives of more offense and trading JBJ could net us some much needed starting pitching. Again, I'd prefer JD at DH and HanRam at DH and JBJ in the field but I really think there is A LOT more to this than we know.

 

On a side note........I'd bet my savings that DD and Cora do WHATEVER they can to make sure HanRam does not vest for the following season. They want all the money they can to sign our young core to contracts and to dip into a FAR better FA market.

[mvp 78]

Agree. Orioles had Belanger, who was unreal Defensively at SS. So they really had 2 weak bats in that Line-up, but their Defense up the middle was unreal. Had to, because of Pitching, sacrifice the O, for the D, to help Pitching. I can think of 3 Outstanding Fielders on that team, Robinson, Belanger, and Blair.

 

Pick up Jay Jaffe's new HOF book. In one chapter, he lays out a case where it would have been better for the O's to keep Bobby Grich around.

[mvp 78]

On a side note........I'd bet my savings that DD and Cora do WHATEVER they can to make sure HanRam does not vest for the following season. They want all the money they can to sign our young core to contracts and to dip into a FAR better FA market.

 

Wooooah... Settle down with these hot takes.

 

Easiest way to not let him vest is to just release him immediately.

[notin]

I do think this is the year Bogaerts breaks out and tears up MLB pitching. He will, however, very likely continue lackluster defensive play at shortstop. ..

[notin]

Wooooah... Settle down with these hot takes.

 

Easiest way to not let him vest is to just release him immediately.

 

I wonder if Dombrowski and Cora are as concerned with Hanley's option as people on this board. Especially if Hanley can return to being even a fraction of the hitter he was that first month in Boston before injuring his shoulder.

 

If he doesn't hit and that option still vests, there are a few actions they can take. ..

[mvp 78]

I wonder if Dombrowski and Cora are as concerned with Hanley's option as people on this board. Especially if Hanley can return to being even a fraction of the hitter he was that first month in Boston before injuring his shoulder.

 

If he doesn't hit and that option still vests, there are a few actions they can take. ..

 

If he's not hitting and on the roster, why would they let the option vest?!?

[moonslav59]

I'd rather:

 

Moreland - 1b

 

JD - DH

 

HRam unconditionally released

 

Subtract a $6.5M RP'er or SP'er we could have signed, instead of Moreland.

[moonslav59]

And to expand on my "YES" comment, I still fail to see the harm in going with Moon's idea.

 

Either Hanley will produce @ 1B or he won't. If he does and he vests, so much the better. We've got a producing 1Bman. OTOH, if he doesn't produce we sign someone else (this someone else who's cheaper and can't be much worse than Hanley- remember Hanley wasn't producing) and give Hanley so few PA's that he doesn't vest.

 

Is there a downside to this???

 

No, because we can easily trade scraps for someone like Moreland, if HRam fails or gets hurt.

[moonslav59]

Meh. Sam Travis is as good as a non-producing Hanley. Probably better, depending on how badly Hanley isn't producing. And Travis is cheaper.

 

It matters not. We pay HRam anyways, so who cares if Travis ends up better.

[mvp 78]

Subtract a $6.5M RP'er or SP'er we could have signed, instead of Moreland.

 

The starters that matter this year cost far more than $6.5.

 

Dombrowski said he's only looking at bringing a LHP for the pen in.

[mvp 78]

It matters not. We pay HRam anyways, so who cares if Travis ends up better.

 

Uhhhhhhhh????

[Slasher9]

You have to think about his bat. CFer isn't SS. It is a position that you need some offense from

 

when it comes to JBj i disagree with this 100%. i couldn't care less if he ever gets another hit as long as he is playing CF....

[Slasher9]

I'd much prefer this:

 

1B- HRam (If he gets hurt, we save the vest and signa 1Bman mid season.

 

DH- JD (saving $13M by not signing Moreland)

 

OF- as is

 

IN.

[Jack Flap]

With regard to Hanley's option: it's an issue because 2 of his 3 seasons in Boston have been sub-replacement level (granted, injuries and the disastrous 2015 move to LF have played a part in that) and there's a good chance you'll want to use that $22 million and lineup spot on a better player in 2019. I'm not for releasing him outright, and if he produces, he should play (the return of July-September 2016 Hanley would be a game-changer) - but I just hope there are plans in place in case he doesn't. I just don't want to let the option vest by default while he coasts through another just-healthy-enough but mediocre season like 2017.

[mvp 78]

when it comes to JBj i disagree with this 100%. i couldn't care less if he ever gets another hit as long as he is playing CF....

 

10th ranked defensive CF. If Zimmer played more games, JBJ would fall to 11th.

[mvp 78]

With regard to Hanley's option: it's an issue because 2 of his 3 seasons in Boston have been sub-replacement level (granted, injuries and the disastrous 2015 move to LF have played a part in that) and there's a good chance you'll want to use that $22 million and lineup spot on a better player in 2019. I'm not for releasing him outright, and if he produces, he should play (the return of July-September 2016 Hanley would be a game-changer) - but I just hope there are plans in place in case he doesn't. I just don't want to let the option vest by default while he coasts through another just-healthy-enough but mediocre season like 2017.

 

That's why you just dump him. Don't give the union a reason to fight about it.

[Jack Flap]

That's why you just dump him. Don't give the union a reason to fight about it.

 

Are you talking about releasing him? I'd be shocked if that happened, but who knows. I think there's enough upside left there to give him a chance, but he needs to earn it...if he can't outproduce Moreland and/or whatever other DH candidates we have around (Brentz/Swihart/Travis/etc), then he should see his playing time cut back accordingly. Not saying it wouldn't be a difficult and uncomfortable situation for Cora to navigate, but I think it can be done.

[dgalehouse]

To some fans , WAR and UZR are valuable tools , except when they disagree with one's personal opinion and/or eye test. Also , it is obvious that objectivity is a lost art. Many of us , for one reason or another , have our particular favorites and our particular whipping boys. Our favorites can do no wrong , and the whipping boys can do no right , no matter what the stats may show. Let's hope Dombrowski , and all Sox management , stay objective and results oriented. That is key to success.

[moonslav59]

While I firmly believe JBJ has been the best defensive CF'er since I started watching the Sox in the early 70's. I have to say, I have no way of knowing where he should rank in MLB.

 

30 CF'ers with 1500+ innings from 2015-2017:

According to DRS, JBJ ranks 8th at +24.

According to UZR/150 ranks 11th at +4.9, which is a good number but not great.

 

Can anybody who has seen any of the below players for more than 200 games tell be JBJ is definitively better than any one of the 10 guys with a better UZR/150 since 2015?

 

25.1 Kiermaier

16.9 K Pillar

15.2 Hamilton

13.5 J Lagares

10.5 M Taylor

9.5 L Cain

8.1 L Martin

7.8 E Inciarte

7.1 O Herrera

6.9 B Buxton

5.0 AJ Pollock

4.9 JBJ

 

I know I can't.

 

[cp176]

While I firmly believe JBJ has been the best defensive CF'er since I started watching the Sox in the early 70's. I have to say, I have no way of knowing where he should rank in MLB.

 

30 CF'ers with 1500+ innings from 2015-2017:

According to DRS, JBJ ranks 8th at +24.

According to UZR/150 ranks 11th at +4.9, which is a good number but not great.

 

Can anybody who has seen any of the below players for more than 200 games tell be JBJ is definitively better than any one of the 10 guys with a better UZR/150 since 2015?

 

25.1 Kiermaier

16.9 K Pillar

15.2 Hamilton

13.5 J Lagares

10.5 M Taylor

9.5 L Cain

8.1 L Martin

7.8 E Inciarte

7.1 O Herrera

6.9 B Buxton

5.0 AJ Pollock

4.9 JBJ

 

I know I can't.

 

 

Obviously you never saw Gary Gieger picking them for us out there in center during the early 60's.

[jacksonianmarch]

Kiermaier is better than JBJ as is Buxton. I don’t think it’s due to aptitude, just ability. Kiermaier has more speed and Buxton is a freak. The other guys I haven’t seen enough to determine

[Spudboy]

It matters not. We pay HRam anyways, so who cares if Travis ends up better.

 

Moon I don't see how this makes much sense. Are you saying play the big money player even when the lesser money player is more productive?

Edited December 20, 2017 by Spudboy