Jose Bautista

[cp176]

Good, New Gloucester is an inch north of Portland.

 

I'm a man; I'm a man; I'm a man!

 

I will say, Limington is more back woods than New Gloucester, and it's southwest of Portland.

 

Maybe you should amend your statement to north of Lewiston-Auburn-- better yet, Augusta-Waterville.

 

Some would argue Bangah north.

 

 

You don't get a vote! Before you get to vote, we have to see your Maine card. would establish that you have been a resident of the Great State of Maine for what say roughly 20 years.

[cp176]

My parents have a sweet spot on Sebago Lake. One time I drove from Portland all the way to tip of Raymond Neck (50 minutes) and never saw one car. Okay it was midnight on a school night, but still, Route 302 is the major East-West highway in Maine. The whole state is a different world.

 

One time- as in this past summer, I was on route 302 and did not see any car with Maine plates. All Mass. Wait - I'ma Mainer. I think I missed something. 302 is the major East- West highway in Maine? Only if you are one of those Portlanders. route 2 might be a little closer. lol all in fun.

 

You are certainly right about one thing - our state is in a different world.

[moonslav59]

You don't get a vote! Before you get to vote, we have to see your Maine card. would establish that you have been a resident of the Great State of Maine for what say roughly 20 years.

 

I lived in Portland from 1971 to 2004, when I moved to Mexico City. In 2007, I moved to Sugar Land, TX.

 

I have visited Maine every summer since moving away, I mean I have a free spot on Sebago lake, so why not?

 

34 years plus 12 summers. My card is so old and crumpled, maybe you can't read it.

[cp176]

I lived in Portland from 1971 to 2004, when I moved to Mexico City. In 2007, I moved to Sugar Land, TX.

 

I have visited Maine every summer since moving away, I mean I have a free spot on Sebago lake, so why not?

 

34 years plus 12 summers. My card is so old and crumpled, maybe you can't read it.

 

No - Your card is fine I'm sure. I might be too old and crumpled to read it.

[Bellhorn04]

Here in Halifax we first got cable TV in the mid-70's, and all the stations were in Bangor. Every Saturday night we were treated to Dick Stacey's Country Jamboree. Dick Stacey was a gas station owner. It was classic stuff.

[S5Dewey]

Here in Halifax we first got cable TV in the mid-70's, and all the stations were in Bangor. Every Saturday night we were treated to Dick Stacey's Country Jamboree. Dick Stacey was a gas station owner. It was classic stuff.

 

"On the wings of a snow white dove".

[cp176]

Here in Halifax we first got cable TV in the mid-70's, and all the stations were in Bangor. Every Saturday night we were treated to Dick Stacey's Country Jamboree. Dick Stacey was a gas station owner. It was classic stuff.

 

I've met a few Canadians down here in florida. I enjoy their company very much. A few of them even can play a little golf. Maybe it's the climate they come from - maybe it's the beer they drink - we just seem to have more in common than many people I have met down here. some are even scottish - a beautiful thing.

[Bellhorn04]

I've met a few Canadians down here in florida. I enjoy their company very much. A few of them even can play a little golf. Maybe it's the climate they come from - maybe it's the beer they drink - we just seem to have more in common than many people I have met down here. some are even scottish - a beautiful thing.

 

I always feel comfortable in Maine. Like I was saying, we're very similar places.

[rkarp1]

what is the thought on what it would take to sign Bautista? would 2/$18 with the 2nd year a club option do it?

 

if this version of the RS are in a "win now" mode, does this great pitching staff have the support of enough offense? I am intrigued with Moreland, but no where ready to cede 500 PA's to him. Hanley seemingly was very healthy last year compared to so many prior seasons. Is anyone ready to say that Benni is 1000% ready to come in with out any set backs? Swihart might be an answer. Young should stay healthy, but his splits still scream manage his PA's.

 

why not bring Bautista in at the right price and let him play 120 games at DH. potential 1B/LF options? This keeps Hanley as your full time 1B with some DH rotation/rest, and Moreland also in that 1B/defensive replacement/DH rotation.

[Kimmi]

I don't think that management would have gone through the trouble of a salary dump on Buchholz if they didn't have a serious desire to get under the cap this season. Maybe they can sign Bautista and stay under the cap, but that will give them almost no wiggle room for any needs that arise throughout the season.

 

Also, signing Bautista will cost us our draft pick.

 

Part of Moreland's appeal is the improved 1B defense that he will provide at that position. Having Hanley DH regularly might also help his numbers offensively.

 

Personally, I think our offense will be fine. They were so good last year that even with the loss of Papi and some regression, they should be one of the top offenses in baseball.

[notin]

I started a post about Bautista a few weeks back and the response was almost universally"he's not a good fit," which I'm not sure exactly what that means. While he may never be the dominant hitter he was prior to 2016, he is certainly an upgrade over Moreland.

 

Financially the Sox could fit him into tje budget by including an insanely low player (not team) option, as player options are automatically assumed when calculating AAV* However it would still require Bautista to accept a short term pillow contract.

 

The loss of a draft pick is a concern, but less of one as it is a late round pick. If the Sox are "all in" to the point of dealing away Moncada, Kopech, Basabe, Shaw, Diaz and Dubon, why would a late first round pick suddenly be a deal breaker?

Edited December 28, 2016 by notin

[Jack Flap]

Sounds like he is in danger of getting Stephen Drew'd at this point. If we could do it without going over the cap, I think Dave would make a move...but I'm not sure if the money is there, even with Buchholz off the books.

[Beantowne]

i don't see the Sox as interested in Batista or they'd have already made a play for him. Before they signed Moreland...Basically...regression in production, moneys he'd command along with the draft compensation, roster construction (Hanley will be the primary DH) all point to them passing on him..

[notin]

Any interest in Bautista will likely come in late January when he is more desperate. While his agent might be proposing the Stephen Drew/Kendrys's Morales route, both Bautista and hos agent have likely seen how badly that has worked out before...

[S5Dewey]

I don't think that management would have gone through the trouble of a salary dump on Buchholz if they didn't have a serious desire to get under the cap this season. Maybe they can sign Bautista and stay under the cap, but that will give them almost no wiggle room for any needs that arise throughout the season.

 

Also, signing Bautista will cost us our draft pick.

Two very excellent points.

 

Am I the only one who remembers the 2nd half Buch had last year and his contribution to winning the AL East? This guy can flat-out pitch when he's right and could be instrumental in a team that's all-in to win in 2017. The Sox FO had two options with Buch - keeping him or trading him. I can see no good reason for trading a player with his ability unless the goal was to get under the LT limit and adding Bautista to the salary would be counter to what they're doing.

 

And given where our minor league system is at the moment one of the last things we should do is to be losing draft picks. While what we get may be down in the list that player would still be better than the one we'd get if we lose a pick to acquire Bautista.

 

Sure, Batts would be nice to have, but when one figures what the future cost could be of signing him this year as it pertains to the LT in 2017 & 2018 he could be darned expensive to have, both in terms of money and in terms of a draft pick to replenish the farm.

[Eddy Ballgame]

i don't see the Sox as interested in Batista or they'd have already made a play for him. Before they signed Moreland...Basically...regression in production, moneys he'd command along with the draft compensation, roster construction (Hanley will be the primary DH) all point to them passing on him..

 

I agree. The luxury tax implications and the draft pick would be enough to pass on Bautista in my opinion, but when you consider that he's coming off of a bad year at 36, he's not really any kind of a "need," and his numbers weren't much better than Moreland's, I don't see why the Sox would go there. Moreland is also a 10x better fit defensively, he's 5 years younger and he's also left handed.

 

I also want Benintendi in the line-up every day, as I think he is going to be a star in this league, sooner rather than later. I wouldn't ever want Bautista in the outfield, either.

 

Moreland also might surprise some people, and if not, they should have the resources to get someone to replace him at the deadline.

[rkarp1]

all good points, but no one is discussing numbers

 

by all accounts the salary cap thresh hold for 2017 is $195m.

the RS per Spotrac sit at $168M (after Bucholz)

perhaps the RS have an internal budget that is not related to the salary cap

however, paying another player upwards of $10m does not put them in salary cap hell, not really even close

if they are "all in" they need another bat imo, with it being "risky" to assume Hanley will not show some regression based on his prior 5-6 year record, Benni might show some growing pains, Young's splits.

and it is not only Ortiz numbers that concern me;

 

I do expect Benni over a full year to progress

I do expect Boegardts to show some increased power numbers

 

I would be surprised if Betts had a BETTER year, and would be thrilled if he remained the same

I would have to say the same regarding JBJ

 

I feel Pedroia had his best season in quite some time, and regression should be expected

I also feel Hanley will show some regression

When available, Young played VERY well. Regression to norm should be expected

 

Who knows what Panda, Leon or Vaz will have to offer offensively

 

If a bat is available for $10m that is an upgrade, I am all for it....so the question put forth, what do you think Bautista signing price will be? is he an upgrade?

[Beantowne]

all good points, but no one is discussing numbers

 

by all accounts the salary cap thresh hold for 2017 is $195m.

the RS per Spotrac sit at $168M (after Bucholz)

perhaps the RS have an internal budget that is not related to the salary cap

however, paying another player upwards of $10m does not put them in salary cap hell, not really even close

if they are "all in" they need another bat imo, with it being "risky" to assume Hanley will not show some regression based on his prior 5-6 year record, Benni might show some growing pains, Young's splits.

and it is not only Ortiz numbers that concern me;

 

I do expect Benni over a full year to progress

I do expect Boegardts to show some increased power numbers

 

I would be surprised if Betts had a BETTER year, and would be thrilled if he remained the same

I would have to say the same regarding JBJ

 

I feel Pedroia had his best season in quite some time, and regression should be expected

I also feel Hanley will show some regression

When available, Young played VERY well. Regression to norm should be expected

 

Who knows what Panda, Leon or Vaz will have to offer offensively

 

If a bat is available for $10m that is an upgrade, I am all for it....so the question put forth, what do you think Bautista signing price will be? is he an upgrade?

 

I'd put him in the 15M/one year ballpark to reestablish his value. What we don't know is will he want to go to a team where he's guaranteed a starting OF spot.

 

Is he an upgrade? Hard to say with conviction. Moreland is a gold glove quality first baseman with a little pop..Hanley likely is the primary DH and the better hitter of the two...So it comes down to Batista over Benintendi in left.

 

That said, I can't see him agreeing to be a platoon player. if his primary goal is to show that last year was not the new norm...I see him ending up with a team who will give him a chance to play the OF (Oakland?).

[S5Dewey]

I'd put him in the 15M/one year ballpark to reestablish his value. What we don't know is will he want to go to a team where he's guaranteed a starting OF spot.

 

Is he an upgrade? Hard to say with conviction. Moreland is a gold glove quality first baseman with a little pop..Hanley likely is the primary DH and the better hitter of the two...So it comes down to Batista over Benintendi in left.

 

That said, I can't see him agreeing to be a platoon player. if his primary goal is to show that last year was not the new norm...I see him ending up with a team who will give him a chance to play the OF (Oakland?).

 

Oakland works for me. Getting Batts AND EE out of the AL East can only help the Sox.

[rkarp1]

I'd put him in the 15M/one year ballpark to reestablish his value. What we don't know is will he want to go to a team where he's guaranteed a starting OF spot.

 

Is he an upgrade? Hard to say with conviction. Moreland is a gold glove quality first baseman with a little pop..Hanley likely is the primary DH and the better hitter of the two...So it comes down to Batista over Benintendi in left.

 

That said, I can't see him agreeing to be a platoon player. if his primary goal is to show that last year was not the new norm...I see him ending up with a team who will give him a chance to play the OF (Oakland?).

 

 

perhaps I am under estimating Moreland and over estimating Bautista.

Moreland was able to post only a .7 WAR last season in spite of some reasonable fielding numbers. Bautista only able to produce a 1 war, but coming off 5.1 and 6.1 seasons.

[Eddy Ballgame]

I'd put him in the 15M/one year ballpark to reestablish his value. What we don't know is will he want to go to a team where he's guaranteed a starting OF spot.

 

Is he an upgrade? Hard to say with conviction. Moreland is a gold glove quality first baseman with a little pop..Hanley likely is the primary DH and the better hitter of the two...So it comes down to Batista over Benintendi in left.

 

That said, I can't see him agreeing to be a platoon player. if his primary goal is to show that last year was not the new norm...I see him ending up with a team who will give him a chance to play the OF (Oakland?).

 

If the Sox were ever going to consider platooning Benintendi at this point (never happen), I would think that they would go with Chris Young, who's a better fielder than Bautista and hits lefties better than Bautista.

[bosoxmal]

Bautista would be worth about 1/3 of what he's asking. He and JBJ wold be competing for the strike out king of the year.

[bosoxmal]

If the Sox were ever going to consider platooning Benintendi at this point (never happen), I would think that they would go with Chris Young, who's a better fielder than Bautista and hits lefties better than Bautista.

Swihart has more chance of being our LF than Young does.

[notin]

perhaps I am under estimating Moreland and over estimating Bautista.

Moreland was able to post only a .7 WAR last season in spite of some reasonable fielding numbers. Bautista only able to produce a 1 war, but coming off 5.1 and 6.1 seasons.

 

Based on last season, it's practically a wash. Moreland was worth 12 DRS more than Hanley, who would shift to 1b. And Bautista was worth 13 Runs Created more than Moreland.

 

However on average Bautista is typically worth about 42 RC over what Moreland was worth last season. While not likely Bautista tops him by so much agsin, it does come down to how much faith Dombrowski would have in Bautista bouncing back.

 

If history is any indication, Dombrowski probably believes in Bautista. He does tend to ignore age for superstar players. ...

[Eddy Ballgame]

Swihart has more chance of being our LF than Young does.

 

I think you missed the point there, but if Benintendi gets injured, they'll play Young in left and go get a left handed hitting outfielder outside of the organization before they put Swihart back out there at this point.

[Bellhorn04]

all good points, but no one is discussing numbers

 

by all accounts the salary cap thresh hold for 2017 is $195m.

the RS per Spotrac sit at $168M (after Bucholz)

perhaps the RS have an internal budget that is not related to the salary cap

however, paying another player upwards of $10m does not put them in salary cap hell, not really even close

 

$168M isn't the correct number for luxury tax purposes. For tax purposes we are something like $8 million under the threshold now per Alex Speier's projections.

[moonslav59]

all good points, but no one is discussing numbers

 

by all accounts the salary cap thresh hold for 2017 is $195m.

the RS per Spotrac sit at $168M (after Bucholz)

perhaps the RS have an internal budget that is not related to the salary cap

however, paying another player upwards of $10m does not put them in salary cap hell, not really even close

if they are "all in" they need another bat imo, with it being "risky" to assume Hanley will not show some regression based on his prior 5-6 year record, Benni might show some growing pains, Young's splits.

and it is not only Ortiz numbers that concern me;

 

I do expect Benni over a full year to progress

I do expect Boegardts to show some increased power numbers

 

I would be surprised if Betts had a BETTER year, and would be thrilled if he remained the same

I would have to say the same regarding JBJ

 

I feel Pedroia had his best season in quite some time, and regression should be expected

I also feel Hanley will show some regression

When available, Young played VERY well. Regression to norm should be expected

 

Who knows what Panda, Leon or Vaz will have to offer offensively

 

If a bat is available for $10m that is an upgrade, I am all for it....so the question put forth, what do you think Bautista signing price will be? is he an upgrade?

 

From what I hear, we are about $14M under the limit, but every time we call up a minor leaguer and pay him a MLB salary, we add a little. That means we really might have about $9-11M of flex space.

 

Your numbers leave out the player benefits payment of about $13M that counts against the luxury tax budget. Plus, payroll is different from average salary cost of each player.

[jacksonianmarch]

I think Joey Bats makes more sense than EE. One year pillow contract and you lose one of the lowest draft picks you've had in years. If he does well, you get huge performance for a year and can QO him next year to recoup the lost pick. If he sucks, it's just one year. Also, I'd have him at DH exclusively.

[moonslav59]

I think Joey Bats makes more sense than EE. One year pillow contract and you lose one of the lowest draft picks you've had in years. If he does well, you get huge performance for a year and can QO him next year to recoup the lost pick. If he sucks, it's just one year. Also, I'd have him at DH exclusively.

 

It's my understanding that no player can be given a QO twice.

 

I wouldn't sign him to even $9M/1

[jacksonianmarch]

That's for the new CBA. Old rules exist this year. New CBA works for next year.