2017/18 Hot Stove Thread

[Larry Cook]

Heyman posturing for Boras so that the Sox increase their offer. Sad!

 

I think you called it. Boras getting desperate?

[moonslav59]

Why does Bryce have to fit in a bubble ? Why can't he succeed given his hit tool? I'm sorry I've watched this kid turn around damn good pitching.I believe he has 5 years atleast in him and wouldn't be shocked if he rakes in Oakland or somewhere else .I wouldn't just DFA this player I would package him to the As or elsewhere ....Bryce Brentz has figured somethings out late but he did it and to not even acknowledge that is sad .The truth is Holt should be DFA already .Holt looks like Matt Damon ,for that alone he should be shipped out for a bucket of slim jims I'm kidding about Holt ...great guy but time to go .

 

There are some extenuating circumstances with Brentz's years in the minors, such as shooting himself and not being able to see very well until 2 years ago.

 

He may be the player that breaks the mold. I definitely think he deserves a chance to make the 25 man roster, even if he struggles in ST'ing, but if we sign JD, there's just no reason to keep him on the roster, unless on the DL- phantom or otherwise. If he does very well in ST'ing, he might be traded. If we trade JBJ, he stays. If we trade HRam, we could keep him around.

 

 

[moonslav59]

Tony Watson agrees to multiyear deal with SF.

 

Dollar amount unknown at this time.

[notin]

Tony Watson agrees to multiyear deal with SF.

 

Dollar amount unknown at this time.

 

He wasn't on the Sox last year. Dombrowski is only re - signing players ay this time.

 

I bet he is calling Fernando Abad's agent right now..

[Kimmi]

I think you called it. Boras getting desperate?

 

Boras isn't getting desperate, but his clients have to be feeling a sense of panic. And I imagine that Boras is having a harder and harder time convincing his clients to remain patient. The players can continue with the "I'm willing to sit out through spring training" crap all they want, but you know it's killing them. Pressure is a better word. Boras is feeling pressure.

[notin]

He wasn't on the Sox last year. Dombrowski is only re - signing players ay this time.

 

I bet he is calling Fernando Abad's agent right now..

 

Apparently Abad signed a minor league deal with the Phillies. That explains why Dombrowski didn't bring him back. DD doesn't do minor league deals...

[notin]

There are some extenuating circumstances with Brentz's years in the minors, such as shooting honeyBee and not being able to see very well until 2 years ago.

 

He may be the player that breaks the mold. I definitely think he deserves a chance to make the 25 man roster, even if he struggles in ST'ing, but if we sign JD, there's just no reason to keep him on the roster, unless on the DL- phantom or otherwise. If he does very well in ST'ing, he might be traded. If we trade JBJ, he stays. If we trade HRam, we could keep him around.

 

 

 

The fact remains one player on the 40 man roster DEFINITELY has to go somewhere. And unless Dombrowski reset the luxury tax in order to achieve a status quo roster, two players definitely have to go somewhere.

 

Trades coul happen but are unlikely. They can take too long and, really what are the Sox going to get for Holt at this point? The goal of trading is to improve the team or organization. Is keeping Brentz over Holt going to accomplish that? If Brentz is so much better, isn't he a better trade candidate?

 

Also not sure why people think Brentz, a DFA candidate with no options, has any trade value to Oakland, who has the first waiver claim

[cp176]

The fact remains one player on the 40 man roster DEFINITELY has to go somewhere. And unless Dombrowski reset the luxury tax in order to achieve a status quo roster, two players definitely have to go somewhere.

 

Trades coul happen but are unlikely. They can take too long and, really what are the Sox going to get for Holt at this point? The goal of trading is to improve the team or organization. Is keeping Brentz over Holt going to accomplish that? If Brentz is so much better, isn't he a better trade candidate?

 

Also not sure why people think Brentz, a DFA candidate with no options, has any trade value to Oakland, who has the first waiver claim

 

With better and of course younger options (you like that) to do the very same things that Holt has done, why do you think anyone would consider keeping a light hitting Holt over someone that actually might bring something to the table that could help the team? My answer would be that people are affected by the loyalty factor here more than anything else.

[Spudboy]

The fact remains one player on the 40 man roster DEFINITELY has to go somewhere. And unless Dombrowski reset the luxury tax in order to achieve a status quo roster, two players definitely have to go somewhere.

 

Trades coul happen but are unlikely. They can take too long and, really what are the Sox going to get for Holt at this point? The goal of trading is to improve the team or organization. Is keeping Brentz over Holt going to accomplish that? If Brentz is so much better, isn't he a better trade candidate?

 

Also not sure why people think Brentz, a DFA candidate with no options, has any trade value to Oakland, who has the first waiver claim

 

Maybe because Beane has been willing to deal with the Sox and maybe because Brentz seems to profile as a Beane-type player. Buy low type guy.

 

I do think Brentz will be playing at least AAA ball this year. I would like to see him get a fair shot in the Bigs just to see if he can translate his new found power to the highest level.

[notin]

Maybe because Beane has been willing to deal with the Sox and maybe because Brentz seems to profile as a Beane-type player. Buy low type guy.

 

I do think Brentz will be playing at least AAA ball this year. I would like to see him get a fair shot in the Bigs just to see if he can translate his new found power to the highest level.

 

The point was there i no pint for Oakland to actually trade and give up anything for Brentz. They can wait until he is DFA'd and make the first (and successful) claim. If they trade anything for a player they can have for free a couple days later, they did not buy low. (And anyway, given that Brentz is coming off a career year, isn't this his his value ia likely at it's highest?)

 

Of course I think any team acquiring Brentz would prefer letting him clear waivers as opposed to claiming or trading for him. That way they can sign him to an MiLB deal and are not forced to keep him on the 25 man roster.

 

But unless Dombrowski reset the LRT in order to bring back Moreland and Nunez, the Sox are going to have to DFA two players at some point. If Brentz isn't one of them, who is?

 

(I think Brentz and Marrero are givens here. But apparently Brentz has a fanbase who thinks the Sox need to keep him on the 25 man roster.)

[notin]

With better and of course younger options (you like that) to do the very same things that Holt has done, why do you think anyone would consider keeping a light hitting Holt over someone that actually might bring something to the table that could help the team? My answer would be that people are affected by the loyalty factor here more than anything else.

 

As opposed to the "Career Season in the Minors" factor?

 

Don't forget. One advantage Holt gives you is he can be sent to Pawtucket. That is a big deal. Brentz cannot be sent to Pawtucket.

 

Holt is a DFA candidate as well, but I think his option gives him an advantage over Brentz...

[cp176]

As opposed to the "Career Season in the Minors" factor?

 

Don't forget. One advantage Holt gives you is he can be sent to Pawtucket. That is a big deal. Brentz cannot be sent to Pawtucket.

 

Holt is a DFA candidate as well, but I think his option gives him an advantage over Brentz...

 

I do think that the option makes a difference . In terms of simple talent and what a player might be able to give you that you are lacking, it would be Brentz for me all the way. We have plenty of guys here who if they looked like Holt they could be mistaken for him. I care not that his best efforts have come at the AAA level.

[notin]

I do think that the option makes a difference . In terms of simple talent and what a player might be able to give you that you are lacking, it would be Brentz for me all the way. We have plenty of guys here who if they looked like Holt they could be mistaken for him. I care not that his best efforts have come at the AAA level.

 

I think the option is a huge difference, and his power numbers are inconsequential since it's a backup role, and he really only backs up two guys, Swihart also has no topions, but is being tried at 4 or 5 different positions. Swihart's limited success in some small stints in MLB probably also helps his case. But I think the versatility is a bigger deal.

 

As fornot caring that Brentz sucess came in in AAA, that's only part of the issue,and a very small part. He also did not have them until his sixth season in AAA at age 28. THAT is a bigger deal and speaks to his ability to adjust. I know he missed parts of a season here and there, but let's be realistic. We are traling about SIX YEARS to adjust to MiLB pitching. How many will it take to adjust to MLB pitching? If you want to use his injuries as an excuse for adjusting to AAA pitching, can you promise me he won't get injured in the majors?

[Spudboy]

Still, he did have 31 homers in AAA.

 

It would be foolish to brush that off just because it happened after so many years in the minors.

 

The bottom part of the 25 man is loaded with players who have done jack s*** in the majors and little more in the minors. Among that group, 31 homers looks good.

[Natick to NC]

I don't think I'd give up just yet on two players ....Blake and Bryce may shock just about everyone this year ....backs against the wall I'm calling it now ....Two players I'd absolutely move on from Sandy and Holt .I like these two players but there upside is non existent .I believe in Blake and Bryce not for the struggle or the road they traveled ...it is an amazing road huge ups and downs ...I love the story but it's the undeniable talent they have .Now I need them to believe and trust that talent ..I do Not want Blake taking his talents elsewhere he's very gifted .I believe Blake is capable of 20 stolen bags ...hitting 275 and hitting 25 HR right now this year...we need Blake to step up take his career path back now .look for you're pitch and crush that s*** the both of you . Edited February 17, 2018 by Natick to NC

[cp176]

I think the option is a huge difference, and his power numbers are inconsequential since it's a backup role, and he really only backs up two guys, Swihart also has no topions, but is being tried at 4 or 5 different positions. Swihart's limited success in some small stints in MLB probably also helps his case. But I think the versatility is a bigger deal.

 

As fornot caring that Brentz sucess came in in AAA, that's only part of the issue,and a very small part. He also did not have them until his sixth season in AAA at age 28. THAT is a bigger deal and speaks to his ability to adjust. I know he missed parts of a season here and there, but let's be realistic. We are traling about SIX YEARS to adjust to MiLB pitching. How many will it take to adjust to MLB pitching? If you want to use his injuries as an excuse for adjusting to AAA pitching, can you promise me he won't get injured in the majors?

 

I think that you are making too much of a big deal out of the age factor. We have someone finally doing something pretty good and doing something that we really need. You are trying to convince me that this guy isn't at least worth another look ? We do not know what Brentz or Barfield might bring to the table. I'm pretty sure that unless Holt and the rest of his look alikes morph into physical specimens all of a sudden, we have a pretty good idea that they will bring something we already have in abundance. As for your comment about potential injuries, Im just assuming that you are making a joke because you do sound smarter than that. They all run this risk.

[cp176]

And notin please don't try to turn what I am saying into something that it isn't. I'm not pounding the drum thinking that either of these two guys will ever make it. I would really like to find out though.

[notin]

I don't think I'd give up just yet on two players ....Blake and Bryce may shock just about everyone this year ....backs against the wall I'm calling it now ....Two players I'd absolutely move on from Sandy and Holt .I like these two players but there upside is non existent .I believe in Blake and Bryce not for the struggle or the road they traveled ...it is an amazing road huge ups and downs ...I love the story but it's the undeniable talent they have .Now I need them to believe and trust that talent ..I do Not want Blake taking his talents elsewhere he's very gifted .I believe Blake is capable of 20 stolen bags ...hitting 275 and hitting 25 HR right now this year...we need Blake to step up take his career path back now .look for you're pitch and crush that s*** the both of you .

 

Holt has very little upside but he can spend it in Pawtucket. Brentz, Leon and Swihart cannot.

 

I do doubt Leon is a DFA candidate, as that would mean either Swihart is the BUC or they have to add another player anyway. And since Leon is a good defensive catcher, might as well keep him even though he will never hit again like he did in 2016...

[notin]

I think that you are making too much of a big deal out of the age factor. We have someone finally doing something pretty good and doing something that we really need. You are trying to convince me that this guy isn't at least worth another look ? We do not know what Brentz or Barfield might bring to the table. I'm pretty sure that unless Holt and the rest of his look alikes morph into physical specimens all of a sudden, we have a pretty good idea that they will bring something we already have in abundance. As for your comment about potential injuries, Im just assuming that you are making a joke because you do sound smarter than that. They all run this risk.

 

I'm trying to tell you he is a DFA cnadidate and it isn't just the age factor; it's a combination of hi age, lack of options, learning curve, and injury history that make him one. It's not so much about whether or not he "deserves a shot." Does he deserve to be on the 25 man roster over any of the other candidates? Does he deserve it more than Heranandez? Holt? Swihart?

[cp176]

I'm trying to tell you he is a DFA cnadidate and it isn't just the age factor; it's a combination of hi age, lack of options, learning curve, and injury history that make him one. It's not so much about whether or not he "deserves a shot." Does he deserve to be on the 25 man roster over any of the other candidates? Does he deserve it more than Heranandez? Holt? Swihart?

 

I don't think that it is about what anyone deserves. It is more about actually earning something to me. It certainly becomes much more important to me when there exists even a chance that a player might have something that a team dearly needs. Holt has a had a great opportunity and at times has certainly helped us but I truly believe that it is time to move on from him. I do not feel that Hernandez or Swihart really have had much of an opportunity to show us what they are capable of just yet. I still believe that there are roster spots up for grabs at this time. No one gets owed anything - no one deserves something that they just don't earn.

[cp176]

I'm trying to tell you he is a DFA cnadidate and it isn't just the age factor; it's a combination of hi age, lack of options, learning curve, and injury history that make him one. It's not so much about whether or not he "deserves a shot." Does he deserve to be on the 25 man roster over any of the other candidates? Does he deserve it more than Heranandez? Holt? Swihart?

 

 

Oh and yes - you continue to make too much of an issue about age. If they can provide what we need better than others, is a player's age really that important to you?

[notin]

Oh and yes - you continue to make too much of an issue about age. If they can provide what we need better than others, is a player's age really that important to you?

 

So you're saying that if the Sox sign a DH, they should keep Brentz on the 25 man roster on the off-chance he will be the first player in MLB history to spend that much time in the minors and actually maintain his power, which will be on the bench anyway? And in order to keep Brentz, the Sox will instead have to DFA someone else. So who? It could be Holt but then you're paying him $2mill to play for someone else and he didn't need to occupy a 25 man roster spot. Who should they DFA? Swihart? Johnson? A different pitcher? Lin?

 

Bear in mind that Marrero likely gets DFAd once Nunez signs....

[cp176]

So you're saying that if the Sox sign a DH, they should keep Brentz on the 25 man roster on the off-chance he will be the first player in MLB history to spend that much time in the minors and actually maintain his power, which will be on the bench anyway? And in order to keep Brentz, the Sox will instead have to DFA someone else. So who? It could be Holt but then you're paying him $2mill to play for someone else and he didn't need to occupy a 25 man roster spot. Who should they DFA? Swihart? Johnson? A different pitcher? Lin?

 

Bear in mind that Marrero likely gets DFAd once Nunez signs....

 

What are you trying to say notin that you think I said? You now are trying to be a little too shrewd. Obviously the signing of a big bat like Martinez makes a big difference. I never even insinuated the our team should keep Brentz or Barfield as opposed to a Martinez signing. I don't think that we have signed him just yet though. Maybe I missed something.

[moonslav59]

I don't think that it is about what anyone deserves. It is more about actually earning something to me. It certainly becomes much more important to me when there exists even a chance that a player might have something that a team dearly needs. Holt has a had a great opportunity and at times has certainly helped us but I truly believe that it is time to move on from him. I do not feel that Hernandez or Swihart really have had much of an opportunity to show us what they are capable of just yet. I still believe that there are roster spots up for grabs at this time. No one gets owed anything - no one deserves something that they just don't earn.

 

The thing is, unless there's an injury, none of these guys who seem to "deserve a shot" will get enough steady playing time to determine much about their value level and projected future.

 

Brentz

 

Swihart

 

Marrero

 

Johnson

 

When we sign Nunez, Marco will not likely get his chance to prove anything.

 

Even a guy like Holt, who had a few decent year and is overcoming concussion issues, probably deserves a chance, but will not get one.

[Kimmi]

Still, he did have 31 homers in AAA.

 

It would be foolish to brush that off just because it happened after so many years in the minors.

 

The bottom part of the 25 man is loaded with players who have done jack s*** in the majors and little more in the minors. Among that group, 31 homers looks good.

 

I do think that Brentz deserves a chance based on what he did last year. I'm not saying that I think he will repeat that at the major league level, just that he has earned the chance in my book.

 

Unfortunately for him, baseball and rosters are a numbers game. I can't see the Sox hanging onto him when he has no options, while DFAing another comparable player who does have options.

[Kimmi]

Holt has very little upside but he can spend it in Pawtucket. Brentz, Leon and Swihart cannot.

 

I do doubt Leon is a DFA candidate, as that would mean either Swihart is the BUC or they have to add another player anyway. And since Leon is a good defensive catcher, might as well keep him even though he will never hit again like he did in 2016...

 

And that is the bottom line.

[moonslav59]

Apparently Abad signed a minor league deal with the Phillies. That explains why Dombrowski didn't bring him back. DD doesn't do minor league deals...

 

Rajai Davis just signed with the Guardians, so there will be no complete 2017 reunion.

[moonslav59]

I do think that Brentz deserves a chance based on what he did last year. I'm not saying that I think he will repeat that at the major league level, just that he has earned the chance in my book.

 

Unfortunately for him, baseball and rosters are a numbers game. I can't see the Sox hanging onto him when he has no options, while DFAing another comparable player who does have options.

 

I know most or even all teams are facing the same roster crunch, but I'm wondering if there could be a taker out there that would take an out of options player for one with options, even if it's a slight step down for us or a prospect with a higher ceiling, but he might be far away from the bigs. Another option might be to trade 2 out of options players for one. Something like...

 

Brentz & Johnson for a better 6th starter than Johnson

 

Swihart & Johnson for a better 6th starter

 

Brentz or Swihart and Hembree for a better RP'er than Hembree.

 

Marrero & Brentz for a utility player with an option

[Natick to NC]

I know most or even all teams are facing the same roster crunch, but I'm wondering if there could be a taker out there that would take an out of options player for one with options, even if it's a slight step down for us or a prospect with a higher ceiling, but he might be far away from the bigs. Another option might be to trade 2 out of options players for one. Something like...

 

Brentz & Johnson for a better 6th starter than Johnson

 

Swihart & Johnson for a better 6th starter

 

Brentz or Swihart and Hembree for a better RP'er than Hembree.

 

Marrero & Brentz for a utility player with an option

Moon let me atleast have the dream of both blake and Bryce making the roster ....if it's not much to ask ? Atleast until end of spring training .

Edited February 18, 2018 by Natick to NC

[moonslav59]

Moon let me atleast have the dream of both blake and Bryce making the roster ....if it's not much to ask ? Atleast until end of spring training .

 

For that to happen, we might have to trade JBJ (assuming we sign JD to play OF/DH) or Leon (so Swihart would be the lone back-up catcher.

 

I'd be fine with Marrero being the first guy to go and mybe Elias being the second off the 40 man roster, but we just won't have room for JD, Nunez, Brentz and Swihart without some DL activity or trades.