2017/18 Hot Stove Thread

[S5Dewey]

I'm tired of being held hostage to Borass and Martinez. I'm about ready to gamble that the Sox are the only suitors and make a different offer. Tell Borass that our best offer today is 5/&125MM and you have 24 hours to make up your mind. Tomorrow at noon our best offer will be 5/120MM. We'll have to see what our best offer will be after 48 hours if you refuse these.

 

If the Sox are the only suitor in this price range it may get JD moving, and if not we move on - which I'm nearly ready to do anyway.

[moonslav59]

I suspect Scott Boras informed J.D. Martinez that the initial asking price was not where the negotiations would likely end.

 

For all we know the current offers have already met his realistic expectations but Martinez is waiting for the bidding to leave only one team standing.

 

Or not.

 

Agree. The top offer may be close to $125M/5, and Boras has probably told JD, he thinks he might be able to get a little more by waiting.

[moonslav59]

I'm tired of being held hostage to Borass and Martinez. I'm about ready to gamble that the Sox are the only suitors and make a different offer. Tell Borass that our best offer today is 5/&125MM and you have 24 hours to make up your mind. Tomorrow at noon our best offer will be 5/120MM. We'll have to see what our best offer will be after 48 hours if you refuse these.

 

If the Sox are the only suitor in this price range it may get JD moving, and if not we move on - which I'm nearly ready to do anyway.

 

I know we all feel frustrated by this waiting game, but to me, there is no urgency until our other options begin to sign elsewhere. If DD only has one other major option, and that player is about to sign, then something like this makes sense.

 

If there's a chancde that option signs quickly without notice to us (giving us a chance to top the offer) then, I agree, the time could be now.

[FredLynn]

Is there a way to rename this thread?

I would suggest "The Cold Stove Thread".....

[moonslav59]

Is there a way to rename this thread?

I would suggest "The Cold Stove Thread".....

 

Or, "The Refrigerator Thread."

[oldtimer]

Players sign contracts they're not happy with all the time, simply because it's the best offer.

 

If Martinez was looking for $200mill and his offers top out at $125mill, he isn't going too not sign, and it doesn't make him happy. Right now the talk ia the red sox are "bidding against themselves". Is that what's going on? Our are they closing the gap in an effort to appease Martinez as much as possible?

 

Players are only worth what the market will pay. If an offer of $125 for 5 is the top offer then that sets the market. The risk factor for the team is that the player will not provide value according to the offer. The player/agent accepts the risk that offers may be withdrawn and then other teams may offer significantly less. If the Sox truly have $125 million on the table for 5 years and Martinez is holding us up for more, my patience would run out and i would withdraw the offer and move on.

[cp176]

Players are only worth what the market will pay. If an offer of $125 for 5 is the top offer then that sets the market. The risk factor for the team is that the player will not provide value according to the offer. The player/agent accepts the risk that offers may be withdrawn and then other teams may offer significantly less. If the Sox truly have $125 million on the table for 5 years and Martinez is holding us up for more, my patience would run out and i would withdraw the offer and move on.

 

We really haven't heard a great deal coming from management about the JD situation. Could be that there just isn't anything to report. Personally, based on what I have heard has been offered, if that isn't enough for Martinez and from all accounts it appears that it isn't - time to move on. He and his agent are basically holding the Red Sox hostage. It is a gross overpay in terms of what is right in the real world anyway. He does not appear to want to play for Boston badly enough for me. Over and out! These guys are all rich and most of them are spoiled. The redeeming quality is when I hear one of them talk about how special it is to play here and how much it means to them to be here.

[harmony]

MLB Trade Rumors pulls together recent report on the Red Sox:

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2018/01/red-sox-notes-roster-swihart-pomeranz.html

[Bellhorn04]

This is not something new to Boras. He often asks for the moon and stars only to settle for way less. I don't see the JD starting point as out of line with past initial Boras starting numbers.

 

As far as public statements that were way out of line, the only one I remember is Varitek. And that was a while ago. Any others you can think of?

[Bellhorn04]

MLB Trade Rumors pulls together recent report on the Red Sox:

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2018/01/red-sox-notes-roster-swihart-pomeranz.html

 

Good point about DD contradicting himself by now expressing comfort with the 2018 Red Sox offense after saying "I didn't supply the players that would give us enough runs" following last season.

[notin]

It's possible that Boras misread the market this time. MLBTR predicted a contract of 6/$150 for JDM and that seems quite fair.

 

Boras came out and publicly declared he was looking for 7/$210. That is a huge gap and I think we're seeing that his number was completely unrealistic.

 

Has he created a situation where his client feels embarrassed by how low the actual offers are? I don't know but I think it's possible.

 

It's probably both.

 

They were hoping for, say, 6-7 years in the $150-180 mill range and therefore asked for 7 years $210, giving them some room to "cave in" on while hopefully settling at the goal price.

 

But this market appears to be nowhere near that goal price...

[notin]

Players are only worth what the market will pay. If an offer of $125 for 5 is the top offer then that sets the market. The risk factor for the team is that the player will not provide value according to the offer. The player/agent accepts the risk that offers may be withdrawn and then other teams may offer significantly less. If the Sox truly have $125 million on the table for 5 years and Martinez is holding us up for more, my patience would run out and i would withdraw the offer and move on.

 

I was there a week ago. Chant it with me - NoMo Kong! LoMo Now!! NoMo Kong! LoMo Now!! NoMo Kong! LoMo Now!! ..

[moonslav59]

Players are only worth what the market will pay. If an offer of $125 for 5 is the top offer then that sets the market. The risk factor for the team is that the player will not provide value according to the offer. The player/agent accepts the risk that offers may be withdrawn and then other teams may offer significantly less. If the Sox truly have $125 million on the table for 5 years and Martinez is holding us up for more, my patience would run out and i would withdraw the offer and move on.

 

If we are willing to pay him $125M/5, and we walk away and let him settle for less, what have we gained?

 

The only danger is losing out on our secondary options by waiting. Since nobody else is signing, I don't see the urgency in forcing the issue. That risks a lose-lose situation.

 

I know it's frustrating for us fans to wait and wait, and I'd be fine with moving on from JD by maybe signing Darvish and Nunez, but if JD is truly the number one option, I'm not giving up just because Boras is looking for more at this moment.

[notin]

It's frustrating because it's January 20th and the most significant addition to last year's roster is probably some guy named Esteban Quiroz...

[moonslav59]

As far as public statements that were way out of line, the only one I remember is Varitek. And that was a while ago. Any others you can think of?

 

He has a long history of asking for much more than his players end up getting. Sure, some get pretty close (like Fielder). The same goes to owners who start low and end up signing players for significantly more than their first offer.

 

The Vtek situation is the example of Boras failing his client miserably. I wasn't trying to imply that type of result occurs often. I'm just saying Boras clients often end up signing for much less that the beginning stated suggested signing price given by Boras.

[harmony]

He has a long history of asking for much more than his players end up getting. Sure, some get pretty close (like Fielder). The same goes to owners who start low and end up signing players for significantly more than their first offer.

 

The Vtek situation is the example of Boras failing his client miserably. I wasn't trying to imply that type of result occurs often. I'm just saying Boras clients often end up signing for much less that the beginning stated suggested signing price given by Boras.

And teams often end up signing free agents for more than the team's initial offer.

[cp176]

If we are willing to pay him $125M/5, and we walk away and let him settle for less, what have we gained?

 

The only danger is losing out on our secondary options by waiting. Since nobody else is signing, I don't see the urgency in forcing the issue. That risks a lose-lose situation.

 

I know it's frustrating for us fans to wait and wait, and I'd be fine with moving on from JD by maybe signing Darvish and Nunez, but if JD is truly the number one option, I'm not giving up just because Boras is looking for more at this moment.

 

I truly prefer players who really want to be here.

[notin]

MLB Trade Rumors pulls together recent report on the Red Sox:

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2018/01/red-sox-notes-roster-swihart-pomeranz.html

 

From taht article

Drellich also tweets that although left-hander Drew Pomeranz is open to a long-term extension with the Red Sox, the two sides have not discussed one to date. The 29-year-old southpaw made 32 starts for Boston in 2017, pitching 173 2/3 innings of 3.32 ERA baseball. He’s set to become a free agent at the end of the season.

 

 

I think this is what is the most frustrating. Let the Martinez negotiations drag out as long as it takes one way or the other. But that this whole thing has put EVERYTHING else on hold? I'm beginning to think that not only can DD not multitask, he can't even task all that well...

[moonslav59]

It's frustrating because it's January 20th and the most significant addition to last year's roster is probably some guy named Esteban Quiroz...

 

I get it. Although no big free agents have signed with anybody, other teams have added big-named players via trades.

 

Bringing Moreland back is not really adding anything.

 

I'm confident we add a key piece from free agency. I'm not worried. I don't think we need to present a now-or-never offer just to placate some restless fans.

 

If we get to the point where we may lose out on Darvish or other secondary options, then hell yes! Tell Boras, "It's now or never."

 

I don't think we are at the point in time right now. It's not like the government is shut down or something! Errr, wait...

[notin]

I truly prefer players who really want to be here.

 

The money is a big part of the reason every player wants to be where they are...

[moonslav59]

From taht article

Drellich also tweets that although left-hander Drew Pomeranz is open to a long-term extension with the Red Sox, the two sides have not discussed one to date. The 29-year-old southpaw made 32 starts for Boston in 2017, pitching 173 2/3 innings of 3.32 ERA baseball. He’s set to become a free agent at the end of the season.

 

 

I think this is what is the most frustrating. Let the Martinez negotiations drag out as long as it takes one way or the other. But that this whole thing has put EVERYTHING else on hold? I'm beginning to think that not only can DD not multitask, he can't even task all that well...

 

LOL!

 

If DD wanted to extend Pom now, he could do it now.

 

Is Pom going to walk, because he wasn't presented with an offer in January rather than February?

[notin]

LOL!

 

If DD wanted to extend Pom now, he could do it now.

 

Is Pom going to walk, because he wasn't presented with an offer in January rather than February?

 

So.. why not at least start the process? I don't care when Pomeranz signs, but it's the complete lack of action that is troublesome.

 

It's like Dombrowski fears calling Pomeranz' agent because he doesn't want to tie up the line in case Boras is trying to get through. (Hint - Dave. That's not how phones work any more.)

[Bellhorn04]

So.. why not at least start the process? I don't care when Pomeranz signs, but it's the complete lack of action that is troublesome.

 

It's like Dombrowski fears calling Pomeranz' agent because he doesn't want to tie up the line in case Boras is trying to get through. (Hint - Dave. That's not how phones work any more.)

 

OTOH I find it hard to believe Dombrowski is just sitting at his desk surfing the internet all day.

[cp176]

The money is a big part of the reason every player wants to be where they are...

 

thank you Notin - I do understand that though believe it or not. The longer these negotiations drag on the less appeal imo Martinez will have to the real Red Sox fan. It will make no difference how well he hits either. He has to make the right choice for him and his family but he has to live with that choice as well. I think that I represent a fair number of like minded fans and I'm really ready to move away from this guy regardless of all the good things I have read about him. He has been given 125 million reasons perhaps to sign with us. If that isn't enough, so be it let him play for less in some other loser hell hole. Maybe the Mariners (Harmony) can swoop in and pony up the dough. See ya.

[notin]

OTOH I find it hard to believe Dombrowski is just sitting at his desk surfing the internet all day.

 

Sadly, I am starting to find it easier to believe every day.

 

I think his daily reminders from his Outlook Planner pop up and say

 

"9AM - Call Scott. Verify status quo"

 

"10AM to 5PM - Surf internet. See what other GMs are doing."

[notin]

thank you Notin - I do understand that though believe it or not. The longer these negotiations drag on the less appeal imo Martinez will have to the real Red Sox fan. It will make no difference how well he hits either. He has to make the right choice for him and his family but he has to live with that choice as well. I think that I represent a fair number of like minded fans and I'm really ready to move away from this guy regardless of all the good things I have read about him. He has been given 125 million reasons perhaps to sign with us. If that isn't enough, so be it let him play for less in some other loser hell hole. Maybe the Mariners (Harmony) can swoop in and pony up the dough. See ya.

 

hey I've been calling for the Sox to move on for a week now. I think of you as late to the game there.

 

Come with me to the LoMo Train.

[moonslav59]

So.. why not at least start the process? I don't care when Pomeranz signs, but it's the complete lack of action that is troublesome.

 

It's like Dombrowski fears calling Pomeranz' agent because he doesn't want to tie up the line in case Boras is trying to get through. (Hint - Dave. That's not how phones work any more.)

 

Maybe DD is not interested is extending Pom.

 

Maybe DD is close to making an offer.

 

I know we don't want to be negotiating during the season, so time is getting short, assuming an extension is desired, but it's not that late in the winter.

 

I think we just are all accustomed to having winter all wrapped up by now.

 

Relax. Winter is a long season.

[notin]

Maybe DD is not interested is extending Pom.

 

Maybe DD is close to making an offer.

 

I know we don't want to be negotiating during the season, so time is getting short, assuming an extension is desired, but it's not that late in the winter.

 

I think we just are all accustomed to having winter all wrapped up by now.

 

Relax. Winter is a long season.

 

Like I said, the problem is DD hasn't even started the process.

 

I don't know how long a contract extension takes to negotiate - maybe minutes, maybe months - but that he hasn't even called his agent to say "I'd like to work something out" is the disturbing part.

 

Unless he prefer Pomeranz walk after 2018..

[moonslav59]

Like I said, the problem is DD hasn't even started the process.

 

I don't know how long a contract extension takes to negotiate - maybe minutes, maybe months - but that he hasn't even called his agent to say "I'd like to work something out" is the disturbing part.

 

Unless he prefer Pomeranz walk after 2018..

 

Why is it so "disturbing?" There's months to go before opening day.

 

Maybe, DD knows he does not want to pay Pom what he is likely to get/want. Maybe his plan is to offer him a QO.

 

I seriously doubt DD is spending every waking moment trying to decide if he will up his offer to JD or not.

[Bellhorn04]

Relax. Winter is a long season.

 

Time is actually getting short. We are now at about the midpoint between Christmas Day and the start of spring training. And Christmas Day doesn't feel very long ago.