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[Slasher9]

Hopefully he doesnt give up 3 ER in 6 IP. apparently that is a unacceptable start.

[cp176]

Hopefully he doesnt give up 3 ER in 6 IP. apparently that is a unacceptable start.

 

Maybe if he could just spread it out a little bit! Fast forward to inning number 2 possibly.

[cp176]

Bastard Number 1, I like it.

 

ty - old guy humor!

[User Name]

Hopefully he doesnt give up 3 ER in 6 IP. apparently that is a unacceptable start.

 

Well it would be pretty nice if he didn't give up a bunch of homers (or one with 2+ men on base) and walked the ballpark.

[Slasher9]

my bad. hopefully he can pitch a perfect game everytime out.

[User Name]

Maybe just not suck and sport a 6+ ERA? You know, you don't have to be completely insufferable to make your point. It's not like Buchholz complaints are coming when he's pitching well. He has been terrible.

[Slasher9]

i beg to differ. Complaints came after his last start. which was considered a Quality Start by MLB.

6IP / 3 ER. Hence my post #61 of this thread.

btw...his ERA is under 6.

[User Name]

Bro, we have been complaining about Buchholz here since before the season began.

[Dojji]

UN is right. Slasher, Buchholz has been horrible all year, and that one start is just barely a "quality" start, and so fundamentally unsound that it doesn't really count as a bright spot (so many walks and hits allowed that he was damn lucky he only gave up 3 ER)

 

You compare that with Kelly's start, which by any objective standard was a bright point and a good sign of things to come, and there just is no comparison. Buchholz might have pulled out of the steep nosedive he was in, but that doesn't by any means indicate that he is pitching anywhere near well.

[Slasher9]

Bro, we have been complaining about Buchholz here since before the season began.

 

Bro i was just responding to this statement by you a couple posts ago:

It's not like Buchholz complaints are coming when he's pitching well.

 

btw - you are on record stating that you agreed with picking up his option but you wanted to trade him. then you are on record saying the Mariners didnt want him in the trade they took Miley. so who are you suggesting we should have traded Clay to before the season began after picking up his option?

[Dojji]

To be technical, he said it made sense to pick up the option, not that he agreed with doing so. Those two statements don't quite mean the same thing.

[Slasher9]

UN is right. Slasher, Buchholz has been horrible all year, and that one start is just barely a "quality" start, and so fundamentally unsound that it doesn't really count as a bright spot (so many walks and hits allowed that he was damn lucky he only gave up 3 ER)

 

You compare that with Kelly's start, which by any objective standard was a bright point and a good sign of things to come, and there just is no comparison. Buchholz might have pulled out of the steep nosedive he was in, but that doesn't by any means indicate that he is pitching anywhere near well.

 

of course he's right.

but then again "all year".

i guess we should ignore these other 2 starts then?

6.2 IP / 0 ER

7 IP / 2 ER

 

although he probably walked a couple people in those starts and BABIP.

[User Name]

Teams with dire pitching needs before the season:

 

Orioles (Yes, intra-division, I know)

Rockies (always)

Astros

Angels

Oakland (eating a portion of his salry)

Pittsburgh

[Slasher9]

To be technical, he said it made sense to pick up the option, not that he agreed with doing so. Those two statements don't quite mean the same thing.

 

im fine with getting technical. there was a thread where he and sk (pretty sure it was sk) were saying the same thing. they wanted to pickup the option and trade Clay.

[User Name]

of course he's right.

but then again "all year".

i guess we should ignore these other 2 starts then?

6.2 IP / 0 ER

7 IP / 2 ER

 

although he probably walked a couple people in those starts and BABIP.

 

Or let's ignore these starts instead:

 

4.0/5 ER

5.0/5 ER

5.2/6 ER

6.1/5 ER

5.0/4 ER

6.0/5 ER

 

I mean, your argument is so illogical it's making Plato's ghost cry.

[Slasher9]

Teams with dire pitching needs before the season:

 

Orioles (Yes, intra-division, I know)

Rockies (always)

Astros

Angels

Oakland (eating a portion of his salry)

Pittsburgh

 

good list. did it matter who we got back?

or who replaced his spot in this years rotation?

i would have been fine getting prospects (even low level) for him right up until E-Rod got injured in Spring Training. at that second Clay became much more valuable to us. especially as evidenced by a guy named Sean OSullivan having to make a start or two. and Owens actually walking more people than clay.....

Edited May 26, 2016 by Slasher9

[Slasher9]

Or let's ignore these starts instead:

 

4.0/5 ER

5.0/5 ER

5.2/6 ER

6.1/5 ER

5.0/4 ER

6.0/5 ER

 

I mean, your argument is so illogical it's making Plato's ghost cry.

 

show me where i'm on record saying he hasnt had bad starts? or that his season numbers are good? (or even acceptable)? but i dont put my head in the sand when he has a good start.

[User Name]

good list. did it matter who we got back?

or who replaced his spot in this years rotation?

i would have been fine getting prospects (even low level) for him right up until E-Rod got injured in Spring Training. at that second Clay became much more valuable to us. especially as evidenced by a game named Sean OSullivan having to make a start or two. and Owens actually walking more people than clay.....

 

I would've traded Clay for a Smith type and kept Miley, who provides unspectacular, but high innings amounts. I've been preaching since the offseason that having two rotation spots inhabited by naturally frail guys was a recipe for disaster. Pittsburgh and the Orioles actually made great trading partners thanks to their deep stable of relief pitchers.

[User Name]

show me where i'm on record saying he hasnt had bad starts? or that his season numbers are good? (or even acceptable)? but i dont put my head in the sand when he has a good start.

 

The statement was "he's been terrible all year". But you're somehow trying to counteract that by saying "Well, he's had two good starts", which doesn't diminish the fact that he's been terrible. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

[Slasher9]

Or let's ignore these starts instead:

 

4.0/5 ER

5.0/5 ER

5.2/6 ER

6.1/5 ER

5.0/4 ER

6.0/5 ER

 

I mean, your argument is so illogical it's making Plato's ghost cry.

 

btw - right now you are arguing with me because i pointed out that stating "Buchholz has been horrible all year" is an inaccurate statement. is that illogical?

[Slasher9]

I would've traded Clay for a Smith type and kept Miley, who provides unspectacular, but high innings amounts. I've been preaching since the offseason that having two rotation spots inhabited by naturally frail guys was a recipe for disaster. Pittsburgh and the Orioles actually made great trading partners thanks to their deep stable of relief pitchers.

 

so you think Relief Pitching is/was a weakness for us after the moves DD made this offseason?

[Slasher9]

well...like i said. hopefully he can pitch a perfect game everytime out......

[User Name]

so you think Relief Pitching is/was a weakness for us after the moves DD made this offseason?

 

Pitching depth in general. Koji's 41, Tazawa has been badly overworked for years.

[User Name]

btw - right now you are arguing with me because i pointed out that stating "Buchholz has been horrible all year" is an inaccurate statement. is that illogical?

 

Yes, because factually, Buchholz has been terrible all year.

[Dojji]

I would've traded Clay for a Smith type and kept Miley, who provides unspectacular, but high innings amounts. I've been preaching since the offseason that having two rotation spots inhabited by naturally frail guys was a recipe for disaster. Pittsburgh and the Orioles actually made great trading partners thanks to their deep stable of relief pitchers.

 

you'd be lucky to trade clay in a deal that was similar to the Melancon trade -- bundled with some middling minor league talent to get a couple guys with a bit of immediate upside. Fortunately for us, one of those guys was Brock Holt. so if you can, target a bit player with some upside, and make the move. I don't think you can get a deal right now (or in the preseason, since Clay hadn't been great in 2015 either) that would get you more back than that.

 

It's not like other teams don't know about his dependability issues. A team's not going to trade a big asset for a guy they can't count on. Any team that traded for Buchholz would trade for him because they thought they could fix him. That changes the discussion of exactly what we should expect to get back.

Edited May 26, 2016 by Dojji

[Spudboy]

Bastard Number 1, I like it.

 

So Kelly is Bastard Number 2?

 

Lol.

[Slasher9]

how about this instead?

[Bellhorn04]

how about this instead?

[ATTACH=CONFIG]353[/ATTACH]

 

That's the idea, except it's Bastards instead of Things.

[mvp 78]

Yes, because factually, Buchholz has been terrible all year.

 

And factually, his option should not have been picked up because it was reasonable to expect these results...

[Dojji]

... and not picking up that option would have allowed us to keep Rich Hill.