2017 Yankees Season Thread

[jacksonianmarch]

That wasn't a great post, it was a terrible one.

 

Frazier is a top 20 prospect in all of baseball. He hasn't "blown the minors away" because he has been years younger than his level at every level. He's 22 years old and just put up an .800+ OPS in AAA while on pace for a 20-20 season and playing plus corner OF defense. He has bat speed to spare and as he fills in, he could be a 30 HR hitter and eventually develop solid average skills as well. He has a similar SLG in AAA this year to what Judge had in the minors last year, and Frazier is 18 months younger than Judge was last yr. The kid has immense talent and profiles as a potential All Star OFer.

 

Justus Sheffield isn't just a "good prospect", he's also a top 100 prospect who is left handed and has a 95 mph fastball with a good change and a plus breaking ball. The knock on his has been command and with his BB/9 dropping down to 3.1 this year, expect him to jump up the rankings too. He's a legit top of the rotation ceiling pitcher.

 

We didn't get shortchanged with Miller. We dealt Miller because we thought we were rebuilding. I guarantee we don't make that deal if Cash saw we could be playoff contenders in 2016, but right now we are. And the only reason we are fading is because we've lost an immense amount of talent to injury.

 

Chapman for a month

Bird for half season

Torres for the year

Hicks for a month

CC for a month

Austin for a month

Holliday for god knows how long

Castro for a few weeks

Fowler for the year

Sanchez for a month

 

That's insane in only half a season. We are setup nicely to build a new core and to trade for top talent. I don't think cash would undo that trade because we got a heck of a return, but at the time, the trade was made in the interest of getting younger

[Jasonbay44]

Great post--I think this is a valid criticism. The Yankees would have a better record right now if they kept Miller--we are seeing some weakness from their bullpen; meanwhile, Miller continues to be dominant.

 

I like what the Guardians did in this trade. They gave up Frazier, a good prospect, but not an elite one, and not a guy who has put up elite offensive numbers in the upper-minors. Frazier has looked pretty mediocre in Scranton this year thus far. Sheffield has upside, but he profiles as a middle-of-the-rotation starter at best and the odds are against Sheffield even reaching that level.

 

So, for Miller, the Yankees obtained two pretty good prospects, but neither one has a high ceiling. In other words, the Yankees should have kept A.Miller!

Clint Frazier doesn't have a high ceiling? You actually believe that? He's one of best prospects in baseball. Its one thing to think he might not reach his potential/ceiling but the skill set is definitely there. He's a legit 5 tool player.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

Frazier is 22 years old, just about 23, and he hasn't produced at a very high level in the minors leagues. He certainly hasn't produced to the extent that would suggest a future middle of the order bat. A 22-23 year old whose AAA OPS hovers around .800 isn't exactly setting the world on fire. He was pretty mediocre in AA last year as well. I know he is ranked quite high, but Lars Anderson was ranked high, as were a million other prospects who never made it. I think the exaggerated opinion people have of Frazier is due to how highly he was drafted and the pre-draft perception of Frazier.

 

I think he has some sort of major league career in front of him, but I don't believe he will be a special player or a future middle of the order bat. I don't see the production at this point to make me think he has higher upside. The Guardians sold high on him.

 

There is value in average or mediocre baseball players like Frazier, but you can find mediocre players pretty easily without trading away one of the most dominant relievers in the game today.

 

I don't think you will find anyone projecting Sheffield to be a top of the rotation starter. He doesn't fit the profile. How many 5'10 or 5'11 dominant aces are out there? His Double A ratios certainly don't scream top of the rotation starter. Sure, if he develops into a middle of the rotation starter, that would be a positive thing for the Yankees--such starters are extremely valuable--but so much can and often does go wrong when it comes to developing starting pitchers. The odds are always against it.

 

I respect Cashman. But when it comes to this deal, I think the Guardians did a nice job enticing Cashman into some fool's gold. The Guardians acquired a dominant reliever and didn't give up a high ceiling prospect in return.

[jacksonianmarch]

You honestly don't know much about prospects, do you? Clint Frazier hit well in every level he has started at since he was drafted. He'd struggle on promotion then do well the following year. He's showing the same pattern of adjusting to a new level. He's also a fully rounded prospect. He's a legit 5 tool player. Guys like that don't grow on trees. He projects to hit for average. He projects to hit for power. He projects to steal 20 bases. He has a good eye and can walk. He can play plus defense and can handle CF. He has a cannon in the OF. He hasn't hit to a .900 OPS yet, but that's mostly due to his age. His age is the average age of High A. For a top prospect, he's a year ahead of his time. I'm not sure what you aren't seeing, especially when you figure we got him during a rebuild by selling high on a reliever who will be a FA by the time we expected to contend again. Frazier has the looks of a #2 hitter IMO. I could see him be a mid .800s OPS big leaguer with good D and good SB numbers with WAR's in the 3-4 range. That's a safe projection. If he skyrockets like Judge, he has the secondary tools to have a Trout-lite like WAR in the 6 range (which is less realistic granted).

 

And yes Sheffield is undersized, but he also just turned 21 and is doing damn well in AA while working on location. Yes, he is undersized, but there are plenty of undersized lefties who made amazing careers for themselves

Edited July 3, 2017 by jacksonianmarch

[Fan_since_Boggs]

He's showing the same pattern of adjusting to a new level.

He has done OK. But his development does not resemble that of an elite hitter. It is worth noting that his strong May (in AAA) was followed by a disappointing and pretty mediocre June (in AAA).

 

I'm not sure what you aren't seeing

I'm seeing good production but not the kind of production that I would consider exceptional for a guy who is about to turn 23.

 

a reliever who will be a FA by the time we expected to contend again.

That's the criticism of Cashman. The Yankees are contending this year but they don't have Andrew Miller to help them. Instead, they have a prospect who is about to turn 23 and has not yet produced at a high level offensively. For the sake of comparison, compare Frazier to a prospect like Devers. Devers is 20 years old (21 in Oct) and is already producing a 900+ OPS in AA.

 

You honestly don't know much about prospects, do you?

As if knowing things about prospects is something laudatory. LOL.

[jacksonianmarch]

Devers has no speed and his defense is suspect. But Devers is also a high end offensive prospect in his own right. Devers has a higher offensive ceiling than Frazier for sure. But Frazier will run better, will steal bases, can stick in a tough defensive position and excel there, etc. Devers offers you offense only in a guy who might end up moving off position

[Bellhorn04]

That wasn't a great post, it was a terrible one.

 

Well, keep in mind I'm looking at this from the vantage point of a Sox fan whose team has championship aspirations.

 

I think our chances of beating the Yankees for the division this year are better because you guys don't have Miller, and I think most Sox fans would agree if you put that question to them.

[jacksonianmarch]

If you put it that way!

 

I think you guys are going to beat us for the division regardless. We needed all hands on deck to beat you guys. We have now lost our #'s 2, 4, and 6 hitters and our #2 starter. Add to that we lost two top prospects for the year behind the guys we lost and our depth is being tested in a ridiculous way. We lost our catcher and closer for a month as well as our setup man. Our ST conquering 1b has missed almost the whole season. Miller would help, but right now we are a wounded duck crashing to the ground. By the time we get to a semblance of health, our team will likely be at .500 or below and you guys will have a 10 game lead

[Bellhorn04]

We might have some of our own injury issues before it's all said and done. That's always the great unknown.

[jacksonianmarch]

That's true. Nobody could predict that Holliday would contract a mystery illness leaving him in bed. Or that Hicks would blow out an oblique. It just sucks to see a team that was bludgeoning their way through the AL get stalled due to an immense amount of injuries

[jacksonianmarch]

Another annoying thing Cash is doing is he is keeping Chance Adams in AAA. The guy is absolutely destroying his competition in AAA. But he is not on the 40 man and we rolled with Cessa in CC's stead. If we fall out of this thing, we better be ready to see Chance get some big league starts, as I feel he is the next big thing on the mound for us

[bkzwhitestrican]

Chance will be called up at some point this season. We've seen so far that cash has no issue calling up rookies. I think what's holding him back at this point is the state of the 40 man roster. He'll probably execute a couple of moves by the deadline that will make it easier to call up chance... And who knows from there.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

He can play plus defense and can handle CF.

 

It is my understanding that Frazier will be a LF or RF -- he doesn't profile as a starting CF. Thus, we have to think of Frazier as a corner outfield bat rather than starting CF. Obviously, if he could play CF full time, his value would increase.

[jacksonianmarch]

Betances in full on Daniel Bard mode

[bkzwhitestrican]

Holliday and Castro should be back by the time we return from the All Star Break, maybe even during this series against Milwaukee. That'll be a nice little boost. But ultimately the bullpen, specifically Betances/Chapman, need to get back to pitching like studs for us to get back in the race.

 

The amount of blown saves and close games gone awry thanks to the bullpen over the past 30 day stretch has been pretty abysmal. The bullpen is a strength of the team and once (if) it returns to normal, I think we'll be in good shape.

 

Green/Warren/Betances/Chapman for the 6th-9th is pretty formidable (plus Clippard if he can turn it around). All we'd really need from guys like Pineda and CC are 5 innings of non-horrible pitching.

[jacksonianmarch]

Our pen has been a problem for sure. I hope it's just a blip, but my bigger concern is the fact that our starters have sucked as well and our offense got decimated by injury. Fully fledged, this team can play. We shall see if they can stay healthy in the second half

[Slasher9]

that's the thing about steroids....causes bizarrish injuries like oblique strains and the like.

as for mr adams....there is a $21MM CF block at the MLB level for the next 4 years......maybe he should start taking reps in RF for the impending "oblique strain" that judge is bound to acquire from Miami clinic.....

[jacksonianmarch]

Thanks for your entirely nonsensical post. You should avoid being hypocritical about substance abuse, as you clearly are partaking of the forbidden fruit (crack).

[bkzwhitestrican]

Yes! Steroids!! Clearly the Yankees are juiced. The Yankees and only the Yankees. Definitively.

[Divinity]

Aaron Judge passes DiMaggio for most HR's by a Yankees rookie, woooo

[jacksonianmarch]

Judge is having a transcendant year. Lost in all of this losing and Judge love is the fact that we have re-developed a core and have a rookie/soph class that most teams would kill for. I had limited expectations for this season, and if prior to the season you told me Tanaka would go into the ASB with an ERA over 5 and Betances would have a BB rate near 9, I'd say we were in last rather than clinging to a wild card spot.

 

Judge is becoming the face of the MLB. His stature and his hitting capability this season have been second to none and makes missing out on Mike Trout (he was taken with our pick by the Angels when we signed Tex) less painful.

Gary Sanchez is quietly putting up another solid season. .876OPS and 13 homers after missing a month is great from the C position. We all know he can get hot.

Aaron Hicks finally hit his stride and prior to getting injured, was getting on base at a .398 clip

Starlin Castro was hitting .313 with 12 HR before getting hurt.

Didi Gregorius missed the first month, but he is hitting .300 with 10HR from the SS position.

 

Those are 5 young guys locked up at least through next year who are forming the core of our lineup.

 

In the rotation, Severino is an All-Star who is pitching like a near ace. Jordan Montgomery has been incredibly solid as a rookie, giving a reminder of what a young Andy Pettitte looked like.

 

We developed a core and added two kids to the rotation who will likely be there for a long time. We arrived a year early, and with our veteran woes this year, we are lucky to still be over .500. Pineda sucked the last 6 weeks. Tanaka sucked for 6 weeks. Betances has the yips. Chapman has been hittable. Clippard is near DFA status with as bad as he has been. Our bridge and our stopper exploded. We have the depth in the minors to see who can replace them, but that takes time.

 

Cashman needs to be patient. Adding to this time right now could just be re-arranging the deck chairs on the titanic. Another reliever or another starter won't be enough if we don't get some consistency from our stalwarts. If they continue to blow in July, I say we sell the vets, play the kids and go big into FA this offseason

[jacksonianmarch]

Frazier becoming an instant hero. Atta boy kid!

[Bellhorn04]

Frazier has a good-looking stroke.

[jacksonianmarch]

He has the quickest hands of anyone I've seen in years

[jacksonianmarch]

Betances and Chapman got back on track today. Big big win

[OH FOY]

You got to like Judge's demeanor, nice kid, humble.

[jacksonianmarch]

He seems like a really nice kid. His story is a good one. He's adopted and is a gentle giant. He's actually the second adopted player on the Yankees 40 man after Rob Refsnyder

[Bellhorn04]

Betances and Chapman got back on track today. Big big win

 

It was a good win for you. All made possible by the Milwaukee closer walking 2 guys of course. But that's baseball.

[jacksonianmarch]

Frazier goes deep again. He might stay up when Hicks comes back. May be time to say goodbye to Jacoby

[yankonyankee]

Where's the Yankee mojo on this thread? The regular Yankee posters are apologetic softies. So what if the golden era of the late 90s/early 00's is gone. It's still the fn Yankees in a city that takes sh#$ from no one. The all-star break gave this hobbled version of the best damn franchise in MLB history a much needed rest. They'll be ready to give the Sox all they can handle. Screw Boston. They're as entitled as Yankee fans are. Mirror images of each other. The only difference: they paint themselves as the good guys. Hypocrites.

 

NY will continue to kick ass until the rising oceans sweep this great city away.

 

Go Yankees.