2017/18 Hot Stove Thread

[jacksonianmarch]

He’s not the same level prospect. He had a serious injury and came back noticeably diminished. He was a bad defensive catcher to begin with and now he’s coming off a major injury and significant lost development time both due to injury and due to ridiculous attempts to find a place for him elsewhere on the field. He doesn’t have a special bat. His upside might be a guy with mild pop and some hit and walk ability. That works at catcher. That doesn’t work as a 1b or LF

[Bellhorn04]

He’s not the same level prospect. He had a serious injury and came back noticeably diminished. He was a bad defensive catcher to begin with and now he’s coming off a major injury and significant lost development time both due to injury and due to ridiculous attempts to find a place for him elsewhere on the field. He doesn’t have a special bat. His upside might be a guy with mild pop and some hit and walk ability. That works at catcher. That doesn’t work as a 1b or LF

 

It may work quite well at low paid Swiss Army Knife.

[Natick to NC]

He’s not the same level prospect. He had a serious injury and came back noticeably diminished. He was a bad defensive catcher to begin with and now he’s coming off a major injury and significant lost development time both due to injury and due to ridiculous attempts to find a place for him elsewhere on the field. He doesn’t have a special bat. His upside might be a guy with mild pop and some hit and walk ability. That works at catcher. That doesn’t work as a 1b or LF

 

He was injured ....he's a high Average Doubles hitter ....he can catch he can play every position on the diamond except CF ....yes he can throw 99 mph ....the guy is a freak Athelete you can bloviate like all of us but I'm not in you're camp that he's not a catcher ....and a good one maybe if given opportunity.I believe he's better than anyone cares to notice but it's on him .Is he Gary Sanchez ??? I can definitely say no ....but really who is ?

Edited March 14, 2018 by Natick to NC

[cp176]

Anyone who can suggest that they have any clue about what Swihart is capable of as a hitter moving forward, surely doesn't have a Red Sox perspective. He is clearly an above average athlete. I'm thinking that it is more likely that he is an outstanding hitter as opposed to a below average or average hitter. If someone was to tell me that that he was going to be our starting 2nd baseman or 3rd baseman to begin the season, I could live with it from a defensive perspective. I'm not sure that that would be much of a downgrade. Before anyone comes unglued or feels the urge to wordsmith, that is not what I am suggesting. I am suggesting that he will be a far better than average hitter.

[Carpin]

He was injured ....he's a high Average Doubles hitter ....he can catch he can play every position on the diamond except CF ....yes he can throw 99 mph ....the guy is a freak Athelete you can bloviate like all of us but I'm not in you're camp that he's not a catcher ....and a good one maybe if given opportunity.I believe he's better than anyone cares to notice but it's on him .Is he Gary Sanchez ??? I can definitely say no ....but really who is ?

 

Good points, bottom line you have to play him, but you need to find him a position first, if he's somehow average or a little bellow average with the bat he must be an above average defender, if not he's just a journeyman like many in the ML. If he can play an adequate catcher, then he's worth a lot.

[cp176]

Good points, bottom line you have to play him, but you need to find him a position first, if he's somehow average or a little bellow average with the bat he must be an above average defender, if not he's just a journeyman like many in the ML. If he can play an adequate catcher, then he's worth a lot.

 

I think that it is more likely that he is an above average hitter and quite possibly a below average fielder for a while at least. Since we already have a few of those guys, I see him fitting in quite well. Not sure he ever develops into the catcher that people at one time thought he could but he is certainly athlete enough to field the huge hole (lol) left by Brock Holt if someone thinks that it is time to change. I'm not sure that I ever saw him catch a game that I said after what a good catcher he was. Never saw it. Just constantly heard potential potential. The but is that he is one helluva an athlete who I think makes this roster in a make it or break it year for him.

[moonslav59]

He’s not the same level prospect. He had a serious injury and came back noticeably diminished. He was a bad defensive catcher to begin with and now he’s coming off a major injury and significant lost development time both due to injury and due to ridiculous attempts to find a place for him elsewhere on the field. He doesn’t have a special bat. His upside might be a guy with mild pop and some hit and walk ability. That works at catcher. That doesn’t work as a 1b or LF

 

He missed almost all of 2016, and you claim he came back "noticably diminished". You're basing a lot on about 250 PAs from 2017, not counting his .997 OPS in 33 PAs this past winter and a torrid ST'ing this year.

 

The guy was recovering from a serious injury and at the same time, was being asked to learn multiple positions.

 

Look, I get how people caan view Swi as a long shot or worse, but there is certainly reason enough to see a chance at him becomming a meaningful MLB player.

 

Nobody is projecting Swihart to be a starting 1Bman or LF'er, but as a sub, a .330 OBP brings something useful to the table. Having a 3rd catcher gives us much more late inning catcher options with PH'ing. That alone has value.

[Kimmi]

Maybe, but the fact that Sox management has all but given up on Swihart as a catcher speaks volumes.

 

I'm not so sure that they've given up on him at catcher. I think they are having him play other positions so they can find a way to keep him on the 25 man roster. He would not be worthy of a spot if he could only be the 3rd catcher.

[Kimmi]

Had we not signed following

Hanley $22M

Sandoval $18M

Price $31M

Kimbrel $13M

Porcello $20

That's $104M that we could have used to sign every FA in the market.

 

Better yet, I propose we trade following players

 

Price, Porcello, Sale, Kimbrel, Hanley, Dustin, Betts, JBJ, Xander.....pretty much start over with Beni and Devers.

 

Lets' suffer through 120 game losing seasons, stock up on high draft picks and some AA talent from all the trades.

 

Lets make 2022 not as a 'cliff' year, but the 'summit' year. Hell we'll have around $150M to spend on top free agents.

 

Good grief.

 

It's time to move on.

 

MY f***ING TEAM IS ON THE FIELD AND READY TO KICK SOME f***ING ASS.

 

What are you even talking about?

[Kimmi]

That would’ve been great. I found the Moreland signing a bit of a head scratcher anyway and Holt... well, we have the same opinion on Holt. Should’ve traded him to an NL team while his value was at it’s highest back when he was named an All Star.

 

I still don't understand all of the dislike or the questioning of the Moreland signing. IMO, it was a solid move.

 

Also, I don't share everyone's opinion of Holt. I am in no hurry to get rid of him and am hopeful that he can bounce back this year if he can stay healthy.

[moonslav59]

I'm not so sure that they've given up on him at catcher. I think they are having him play other positions so they can find a way to keep him on the 25 man roster. He would not be worthy of a spot if he could only be the 3rd catcher.

 

I meant as a 1 or 2 catcher.

 

I've been lobbying for Swihart making the 25 based on the value he adds as a 3rd catcher, which allows us to PH for Vaz or Leon more easily.

[moonslav59]

I still don't understand all of the dislike or the questioning of the Moreland signing. IMO, it was a solid move.

 

Also, I don't share everyone's opinion of Holt. I am in no hurry to get rid of him and am hopeful that he can bounce back this year if he can stay healthy.

 

I'm for starting Holt in AAA. I'm only for "dumping him," if weneed the $2M to acquire someone and stay under the $40M limit.

 

"Bounce back" to what? With Nunez on board and Swihart looking for PAs at 1B and LF, where will Holt be the best back-up on the club?

 

2B? Nope (Nunez, Hernandez, Marrer/Lin)

SS? Nope (Lin, Marrero, Nunez, Hernandez)

3B? Nope (Nunez, Lin, Marrero, Hernandez)

LF? Nope (Nunez, Swihart, JDM)

1B? Nope (Moreland, Swihart, Travis)

 

Nope, nope, nope!

 

The Moreland signing was horrible.

 

We needed power, and 1B is THE POSITION to add power. Morrison would have been better, but Moustakas and Duda were steals.

 

(Note: this is not hindsight, as I called for signing them over Hosmer or Moreland all winter long.)

Edited March 14, 2018 by moonslav59

[Kimmi]

Interesting article on the mlb rumors website this morning. Seems that the Sox have been trying to sign some veteran arms to stash down in Pawtucket. This doesn't surprise me at all. It just is not that easy. Many of these tired old potential has beens do not want to pitch at the AAA level if they can absolutely help it. Points out the fact that DD isn't just sitting around doing nothing. Maybe something will break and maybe it won't as we get closer to the end of sp. Makes me really appreciate the signing of Tommy Layne even more. He knows where he is going and can live with it to continue the dream.

 

The article brought up the same point that was brought up last year, which I had forgotten about. Because the Sox have a stronger rotation than most other teams, there is a lesser likelihood that those dumpster dives will be able to earn a regular starting pitching job with the Sox than with other teams. They are signing minor league deals, but they are choosing to sign elsewhere, where they have a better chance of making the big league club.

 

I will have to give Dombrowski a pass on not signing more minor league pitching depth.

[harmony]

Anyone who can suggest that they have any clue about what Swihart is capable of as a hitter moving forward, surely doesn't have a Red Sox perspective. He is clearly an above average athlete. I'm thinking that it is more likely that he is an outstanding hitter as opposed to a below average or average hitter. If someone was to tell me that that he was going to be our starting 2nd baseman or 3rd baseman to begin the season, I could live with it from a defensive perspective. I'm not sure that that would be much of a downgrade. Before anyone comes unglued or feels the urge to wordsmith, that is not what I am suggesting. I am suggesting that he will be a far better than average hitter.

FanGraphs Depth Charts, Steamer, ZiPS and Marcel project the following 2018 batting averages, on-base percentages and OPS for Blake Swihart:

 

FG: .235/.296/.649

S: .242/.304/.672

Z: .228/.288/.726

M: .265/.333/.743

2017 AL average: .256/.324/.753

Edited March 14, 2018 by harmony

[moonslav59]

FanGraphs Depth Charts, Steamer, ZiPS and Marcel project the following 2018 batting averages and on-base percentages for Blake Swihart:

 

FG: .235/.296

S: .242/.304

Z: .228/.288

M: .265/.333

2017 AL average: .256/.324

 

He's been at about .330 at every level.

[Kimmi]

Not all of us were overly concerned that we needed to add more power.

 

Moreland and Hanley at first base can be a pretty doggone good platoon.

[harmony]

He's been at about .330 at every level.

Just as I had hoped Blake Swihart's age 25 season last year would approach catcher Mike Zunino's age 25 season in 2016, I hope Swihart's age 26 season this year approaches Zunino's age 26 season in 2017.

[Bellhorn04]

Not all of us were overly concerned that we needed to add more power.

 

Moreland and Hanley at first base can be a pretty doggone good platoon.

 

Doggone good, I like the sound of that.

[cp176]

FanGraphs Depth Charts, Steamer, ZiPS and Marcel project the following 2018 batting averages, on-base percentages and OPS for Blake Swihart:

 

FG: .235/.296/.649

S: .242/.304/.672

Z: .228/.288/.726

M: .265/.333/.743

2017 AL average: .256/.324/.753

 

oh Harmony come on - don't talk dirty to me with all that sexy talk - steamer (a fine clam) - zips (what our opponents get a lot of when Sale is on the hill) - Marcel (not sure about this one - some Frenchman trying to sell me a bottle of cheap wine?)

Got to remember who you are talking to. lol

[Jack Flap]

I still don't understand all of the dislike or the questioning of the Moreland signing. IMO, it was a solid move.

 

Also, I don't share everyone's opinion of Holt. I am in no hurry to get rid of him and am hopeful that he can bounce back this year if he can stay healthy.

 

The way I see it, we overpaid for Moreland in order to 1) avoid getting into a position of desperation in the JDM negotiations (with the option of playing Moreland at first and Hanley at DH, we were able to wait him out as long as we needed to), and 2) in the event JDM was signed, insure ourselves against Hanley being bad again. It was indeed an overpay when you look at what guys like Moustakas ended up getting in this market, and if Hanley can hit and play 1B the way he did in 2016, Moreland becomes pretty superfluous, but the deal still made sense at the time, IMO, and I have no problem with it.

[Jack Flap]

oh Harmony come on - don't talk dirty to me with all that sexy talk - steamer (a fine clam) - zips (what our opponents get a lot of when Sale is on the hill) - Marcel (not sure about this one - some Frenchman trying to sell me a bottle of cheap wine?)

Got to remember who you are talking to. lol

 

LOL!...now that was funny.

[cp176]

LOL!...now that was funny.

 

thanks Jack - sadly for me it points out that I don't know what I'm talking about roughly 3/4 of the time. I don't take myself very seriously! lol

[Natick to NC]

thanks Jack - sadly for me it points out that I don't know what I'm talking about roughly 3/4 of the time. I don't take myself very seriously! lol

Alex Cobb ....Lynn was 1 at 12 ....Alex two for 13 ? Is he worth it for stability ? Some out there think that he may be .I must admit I've rarely seen him pitch ...Where would an Alex Cobb slot in ? What is a legit offer for Alex Cobb? Is this a player we need ?

Edited March 15, 2018 by Natick to NC

[moonslav59]

The way I see it, we overpaid for Moreland in order to 1) avoid getting into a position of desperation in the JDM negotiations (with the option of playing Moreland at first and Hanley at DH, we were able to wait him out as long as we needed to), and 2) in the event JDM was signed, insure ourselves against Hanley being bad again. It was indeed an overpay when you look at what guys like Moustakas ended up getting in this market, and if Hanley can hit and play 1B the way he did in 2016, Moreland becomes pretty superfluous, but the deal still made sense at the time, IMO, and I have no problem with it.

 

There was no rush to sign a 1B man. There about 5 still on the market. All 5 were better choices.

 

It was a horrible signing day one: it's worse after watching prices bottom out on the better choices.

[moonslav59]

Alex Cobb ....Lynn was 1 at 12 ....Alex two for 13 ? Is he worth it for stability ? Some heat out there that he may be .

 

I'd take Lynn or Cobb over Moreland and Holt to stay just under the major penalty line.

[cp176]

There was no rush to sign a 1B man. There about 5 still on the market. All 5 were better choices.

 

It was a horrible signing day one: it's worse after watching prices bottom out on the better choices.

 

I'm not sure that it was a good signing Moon but I'm just not sure that I'd call it horrible. He has a great glove, some pop, and more importantly he looks to be a team player. He is not just some stiff plucked out of the barnyard. There others more talented but he is the kind of player that it is really hard to go wrong with.

[Natick to NC]

I'd take Lynn or Cobb over Moreland and Holt to stay just under the major penalty line.

 

Highlights are misleading but hooooooly crap Cobb may have the greatest move to 1b I've seen .. Seems to have 92 heater little life there at the end ...change looks really solid when he's dealing ...curve eats up the inside plate nice movement .He seems like a talented pitcher at a glance ..I hope we look hard at Alex .

[cp176]

Alex Cobb ....Lynn was 1 at 12 ....Alex two for 13 ? Is he worth it for stability ? Some out there think that he may be .I must admit I've rarely seen him pitch ...Where would an Alex Cobb slot in ? What is a legit offer for Alex Cobb? Is this a player we need ?

 

I got to tell you I've always liked Cobb but I sure don't know what it would take to get him. If he is healthy, why wouldn't he be potentially a mid rotation kind of guy? Not cheap and I still think that we are ok for the time being. I am also fairly confident that DD is looking into everything that he can to get more pitching. He is likely not to get screwed by anybody though.

[Natick to NC]

I got to tell you I've always liked Cobb but I sure don't know what it would take to get him. If he is healthy, why wouldn't he be potentially a mid rotation kind of guy? Not cheap and I still think that we are ok for the time being. I am also fairly confident that DD is looking into everything that he can to get more pitching. He is likely not to get screwed by anybody though.

 

Yes I agree with all of this ..I looked at an article tonight and it was convincing...the jist was Alex Cobb would be the Glue that would solidify a gimpy rotation ...having looked at his stuff ...The little I saw ? He seems like a great get if DD can pull it out .

[jacksonianmarch]

Cobb would be an absolutely awful fit in Fenway. Cobb came back from TJS with terrible strikeout numbers and a career high HR rate. His ERA was all smoke and mirrors as his BABIP was down to .282. Most measures saw him as a low 4's ERA guy. If he went to Fenway, he would be a big time HR liability