MLB looking into San Diego deals

[jacksonianmarch]

That's actually not true. The Padres and Marlins agreed to a restructured deal sending Rea back to SD and Castillo back to Miami. The rest of the deal including Cashner remained in place. MLB had nothing to do with that

[moonslav59]

I have my doubts that any PR disaster would stick on the Sox FO if they compalined. "We wuz tricked" is pretty compelling if they were handed damaged goods for a high value asset. If the Sox aren't complaining, it's probably because they're still comfortable with the return they got.

 

...or the medical reports they received were fairly accurate, but maybe not totally complete.

 

They may have known an injury issue or risk was there, but maybe not quite to the extent they could have known. Therefore, the risk may have been just incrementally higher and no "big deal".

[moonslav59]

In Pomeranz i think the Sox got what they were looking for. A young middle of the rotation starter with the potential to get better. Some here are acting as though we were getting an ace via this deal. We weren't and didn't. I think that he has performed pretty much as advertised. A solid deal for the Red Sox. Obviously though he isn't what some want him to be.

 

I don't disagree, but Pomeranz did have "ace" like stats while with the Padres before the deal. He's looked more like Price, errrrr I mean, Buchholz since coming to the Sox.

[moonslav59]

That's actually not true. The Padres and Marlins agreed to a restructured deal sending Rea back to SD and Castillo back to Miami. The rest of the deal including Cashner remained in place. MLB had nothing to do with that

 

Makes you wonder about the Padres knowing they were in the wrong to agree to a change. If they had squeaky clean meds, they would have refused to the shuffle.

[mvp 78]

Pads franchise is a trainwreck right now.

[cp176]

I don't disagree, but Pomeranz did have "ace" like stats while with the Padres before the deal. He's looked more like Price, errrrr I mean, Buchholz since coming to the Sox.

 

Ah well - that is the problem. Ace like stats. Over how many years of pitching has he had ace like stats? Not once did I read or hear from anyone connected with the team who knows anything about anything say that we were getting a pitcher who could become an ace because he had had a good run this year for a bad team. A young pitcher with the potential to be decent. It has been a good deal for the Red Sox and may prove to be a better deal going forward. No one likes to trade away any kind of talent particularly pitching talent. The fact remains that Pomeranz is currently a young middle of the rotation pitcher who has proven that he belongs in the big leagues. Espinoza , God bless him, may get to the big leagues in 3 to 5 years maybe.

[Jack Flap]

Have to think we'd want some sort of restitution if whatever the issue was with Pom was serious, so hopefully it's not.

 

Every hit, walk, or run he allows the rest of his Red Sox career will be Preller's fault, though...it is known.

[moonslav59]

Ah well - that is the problem. Ace like stats. Over how many years of pitching has he had ace like stats? Not once did I read or hear from anyone connected with the team who knows anything about anything say that we were getting a pitcher who could become an ace because he had had a good run this year for a bad team. A young pitcher with the potential to be decent. It has been a good deal for the Red Sox and may prove to be a better deal going forward. No one likes to trade away any kind of talent particularly pitching talent. The fact remains that Pomeranz is currently a young middle of the rotation pitcher who has proven that he belongs in the big leagues. Espinoza , God bless him, may get to the big leagues in 3 to 5 years maybe.

 

I was totally against this trade- more out of my high expectation for Espinoza than out of any perception of what Pomeranz was going to do for us.

 

I'm never a fan of small sample sizes, and I brought up that fact at the time of the trade. Some posters claimed he "learned a new pitch, so he's not the same pitcher of years past". I never bought that spiel either.

 

I will say that I don't anybody expected him to look this bad regardless of what we viewed him as coming here, but then again, his time here has been a tiny sample size.

[cp176]

I was totally against this trade- more out of my high expectation for Espinoza than out of any perception of what Pomeranz was going to do for us.

 

I'm never a fan of small sample sizes, and I brought up that fact at the time of the trade. Some posters claimed he "learned a new pitch, so he's not the same pitcher of years past". I never bought that spiel either.

 

I will say that I don't anybody expected him to look this bad regardless of what we viewed him as coming here, but then again, his time here has been a tiny sample size.

 

I just went over the "stats" that you posted with respect to Boston's WAR. It is not something that I do because I am not particularly interested in a statistical deluge. But - imagine what I saw when I looked at your compilation of Pomeranz's stats. People can decide what they personally feel about Pomeranz's start thus far with Boston. There are what maybe 3 people posting here who have been overly critical of what he has done so far. They just need to temper their expectations. We signed a middle of the rotation pitcher and that is what we got. Another solid deal for DD.

[d-money]

I been dissapointed with pomeranz's control. He's good for 5 or 6 innings.

[cp176]

I been dissapointed with pomeranz's control. He's good for 5 or 6 innings.

 

check out Moons stats on the kid. You won't be so disappointed. 6 innings is good middle of the rotation kind of stuff these days. Maybe you wanted more from him than the Red Sox knew that they were going to get.

[d-money]

check out Moons stats on the kid. You won't be so disappointed. 6 innings is good middle of the rotation kind of stuff these days. Maybe you wanted more from him than the Red Sox knew that they were going to get.

 

I think he could be a top of the rotation type of guy. He has a plus curveball. This guy was a top 5 pick after going to college. I think he could pitch better and go deep into games despite the fact that he has never thrown so many innings.

[moonslav59]

I just went over the "stats" that you posted with respect to Boston's WAR. It is not something that I do because I am not particularly interested in a statistical deluge. But - imagine what I saw when I looked at your compilation of Pomeranz's stats. People can decide what they personally feel about Pomeranz's start thus far with Boston. There are what maybe 3 people posting here who have been overly critical of what he has done so far. They just need to temper their expectations. We signed a middle of the rotation pitcher and that is what we got. Another solid deal for DD.

 

I'm not a huge fan of WAR, especially for pitching, but my compilation of stats beyond WAR plus WAR was meant to show that our ranking in pitching has been greatly affectedb y our putrid 5th starter numbers and bullpen issues during the injuries to Kimbrel, Smith, Uehara and Tazawa.

 

With Kimbrel and Taz back, and Pomeranz and ERod fighting over the 4/5 slot, maybe our numbers and success will improve.

 

If we reach the playoffs, I like how our top 3-4 SP'ers and 2-3 RP'ers compare to other AL teams.

[cp176]

Your comments positive as they were about Pomeranz did not slip by me.

[cp176]

I think he could be a top of the rotation type of guy. He has a plus curveball. This guy was a top 5 pick after going to college. I think he could pitch better and go deep into games despite the fact that he has never thrown so many innings.

 

I absolutely agree with you. I guess my point was and is that he has done the job expected of him as a mid rotation pitcher. I always hope for better but in all reality if anybody thought that we were going to pick up someone better than him for basically Espinoza they live in a world of which I am not familiar.

[moonslav59]

I absolutely agree with you. I guess my point was and is that he has done the job expected of him as a mid rotation pitcher. I always hope for better but in all reality if anybody thought that we were going to pick up someone better than him for basically Espinoza they live in a world of which I am not familiar.

 

We traded away Margot, Guerra and more for a high-priced closer.

 

We traded Espinoza for a possible "flash-in-the-pan" number 3/4 starter. (BTW, Pomeranz has not done as expected.)

 

We could have possibly combined both offers and got a legitimate SP'er. Maybe we might have had to add Devers or Swihart, but at least we'd have our major hole fixed.

Edited August 7, 2016 by moonslav59

[User Name]

Or maybe this is all conjecture and all of them combined don't net us a legitimate #1 because of lack of availability or lack of interest by another team in the package offered. Other teams are not player stockpiles for the Red Sox. They don't have to trade us anyone unless they do decide.

[moonslav59]

Or maybe this is all conjecture and all of them combined don't net us a legitimate #1 because of lack of availability or lack of interest by another team in the package offered. Other teams are not player stockpiles for the Red Sox. They don't have to trade us anyone unless they do decide.

 

Duly noted.

 

That's why I used the words "maybe" and "might have..."

[cp176]

We traded away Margot, Guerra and more for a high-priced closer.

 

We traded Espinoza for a possible "flash-in-the-pan" number 3/4 starter. (BTW, Pomeranz has not done as expected.)

 

We could have possibly combined both offers and got a legitimate SP'er. Maybe we might have had to add Devers or Swihart, but at least we'd have our major hole fixed.

 

Hindsight really is great stuff. In a previous post you have indicated that Pomeranz was performing at a level that was equal to a number 2 starter. I think that he is a solid 3/4. I am ok with this trade. I'm pretty sure that everyone would have been on board for a stronger package for a prominent #1 if one had been available. It is fun to speculate isn't it but the more I read your posts (which I do for the most part) the more I appreciate the job our general manager is doing. It is a tough job.

[Kimmi]

That's actually not true. The Padres and Marlins agreed to a restructured deal sending Rea back to SD and Castillo back to Miami. The rest of the deal including Cashner remained in place. MLB had nothing to do with that

 

Well, I don't know whether MLB had anything to do with it or not.

 

But, Rea was the pitcher of concern. When it came out that he had some sort of medical concern that was not disclosed to the Marlins, that part of the deal was rescinded. Cashner stayed in place because he was not a concern.

[Kimmi]

I am okay with the Pomeranz trade because, IMO, it needed to be done. We desperately needed starting pitching help.

 

There is really no explanation as to why Pomeranz has pitched to a 6+ ERA with us. No, he likely wasn't going to be a top of the rotation starter, but he should be better than what we've seen. My guess is an adjustment period.

[cp176]

I am okay with the Pomeranz trade because, IMO, it needed to be done. We desperately needed starting pitching help.

 

There is really no explanation as to why Pomeranz has pitched to a 6+ ERA with us. No, he likely wasn't going to be a top of the rotation starter, but he should be better than what we've seen. My guess is an adjustment period.

 

I like your opinion about him for what it is worth. Feeling that he has been awful and that it was a bad trade is just as extreme as saying that he has been excellent and that it was a great trade. He has had a couple of bad starts but I think that his future value is yet to be determined. I see him as a mid rotation arm and if he proves better than that, I will be thrilled. I won't be happy if he gives us less. Normally athletes are never as bad as they look when they are playing poorly nor are they always as good as they look when they are on top of their game. His first start for us was very bad.

[Kimmi]

I like your opinion about him for what it is worth. Feeling that he has been awful and that it was a bad trade is just as extreme as saying that he has been excellent and that it was a great trade. He has had a couple of bad starts but I think that his future value is yet to be determined. I see him as a mid rotation arm and if he proves better than that, I will be thrilled. I won't be happy if he gives us less. Normally athletes are never as bad as they look when they are playing poorly nor are they always as good as they look when they are on top of their game. His first start for us was very bad.

 

I can't imagine that going from the obscurity of a team like the Padres to being thrust into the pressure cooker of a city like Boston is an easy adjustment. Also, it takes some time for the pitcher and catcher to get comfortable with each other. Personally, I think he will end up being a solid pitcher for us.

[moonslav59]

Hindsight really is great stuff. In a previous post you have indicated that Pomeranz was performing at a level that was equal to a number 2 starter. I think that he is a solid 3/4. I am ok with this trade. I'm pretty sure that everyone would have been on board for a stronger package for a prominent #1 if one had been available. It is fun to speculate isn't it but the more I read your posts (which I do for the most part) the more I appreciate the job our general manager is doing. It is a tough job.

 

It certainly is not an easy job.

 

While Pomeranz did have 2016 NL num bers tha compared favorably to other 1/2 slot starters, I never meant to imply I viewed him as a 1/2 slot starter.

 

I mentioned the small sample size and my doubts about how he would perform in the AL.

 

I was against the trade, but hoped we had found a solid 3/4 SP'er at a low cost that may have freed up enough budget space next year to sign Encarnacion and 2 solid RP'ers. The trade of Espi, however, damaged our chances at putting together a large enough package to acquire a reliabel ace type SP'er this winter, or that our farm would have to be nearly totally decimated to acquire one after already losing so much by getting Pom & Kimbrell.

 

[moonslav59]

He has had a couple of bad starts but I think that his future value is yet to be determined.

 

While still a tiny sample size, I wouldn't call his last start a good one. He had 6 BBs and 4 hits allowed in 6 IP. Even though only 2 runs were allowed, I'd say it was a "bad start" giving him 3 of 4 starts as "bad" not 2.

 

His one "good start" was in our 4-2 loss to Detroit where he went 6 giving up 2 ERs but only 4 hits and 2BBs.

[moonslav59]

I can't imagine that going from the obscurity of a team like the Padres to being thrust into the pressure cooker of a city like Boston is an easy adjustment. Also, it takes some time for the pitcher and catcher to get comfortable with each other. Personally, I think he will end up being a solid pitcher for us.

 

Not that Colorado or Oakland have big spotlights either, but Pomeranz has had experience moving around. Boston is his 4th team while in the Bigs after starting in the minors with a 5th team (CLE).

[Kimmi]

Not that Colorado or Oakland have big spotlights either, but Pomeranz has had experience moving around. Boston is his 4th team while in the Bigs after starting in the minors with a 5th team (CLE).

 

If I'm not mistaken though, he has not changed teams midseason before.

[moonslav59]

If I'm not mistaken though, he has not changed teams midseason before.

 

He was part of the August trade Cleveland made for Jimenez back in 2011.

 

However, he was in the minors when traded, but did play for Colorado in 2011.

 

[Jack Flap]

Pomeranz since the trade: 4 GS, 20.1 IP, 6.20 ERA, 1.67 WHIP, 6.03 FIP, 5.31 BB/9... so no, he has not been good or even acceptable by any stretch of the imagination. At least he's striking people out, because otherwise that matches up pretty well with any four-start Buchholz sample you could find from this year.

 

Obviously no one should be judged on a four-game sample, but at the same time, a big part of the rationale for this trade was that he was going to help us win this year, so hopefully he doesn't wait too long to start showing the sort of results the team expected.

[greenwell]

He has had a couple of bad starts but I think that his future value is yet to be determined.

 

While still a tiny sample size, I wouldn't call his last start a good one. He had 6 BBs and 4 hits allowed in 6 IP. Even though only 2 runs were allowed, I'd say it was a "bad start" giving him 3 of 4 starts as "bad" not 2.

 

His one "good start" was in our 4-2 loss to Detroit where he went 6 giving up 2 ERs but only 4 hits and 2BBs.

 

Seeing as 1 of the BBs was intentional and 2 of the hits were bunts and it was technically a "quality start" I don't see it as a bad start.