2017/18 Hot Stove Thread

[jacksonianmarch]

It is for sure. It’s a popularity contest

[Jack Flap]

The gold glove is meant for the best defensive player at a position. Most Valuable Player takes on a different meaning. The best player may not be the most valuable. Altuve has the highest WAR in the AL, but without him, do the Astros win the AL West (remember, this is a regular season award). They probably do. Aaron Judge has a decidedly lower WAR, but without him, do the Yankees win the 1st wild card? Probably not. I guarantee it will be closer than people think as Judge’s performance elevated NY into a playoff team whereas Altuve took a playoff caliber team and turned them into a 100 win team

 

Basically, according to this argument, Altuve was better, but Judge's teammates weren't as good as Altuve's, therefore Judge should win? Seems a ridiculous way to judge an individual award. I'd just as soon see it go to the best overall player and call it a day, but that's just me.

[jacksonianmarch]

Basically, according to this argument, Altuve was better, but Judge's teammates weren't as good as Altuve's, therefore Judge should win? Seems a ridiculous way to judge an individual award. I'd just as soon see it go to the best overall player and call it a day, but that's just me.

 

Jack, you’re logic is entirely sound. But this is how some people vote. This is why the award rarely goes to a player from a bad team. Last year was an exception

[Spudboy]

Buxton, you mean.

 

Actually those are pretty good candidates if you're not nominating JBJ. Kiermaier is another but he missed a lot of time this year. It's not like they put Aaron Judge up instead of Bradley.

 

The GG was a bigger joke when guys like Mike Schmidt won it every year for lackluster defensive play but lots and lots of home runs...

 

I have no problem with Pillar or Kiermier because I have seen them make great plays for several years. Buxton I admit I know little about. Maybe he is deserving but JBJ has been deserving for 3 or so years and has never made it.

 

To me that is a f***ing joke.

[Spudboy]

None of these awards mean a thing to me. Nor do any other of the other awards in the worlds of sports, the arts, whatever.

 

Yup. I am particularly offended by those that get a pat on the back for just doing their jobs. Which is to entertain.

[Spudboy]

If an MVP award must be given out in the AL then it has to go to Altuve.

 

Judge gets a huge bump from playing in NYC.

 

The process is a joke.

[a700hitter]

I have no problem with Pillar or Kiermier because I have seen them make great plays for several years. Buxton I admit I know little about. Maybe he is deserving but JBJ has been deserving for 3 or so years and has never made it.

 

To me that is a f***ing joke.

I saw a little of Buxton this year, and he is right up there with the others. Some say that he is the best of the bunch. I have seen quite a bit of Cain, and i don't think he is in that upper group.

[notin]

If an MVP award must be given out in the AL then it has to go to Altuve.

 

Judge gets a huge bump from playing in NYC.

 

The process is a joke.

 

Like the Yankees or not, Judge is a legitimate candidate. To me, the big argument against him is the Yankees did quite well during his second half swoon...

[moonslav59]

Like the Yankees or not, Judge is a legitimate candidate. To me, the big argument against him is the Yankees did quite well during his second half swoon...

 

IMO, Judge is a clear second place in MVP.

[jacksonianmarch]

IMO, Judge is a clear second place in MVP.

 

I agree

[moonslav59]

I agree

 

Other years, he could have won it with that performance.

[Kimmi]

Buxton, you mean.

 

Actually those are pretty good candidates if you're not nominating JBJ. Kiermaier is another but he missed a lot of time this year. It's not like they put Aaron Judge up instead of Bradley.

 

The GG was a bigger joke when guys like Mike Schmidt won it every year for lackluster defensive play but lots and lots of home runs...

 

The Gold Glove awards have become much, much better after they added a sabermetric component to it 3 or 4 years ago. I'm telling you, if you want the awards done right, let the stat geeks do the voting.

[Larry Cook]

So what are you proposing?

 

MLB set up a matrix of defensive stats and whoever has the best cumulative score on those stats is the gold glove winner?

[a700hitter]

Buxton, you mean.

 

Actually those are pretty good candidates if you're not nominating JBJ. Kiermaier is another but he missed a lot of time this year. It's not like they put Aaron Judge up instead of Bradley.

 

The GG was a bigger joke when guys like Mike Schmidt won it every year for lackluster defensive play but lots and lots of home runs...

Schmidt was an excellent fielder.

[jacksonianmarch]

One guy I haven’t thought of, but is clearly going to be in the sox crosshairs is Justin Upton. He put up a 5 WAR season and unlike JD, he plays solid defense and can run. He’s also healthier. While JD would likely be relegated to DH duties, Justin could unseat one of your OFers and allow you to use them for trade. I could see the sox nabbing Upton, moving Beni or Betts to CF and using Bradley to fill a rotation hole or the 2b hole

[cp176]

Schmidt was an excellent fielder.

 

I remember him being a damned good fielder as well. You suppose it was our eyes fooling us again?

[notin]

I remember him being a damned good fielder as well. You suppose it was our eyes fooling us again?

 

He had contemporaries who were better fielders but who didn't hit as many home runs...

[notin]

Schmidt was an excellent fielder.

 

Did he deserve a Gold Glove for his defense alone?

[harmony]

Did he deserve a Gold Glove for his defense alone?

Mike Schmidt probably deserved the Gold Glove for his defense alone early in his career but that established defensive reputation carried over during his later defensive decline.

 

Using Total Zone*, the defensive metric applied to that era, Schmidt earned the Gold Glove with high scores in the mid-1970s:

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=1011586&position=3B#fielding

 

... but even his Gold Glove recognition was delayed a year or two:

 

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/awards/aw_gg3b.shtml

 

All told, the 10-time Gold Glove winner deserved his reputation.

 

* Total Zone explained: https://www.fangraphs.com/library/defense/tz-tzl/

[moonslav59]

One guy I haven’t thought of, but is clearly going to be in the sox crosshairs is Justin Upton. He put up a 5 WAR season and unlike JD, he plays solid defense and can run. He’s also healthier. While JD would likely be relegated to DH duties, Justin could unseat one of your OFers and allow you to use them for trade. I could see the sox nabbing Upton, moving Beni or Betts to CF and using Bradley to fill a rotation hole or the 2b hole

 

I've been thinking more and more about Upton. He's passed Moustakas and Santana on my list.

 

1. JD Martinez

2. Stanton

3. Upton

4. Santana

5. Moustakas

6. Morrison/Duda plus Bruce or some other good 4th OF'er.

 

If we could get Upton and Santana, we might be pretty well set-up. We could trade JBJ, Johnson and Hembree for a starting pitcher.

 

1. Bogey SS

2. Betts RF

3. Beni CF

4. Upton LF

5. Santana 1B

6. Devers 3B

7. HRam DH

8. Pedey 2B (Hernandez/Holt/Lin)

9. Vaz C

Bench: Leon, Hernandez, Lin and Travis/Marrero (Swihart/Castillo/Mars)

 

SP: Sale, Price, Pom, _____, Porcello, Wright (ERod, Velazquez, Beeks, Haley, Elias)

RP: Kimbrel, Smith, Kelly, Barnes, Workman, Maddox, Scott (Thornburg, R Ross, Taylor, Martin)

 

[OH FOY]

More and more I'm liking Santana, for the price. I don't expect 20+ for him. Edited October 29, 2017 by OH FOY!

[moonslav59]

More and more I'm liking Santana, for the price. I don't expect 20+ for him.

 

Why not?

 

He'd be a switch hitter playing half his games in Fenway Park.

 

He's a true switch hitter, too.

 

.808 career vs RHP (26 HRs per 650 PA)

.815 career vs LHPs (17 HRs per 650)

 

HRs last few seasons:

27 2011

18 2012

20 2013

27 2014

19 2015

34 2016

23 2017

 

He's played between 143 and 158 every season since becoming a FT'er in 2011 (609-688 PAs).

 

He also has some added value as an emergency 3rd string catcher, which may allow Cora more freedom to PH for our starting catcher more often.

 

 

 

[jacksonianmarch]

Another thing I wouldn't be surprised about. The sox may be a good landing place on a pillow contract for another right handed power hitter. Todd Frazier in Boston would hit 30HR. I thought the Yankees would offer him a pillow contract, but if he really wanted to rebuild his value, going to Boston would be the ticket. That moves Devers and his awful D to 1b

[oldtimer]

This has little to do with the Sox other than how TV broadcasting is killing the goose that laid the golden egg. I decided to watch OSU and PSU match up in the college football game of the day. I am not an alum of either but I have to admit I rooted for PSU who lost in the end. The problem I had was the plethora of ads, which exceeded the broadcast both in time and intensity. Every conceivable excuse for an ad they blasted in. I muted all but couldn't help but see the flipping from one ad to another in few second bursts then on to another.

 

After going through that, I vowed never to watch another FB game on TV unless they were one I held in great interest and the same will go for other sporting events. I have had way too much of the bad taste the TV networks subject us to. They must believe they have a totally captive audience.

[moonslav59]

Another thing I wouldn't be surprised about. The sox may be a good landing place on a pillow contract for another right handed power hitter. Todd Frazier in Boston would hit 30HR. I thought the Yankees would offer him a pillow contract, but if he really wanted to rebuild his value, going to Boston would be the ticket. That moves Devers and his awful D to 1b

 

I hope not, even though I'm on board with moving Devers to 1B, if we can get a better 3Bman than 1Bman this winter.

[Kimmi]

So what are you proposing?

 

MLB set up a matrix of defensive stats and whoever has the best cumulative score on those stats is the gold glove winner?

 

No, I'm proposing that you get a group of stat geeks together to do the voting.

[harmony]

Another blogger calls for a trade of reliever Carson Smith, first baseman Sam Travis and third baseman Michael Chavis to Detroit for relievers Shane Greene and Alex Wilson, utility player Andrew Romine and outfielder Alex Presley:

 

https://motorcitybengals.com/2017/10/25/detroit-tigers-make-trade-boston-red-sox/

 

The blogger contends the Tigers should make that trade. Well, duh. I'm not sure why the Red Sox would further deplete their farm system for that return.

[moonslav59]

Another blogger calls for a trade of reliever Carson Smith, first baseman Sam Travis and third baseman Michael Chavis to Detroit for relievers Shane Greene and Alex Wilson, utility player Andrew Romine and outfielder Alex Presley:

 

https://motorcitybengals.com/2017/10/25/detroit-tigers-make-trade-boston-red-sox/

 

The blogger contends the Tigers should make that trade. Well, duh. I'm not sure why the Red Sox would further deplete their farm system for that return.

 

Find a trade that brings us a solid clean-up hitter.

[harmony]

Find a trade that brings us a solid clean-up hitter.

http://www.weei.com/media/audio-channel/danny-picard-could-red-sox-make-trade-bryce-harper-10-28-17

 

https://www.fishstripes.com/2017/10/18/16485278/the-miami-marlins-and-boston-red-sox-are-destined-trade-partners-stanton-ozuna-yelich-jackie-bradley

 

https://bosoxinjection.com/2017/10/15/potential-red-sox-trade-target-jose-abreu/

 

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/red_sox/2017/10/jennings_red_sox_offseason_shopping_complicated_by_expected_2018_free_agent

 

https://www.boston.com/sports/sports-q/2017/08/15/should-the-red-sox-try-to-trade-for-giancarlo-stanton

 

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/red_sox/2017/10/silverman_red_sox_need_power_but_not_at_giancarlo_stantons_price

 

https://www.bostonglobe.com/lifestyle/names/2017/10/26/jimmy-kimmel-asked-giancarlo-stanton-like-play-for-red-sox/sGoNwPdgkNbW6nb3ygo0kL/story.html

 

http://www.masslive.com/redsox/index.ssf/2017/10/boston_red_sox_potential_trade.html

Edited October 30, 2017 by harmony

[harmony]

Find a trade that brings us a solid clean-up hitter.

This Sons of Sam Horn column includes this paragraph:

The contention window is small, though, so let’s say that it is a price worth paying. What’s the next objection? The cost in dollars. I recently wrote about the Red Sox signing J.D. Martinez by any means necessary. I suggested spending as much as $26.67M annually to get it done. But Stanton’s AAV is $25.77M, you say! Except it’s not: it’s more. Once he’s traded, the AAV is recalculated based on the years remaining on the contract. So his AAV would jump up to $29.5M. That extra $2M or so might not seem like a big deal, but the team effectively has a hard cap at $237M for the 2018 season. Anything over that will incur draft penalties. With the team’s payroll currently estimated at about $202M, $29M brings them up to just over $231M and leaves them with very little room left to maneuver.

http://sonsofsamhorn.com/baseball/majorleaguebaseball/al-east/boston-red-sox/giancarlo-stanton-newest-red-sox/

 

That's not my understanding of how the AAV is calculated for luxury tax purposes.