Christian Vazquez

[southpaw777]

The kid has already proved he has elite defense. Most ive talked to think hes an automatic out and wanted Swihart here for his bat. I am a big fan of an elite defensive catcher. Moreso than any other position on the field, i will sacrifice offense for that elite D behind the plate.

With that said, Christian Vazquez WILL hit IMO, and will hit better than a lot of fans think. Will he do it right away? I believe he has already to a certain extent since most thought 220 would be about it...I believe he could be a 280+ hitter in MLB. Line drive gap to gap power. May run into 5-10 hr in a good year... Around a 700 OPS just because the SLG wont be really high.

Since being told in AA to start concentrating on his offense more, Vaz has shown a solid approach at the plate. His K rate went down and his bb rate went up. He was starting to make more solid contact and seeing more pitches. When being promoted to another level in the minors his BA was always around 275-280.

IMHO The Sox made the right choice when Vaz proved to be healthy. I know some were gushing over swihart, but I didnt like what I saw behind the plate at this point from him. He will certainly improve, but Im betting he will be involved in a trade this summer or winter for another starter...

Vazquez is the man here for the next decade...and the skeptics, IMO, will see over the next few years just how good of an all around ballplayer Vaz is going to be...

[Slasher9]

if he hits .280 and 10+ HR's a season he will go down as one of the greatest C of all time IMO......

he is young enough so he obviously has not peaked offensively yet. those numbers are within reach. Last year i was definitely on the "swihart is our man going forward" bus but it was easy to dismiss Vaz while he was recovering from TJ.....put me in as a "believer" now. Swihart is gone in july.......

[mvp 78]

Even if he hits to his current career numbers 240/310/370, he's worth keeping in the lineup. The only concern would be if he dips to lower than 220/280/350. The rest of the lineup can carry his meager bat due to his outstanding glove.

 

I like Swihart, but it looked like he didn't have the confidence he needed behind the plate. I hope he figures it out, but it's Vazquez's position to lose now.

[greenwell]

Even if he hits to his current career numbers 240/310/370, he's worth keeping in the lineup. The only concern would be if he dips to lower than 220/280/350. The rest of the lineup can carry his meager bat due to his outstanding glove.

 

I like Swihart, but it looked like he didn't have the confidence he needed behind the plate. I hope he figures it out, but it's Vazquez's position to lose now.

 

Agreed. If he can keep the OPS above .650 I'm happy.

[FredLynn]

The issue isn't with keeping Vasquez in the lineup, its why the second catcher is Hannigan while Swihart languishes in Pawtucket. Its time to see if Swihart has what it takes to be a ML catcher. Right now Vas is playing about 60% of the games; Swihart should be playing the other 40%, at least. Management is screwing around with putting him in the outfield. This can only reduce his value as a trade chip as he can't hit or field that position well enough to make it there. There was a long article a while ago in the Globe saying the same thing: dump Hannigan (and I love the guy) and give Swihart a chance.

[Dojji]

Hanigan is an excellent backup catcher and a perfect fit to pair with a young up-and-comer like Vazquez. There is no reason to throw him away just to rush Swihart back to the majors. Swihart will get tons of chances after this year. There is no need to be overaggressive with promoting Swihart.

 

people forget the only reason he was ever in the majors was as an injury replacement. There's simply no need for him right now. The man needs at least 2 years of full time reps in order to get his catching skills down and there is NWIH he wuill get that in Boston. He needs to be in the minors right now.

Edited May 19, 2016 by Dojji

[Jack Flap]

The issue isn't with keeping Vasquez in the lineup, its why the second catcher is Hannigan while Swihart languishes in Pawtucket. Its time to see if Swihart has what it takes to be a ML catcher. Right now Vas is playing about 60% of the games; Swihart should be playing the other 40%, at least. Management is screwing around with putting him in the outfield. This can only reduce his value as a trade chip as he can't hit or field that position well enough to make it there. There was a long article a while ago in the Globe saying the same thing: dump Hannigan (and I love the guy) and give Swihart a chance.

 

I'd rather see Swihart playing every day in Pawtucket than being the backup catcher in Boston. Agree on the move to left field, though, as I'm not sure his bat is or will be good enough to make a positional move worth it and I'd rather see him focusing on becoming a top-flight catcher.

 

I'm thinking he goes in a trade for a pitcher this summer regardless, though.

[Spudboy]

Hanigan is an excellent backup catcher and a perfect fit to pair with a young up-and-comer like Vazquez. There is no reason to throw him away just to rush Swihart back to the majors. Swihart will get tons of chances after this year. There is no need to be overaggressive with promoting Swihart.

 

people forget the only reason he was ever in the majors was as an injury replacement. There's simply no need for him right now. The man needs at least 2 years of full time reps in order to get his catching skills down and there is NWIH he wuill get that in Boston. He needs to be in the minors right now.

 

How did you come up with "at least 2 years of full time reps"?

 

Is it possible that he could make sufficient strides this year alone?

[mvp 78]

How did you come up with "at least 2 years of full time reps"?

 

Is it possible that he could make sufficient strides this year alone?

 

One year? That seems to be a pretty liberal time frame for seeing a substantial defensive improvement out of him.

[Spudboy]

One year? That seems to be a pretty liberal time frame for seeing a substantial defensive improvement out of him.

 

I think so.

 

It's not like he has not put a bunch of time and "reps" into the process to date.

[Maxbialystock]

I have assumed Swihart needed to switch to the outfield, but here is the scouting report on him--

 

Physical Description: Athletic build, lean muscle, solid core. Has filed out considerably since signing, especially in his lower half, but still has some room for added bulk without losing athleticism.

 

Hit: Switch hitter with fluid, line-drive stroke from both sides. Plus bat speed and bat control through the zone with loud, consistent contact. Uses whole field. Solid pitch recognition, hand-eye coordination, and understanding of the strike zone. Future plus hit tool (.275-.285 average) with average-to-above-average on-base percentage. Battles. Doesn’t use batting gloves.

 

Power: Strong for his size. More to come as he physically matures. More present power from the right side. Squares balls up with consistency. Doesn’t sell out for power. However, plus bat speed, raw strength and hand-eye coordination to square balls up consistently will translate to future average power potential (15-20 home runs).

 

Arm: Plus-to-better arm strength. Accurate thrower. Gets out of his crouch easily. Consistently throws out runners at a high percentage.

 

Field: Consistent sub 2.0 pop times, typically between 1.8-1.9. Athletic behind the plate with quick feet and lateral movements. Frames well, and athleticism provides mobility for excellent blocking skills on balls in the dirt. Future plus defense with plus athleticism. Began getting reps in left field after being optioned back to Pawtucket in April 2016.

 

Run: Average runner, but above-average for catcher. Can go first to third and score from second. Alert on the basepaths with good instincts.

 

Career Notes: Committed to the University of Texas prior to signing. Primarily played shortstop and outfield in high school. Played for Team USA 18-and-Under National Team in 2010. Also played basketball in high school.

 

Summation: Future first-division regular and solid contributor across the board. Potential above-average hit tool and average power potential at a premium defensive position. Athleticism behind the plate immediately stands out. Natural instincts. Confident actions. Elite makeup and strong work ethic. Arguably the best catching prospect in the game right now.

[illinoisredsox]

The issue isn't with keeping Vasquez in the lineup, its why the second catcher is Hannigan while Swihart languishes in Pawtucket. Its time to see if Swihart has what it takes to be a ML catcher. Right now Vas is playing about 60% of the games; Swihart should be playing the other 40%, at least. Management is screwing around with putting him in the outfield. This can only reduce his value as a trade chip as he can't hit or field that position well enough to make it there. There was a long article a while ago in the Globe saying the same thing: dump Hannigan (and I love the guy) and give Swihart a chance.

 

For Swihart to improve behind the plate, he needs to be playing 60-75% of the games, which of course with Vazquez, he isn't going to. Defensively, Swihart has a lot to improve on regarding containing balls in the dirt. I don't get the impression pitchers are especially trusting of him when it comes to throwing a low slider or splitter.

 

Remember what Hanigan's role is on this team. The 40% he's playing is catching Wright (which physically has to be like catching 2 games) and babysitting the Kelly/Owens/O'Sullivan slot in the rotation. Not sure that's the slots you want throw Swihart into.

 

As for the Globe article, I made the mistake of clicking on that one. If I remember correctly, it was an Eric Wilbur piece. When it comes to that "journalist", if you take what he says and do the opposite, you'll come out ahead almost every time.

[Dojji]

How did you come up with "at least 2 years of full time reps"?

 

Is it possible that he could make sufficient strides this year alone?

 

Catching takes time to master. There's a reason catching prospects are usually older for prospects when they advance to the big leagues. Unless you draft a polished college catcher it takes that extra year, or year and a half for a catcher to master everything he needs to know in the minors. Well Swihart wasn't a polished college catcher, and I'm judging how much devtime he needs on how raw he looked in the majors.

 

Now Swihart did show improvement over time, like any kid will when given a chance to just work for an extended period. That said he's nowhere near ready. The kid has some major learning to do, no shame in that, also no point pretending he doesn't have some issues to deal with. If we were a small market that was used to spending 2 years building for every year we were contending it'd be no problem at all -- just roll Swihart out and let him season on the job. Since we're trying to win every single year, the foibles of an underskilled catcher are something we just can't tolerate right now so we can't use him until he's sorted that stuff out in AAA.

 

And even if we do call him up, and even if he hits a little, the kid would go the way of Jarrod Saltalamacchia, who got a bad rap here because he came right after Tek and we were used to catchers who take their defense seriously, which never really described Salty -- a good offensive catcher, and his performance in the regular season earned him that ring of his in 13, but there's a reason David Ross did the majority of the heavy lifting in the playoffs where games matter much more and individual mistakes can destroy a deep playoff run

 

That's the kind of defense we'd be seeing from Swihart. He's having to think plays through that should be automatic for him and it shows up as hesitation. He needs just solid reps, the level matters less than the fact that he works behind the plate every day, until he becomes fully comfortable defensively at the position which could take 18 months to 2 years of consistent everyday play. If you're not going to do that with him than call him up now, stash him in left, and let him go as far as his bat will take him.

[Eddy Ballgame]

For Swihart to improve behind the plate, he needs to be playing 60-75% of the games, which of course with Vazquez, he isn't going to. Defensively, Swihart has a lot to improve on regarding containing balls in the dirt. I don't get the impression pitchers are especially trusting of him when it comes to throwing a low slider or splitter.

 

Remember what Hanigan's role is on this team. The 40% he's playing is catching Wright (which physically has to be like catching 2 games) and babysitting the Kelly/Owens/O'Sullivan slot in the rotation. Not sure that's the slots you want throw Swihart into.

 

As for the Globe article, I made the mistake of clicking on that one. If I remember correctly, it was an Eric Wilbur piece. When it comes to that "journalist", if you take what he says and do the opposite, you'll come out ahead almost every time.

 

I agree with all of this. Swihart definitely needs to catch more than twice a week. If they release Hanigan & a catcher gets hurt, then where are they? Depth is a good thing & Hanigan is a solid back up catcher.

 

The one thing I don't understand is people being all upset about Swihart playing some outfield. Versatility is never a bad thing and it's not like it's diminishing his catching skills. A lot of players start out as catchers and transition to another position. It's not yet known whether his bat could be a plus as an outfielder. Either way, there's no way this kid should be in Boston sitting on the bench 5 days a week.

Edited May 19, 2016 by Eddy Ballgame

[Dojji]

the reason for people to be upset about Swihart playing places other than catcher is that the WHOLE THING about Swihart is that he needs to improve at catcher. If he's playing games regularly in a position that is not catcher, that is not going to progress us toward the point where Swihart is ready to be a #1 catcher either for us or for another team. The whole concept smacks of a counterproductive mixed message that may result in a worse product in the end (and therefore lower trade value)

 

Also because his bat is pretty much big league ready now so if you're not going to grind him on the catcher's spot, just bring him up and let him work on his hitting against major league pitchers.

[Spudboy]

I see and understand all that you have said.

 

I guess that I see him as being a little further along in his development. I think that spending the rest of 2016 catching at AAA will be enough.

[Spudboy]

the reason for people to be upset about Swihart playing places other than catcher is that the WHOLE THING about Swihart is that he needs to improve at catcher. If he's playing games regularly in a position that is not catcher, that is not going to progress us toward the point where Swihart is ready to be a #1 catcher either for us or for another team. The whole concept smacks of a counterproductive mixed message that may result in a worse product in the end (and therefore lower trade value)

 

Also because his bat is pretty much big league ready now so if you're not going to grind him on the catcher's spot, just bring him up and let him work on his hitting against major league pitchers.

 

Which he could do while playing left field.

[Dojji]

Yes he could. So why is he learning left field in the minors again? If you're not going to commit to him as a fulltime catcher, he's probably good enough to play part time as a third catcher right now if the bat can stick as a left fielder. If you're going to make the guy a left fielder, let him play left field and let us have his bat in the lineup. It's not precisely a difficult position to master, Hanley notwithstanding

[SoxnCycles]

Yes he could. So why is he learning left field in the minors again? If you're not going to commit to him as a fulltime catcher, he's probably good enough to play part time as a third catcher right now if the bat can stick as a left fielder. If you're going to make the guy a left fielder, let him play left field and let us have his bat in the lineup. It's not precisely a difficult position to master, Hanley notwithstanding

 

Swihart is hitting .278 for the year and .250 in AAA.

I don't see the overwhelming need to bring him back to Boston yet.

[Jasonbay44]

I don't think Swihart is that much of an upgrade over Holt/Young, if any at all. I really don't understand logic of moving him to LF

[Eddy Ballgame]

the reason for people to be upset about Swihart playing places other than catcher is that the WHOLE THING about Swihart is that he needs to improve at catcher. If he's playing games regularly in a position that is not catcher, that is not going to progress us toward the point where Swihart is ready to be a #1 catcher either for us or for another team. The whole concept smacks of a counterproductive mixed message that may result in a worse product in the end (and therefore lower trade value)

 

Also because his bat is pretty much big league ready now so if you're not going to grind him on the catcher's spot, just bring him up and let him work on his hitting against major league pitchers.

 

If you bring him up, where are you playing him right now? He is catching in Pawtucket more than he's playing left field, so I'm not sure how giving him some versatility is being "counterproductive." What would be counterproductive would be to have him up here sitting on the bench. Where is he getting those at bats in Boston to "work on his hitting?"

 

Having him play left may also help Boston sooner rather than later. Holt has a history of struggling in the 2nd half and Chris Young is not an everyday player. It's not that far-fetched to think we might see Swihart as the regular left fielder at some point after the all-star break. He is much more athletic than your average catcher, and reading between the lines, the Red Sox might not see him as an every day catcher at the MLB level.

[Dojji]

Swihart is hitting .278 for the year and .250 in AAA.

I don't see the overwhelming need to bring him back to Boston yet.

 

Swihart is not a normal case when it comes to his minor league offensive numbers. I do not care what he's hitting right now. He was sent down to work on his defensive game, and we know that's what he's focusing most of his time on. The guy's already proven that he can hit a bit at the big league level, he's already demonstrated that he has the offensive skills he needs, I have no doubts there at all and neither should anyone else including the FO. He has nothing to prove offensively until he gets back to the majors.

 

People have a tendency to freak out a lot about minor league numbers, when the real question is skillset. For the most part minor league numbers are only useful as an evidence of skillset, and not always useful even for that.

 

In this case we already know with some confidence that the offensive skills are there, so these numbers over a month here and a week there just don't bother me at all

Edited May 19, 2016 by Dojji

[southpaw777]

The issue isn't with keeping Vasquez in the lineup, its why the second catcher is Hannigan while Swihart languishes in Pawtucket. Its time to see if Swihart has what it takes to be a ML catcher. Right now Vas is playing about 60% of the games; Swihart should be playing the other 40%, at least. Management is screwing around with putting him in the outfield. This can only reduce his value as a trade chip as he can't hit or field that position well enough to make it there. There was a long article a while ago in the Globe saying the same thing: dump Hannigan (and I love the guy) and give Swihart a chance.

 

What do you mean its time to see if he has what it takes? He was here all last year and for the start of this year and it was painfully obvious he has a lot of work to do defensively as well as learning to call games, work with pitchers and frame pitches. Hes hardly "languishing" in AAA...Hes learning his position where he should, In the minors. I like Hanny better as a BU anyway. He can handle wright better and is a better defender. No need to have Swi "languish" in Boston for 60-70% of the time on the bench when he can play almost every game in AAA.

My guess is he is trade bait this year anyway. Im sure there will be no shortage of teams interested in him. I like the kid and understand he came up last year out of necessity, but most everyone knows he wasnt done with his development yet. Hes still young for a catcher. Especially one that only just started catching full time once he turned pro.

Edited May 19, 2016 by southpaw777

[Slasher9]

What do you mean its time to see if he has what it takes? He was here all last year and for the start of this year and it was painfully obvious he has a lot of work to do defensively as well as learning to call games, work with pitchers and frame pitches. Hes hardly "languishing" in AAA?..Hes learning his position where he should, In the minors. I like Hanny better as a BU anyway. He can handle wright better and is a better defender. No need to have Swi "languish" in Boston for 60-70% of the time on the bench when he can play almost every game in AAA.

My guess is he is trade bait this year anyway. Im sure there will be no shortage of teams interested in him. I like the kid and understand he came up last year out of necessity, but most everyone knows he wasnt done with his development yet. Hes still young for a catcher. Especially one that just started catching full time once he turned pro.

 

Yup. Varitek was in AA ball at his age.

[SoxnCycles]

Swihart is not a normal case when it comes to his minor league offensive numbers. I do not care what he's hitting right now. He was sent down to work on his defensive game, and we know that's what he's focusing most of his time on. The guy's already proven that he can hit a bit at the big league level, he's already demonstrated that he has the offensive skills he needs, I have no doubts there at all and neither should anyone else including the FO. He has nothing to prove offensively until he gets back to the majors.

 

People have a tendency to freak out a lot about minor league numbers, when the real question is skillset. For the most part minor league numbers are only useful as an evidence of skillset, and not always useful even for that.

 

In this case we already know with some confidence that the offensive skills are there, so these numbers over a month here and a week there just don't bother me at all

 

Yup, we know what he is as a hitter.

What we don't know is if he can improve enough defensively to be a good catcher.

 

The place to do that is Pawtuckett, not Boston.

[Dojji]

absolutely -- unless you've determined that he might not be all that as catcher, which is coincidentally also the only scenario in which I could imagine trying a top catching prospect in a corner outfield position.

[Maxbialystock]

It occurs to me there might be another reason for giving Swihart time in LF. Assume he is brought up and catches 30% of games as the backup catcher. If he can play LF, he can start or sub there and still be available as the backup catcher. There is still a risk he would get injured in LF and not be available that game to back up the catcher.

 

I agree with everyone that the Sox have had a good look at his catching and found him wanting. However, the scouting report says he can be a good one. Are the Sox scouts stupid?

[southpaw777]

It occurs to me there might be another reason for giving Swihart time in LF. Assume he is brought up and catches 30% of games as the backup catcher. If he can play LF, he can start or sub there and still be available as the backup catcher. There is still a risk he would get injured in LF and not be available that game to back up the catcher.

 

I agree with everyone that the Sox have had a good look at his catching and found him wanting. However, the scouting report says he can be a good one. Are the Sox scouts stupid?

 

Not at all...he can, and probably will be a good catcher one day...Its just gonna take a bit more time to get there is all.

[Dojji]

Swihart needs to go to a team that's rebuilding that can just play him every day at the big league level and let him learn on the job. That's the ideal way to dispense with Swihart. What remains to be seen is which of them are going to be willing to offer us what we want for them. Perhaps the Twins and Ervin Santana with a couple prospects coming back our way?

[cp176]

Some of us don't want to see him in left field because as an up and coming catcher his trade value is significantly higher than as an up and coming left fielder. What ever they do with him, it still could turn out ok. No one is going to be happy if he winds up being dealt for sure but if he is a part of a package, we will probably get a pretty good arm coming back our way.