Chili Davis

[S5Dewey]

Has anyone else noticed that more and more Red Sox players are hitting to the opposite field now? First it was Pedey (a couple of years ago) who was serving an outside pitch to right field, then it was Xander and Mookie, now Papi is doing it more and more, and even Shaw is occasionally getting into the act.

 

Is it possible this is Chili Davis' doing?

[mvp 78]

Possible? Sure. I think Papi has always gone oppo fairly well. Pedey hits better when he uses all fields, but has a tendency to pull too much when he's trying to reach la luna. Xander has always hit oppo, even in the minirs. Not sure about Mookie, but seeing him destroythat shift in Gouston was fun to watch.

[jacksonianmarch]

Funny thing is, Chili was a dead pull hitter from both sides of the plate

[S5Dewey]

Possible? Sure. I think Papi has always gone oppo fairly well. Pedey hits better when he uses all fields, but has a tendency to pull too much when he's trying to reach la luna. Xander has always hit oppo, even in the minirs. Not sure about Mookie, but seeing him destroythat shift in Gouston was fun to watch.

.

It's difficult for me to express how much I like these guys going to the opposite field, almost at will. I've very old school in some aspects of the game and I've always felt that the shifts were somehow "cheating". (That's probably one of the reasons I have such a Yuge dislike for Joe Maddon). Being able to 'go the other way' beats those defenses at their own game, and I LIKE IT!

[Kingface]

Funny you say that.....I was noticing it the the other day. I like the approach to the plate so far this season A LOT better than the last few seasons for sure. They seem more patient and are taking more pitches and fouling off the junk a lot more. I'd like to see Mookie become a bit more patient but with his success...it's hard to complain! I think when he gets into a slump his patience wanes a bit....but whose wouldn't??

[sk7326]

The approach is helpful - but there are some pitfalls in that while it gives a durable approach to handling stuff away and off the plate, it reduces the chances to get (and crush) mistakes. The team is tops in the AL offensively but they are doing it in a very peculiar way.

 

15th in walk%, 20th in K-rate. Like last year, Davis clearly has put an emphasis on contact. The power has gone down in exchange for contact. (near the bottom of the league in HRs, but lead in doubles) The opposite field approach influences this. As opposed to taking some of those pitches and making the pitcher throw something in a hot zone - you are seeing them make solid contact. It is a fair approach - but I do think it is a bit more susceptible to slumps.

[Slasher9]

T It is a fair approach - but I do think it is a bit more susceptible to slumps.

making contact as opposed to trying to crush HR's make a batter more susceptible to slumps? i would like to hear your reasoning for thinking this.

 

@S5 - i also enjoy the opposite field "make contact" approach that all hitters have been doing. i especially like it when a RH batter is doing it with a runner on 2nd and 0 outs. these guys are willing to sacrifice an AB / stat in order to move their teammate over to 3rd. that is team building and goes along way to parades....

[sk7326]

making contact as opposed to trying to crush HR's make a batter more susceptible to slumps? i would like to hear your reasoning for thinking this.

 

@S5 - i also enjoy the opposite field "make contact" approach that all hitters have been doing. i especially like it when a RH batter is doing it with a runner on 2nd and 0 outs. these guys are willing to sacrifice an AB / stat in order to move their teammate over to 3rd. that is team building and goes along way to parades....

 

Making less quality contact with pitchers pitches - and not taking as many walks. We're not talking about flailing like Dave Kingman or Rob Deer so much as looking for mistakes to crush instead of working with pitchers pitches. I think of them not being able to generate any baserunners past the 3rd inning vs Tampa. Currently Boston is 5th in the bigs in On-Base%, but 15th in walk rate. The top 4 in On Base are in the Top 5 in walk rate. What they are doing is a softer version of what the Royals have done (last year the Royals were 11th in onbase while dead last in walk rate). They are generating baserunners without the walks, and without necessarily the power to consistently turn the baserunners into runs.

[Slasher9]

Funny thing is, Chili was a dead pull hitter from both sides of the plate

 

i wouldn't say "dead pull". he was more "up the middle"

Batting RH:

Pull: 296 (144 hits)

up middle: 540 (180)

Opp Field: 195 (68)

 

Batting LH:

Pull: 611 (272)

Middle: 1251 (420)

Opp: 455 (182)

[Slasher9]

Making less quality contact with pitchers pitches - and not taking as many walks. We're not talking about flailing like Dave Kingman or Rob Deer so much as looking for mistakes to crush instead of working with pitchers pitches. I think of them not being able to generate any baserunners past the 3rd inning vs Tampa. Currently Boston is 5th in the bigs in On-Base%, but 15th in walk rate. The top 4 in On Base are in the Top 5 in walk rate. What they are doing is a softer version of what the Royals have done (last year the Royals were 11th in onbase while dead last in walk rate). They are generating baserunners without the walks, and without necessarily the power to consistently turn the baserunners into runs.

 

well if we are talking about inside-outting 2-0 FB's to the opposite field to try and dink and dunk a basehit than i agree that the approach would be wrong. but to get behind in the count and switch to a "make contact" approach is what i think the players have been doing.

[Jasonbay44]

making contact as opposed to trying to crush HR's make a batter more susceptible to slumps? i would like to hear your reasoning for thinking this.

 

@S5 - i also enjoy the opposite field "make contact" approach that all hitters have been doing. i especially like it when a RH batter is doing it with a runner on 2nd and 0 outs. these guys are willing to sacrifice an AB / stat in order to move their teammate over to 3rd. that is team building and goes along way to parades....

This is a good point. I've noticed a lot of guys willing to hit opposite field fly balls and grounders to advance runners, and be fine making a productive out and making the next guys job easier.

 

Another thing I love to see is the guys grinding out AB's and forcing a ton of pitches, I can't count the number of times I've seen guys at the bottom of the order like Hanigan and JBJ put together GREAT AB's. The average isn't there yet for those guys, but those 10 pitch AB's that result in a walk are killer for a pitcher.

[cp176]

I love the way some of these guys handle their bats. Hitting the ball away from defenders has and will always make sense. Watching XB go to right as opposed to trying to rip every pitch into or over the left field wall works perfectly. He may never reach the expectations that some people have for him with respect to power numbers but oh well - we might just have to be satisfied with the fact that he is just a very good hitter. I do have to scratch my head a little here because Chili I think is the same guy who had to deal with a certain amount of abuse when things weren't going well last year. The whole coaching staff had to dig the fox holes. How much better are those coaches when the players actually play? A lot I guess.

[S5Dewey]

i wouldn't say "dead pull". he was more "up the middle"

Batting RH:

Pull: 296 (144 hits)

up middle: 540 (180)

Opp Field: 195 (68)

 

Batting LH:

Pull: 611 (272)

Middle: 1251 (420)

Opp: 455 (182)

 

Thanks. This the way I remembered him but I had no idea where to find those stats!

 

BTW, love the new av!

[mvp 78]

Plus, Chili was dangerous in RBI Baseball.

[Elktonnick]

Whoever is responsible whether Chili or whomever it is wonderful to watch. Some of the guys are beginning to remind me of Wade Boggs. I think one of the Sox announcers made that observation. I hope it continues when they go back to playing competitive teams. Let's face the Braves aren't very competitive.

[Kimmi]

Making less quality contact with pitchers pitches - and not taking as many walks. We're not talking about flailing like Dave Kingman or Rob Deer so much as looking for mistakes to crush instead of working with pitchers pitches. I think of them not being able to generate any baserunners past the 3rd inning vs Tampa. Currently Boston is 5th in the bigs in On-Base%, but 15th in walk rate. The top 4 in On Base are in the Top 5 in walk rate. What they are doing is a softer version of what the Royals have done (last year the Royals were 11th in onbase while dead last in walk rate). They are generating baserunners without the walks, and without necessarily the power to consistently turn the baserunners into runs.

 

Generating baserunners is the bottom line though, isn't it? OBP is what it's all about. Get guys on base at a high rate and the runs will come.

[Kimmi]

.

It's difficult for me to express how much I like these guys going to the opposite field, almost at will. I've very old school in some aspects of the game and I've always felt that the shifts were somehow "cheating". (That's probably one of the reasons I have such a Yuge dislike for Joe Maddon). Being able to 'go the other way' beats those defenses at their own game, and I LIKE IT!

 

I agree with this post, right down to the huge dislike for Maddon. I'm not a big fan of the shift either, but it is what it is.

[sk7326]

Generating baserunners is the bottom line though, isn't it? OBP is what it's all about. Get guys on base at a high rate and the runs will come.

 

Indeed - is it an approach built to last? Maybe. Is it one that can reduce chances for crooked numbers? Maybe. I am not being a Grinch - just watching.

[SinceYaz]

Thanks. This the way I remembered him but I had no idea where to find those stats!

 

BTW, love the new av!

 

 

Hey S5, how are ya?

 

Hasn't slash told you those are pics of his sisters?

 

 

I agree with the concept put forward that the guys are going to all fields. I enjoyed reading Shaw's quick study of how pitchers were throwing inside... watched films, and in two days he shifted his approach at the plate. These are intelligent batters, by and large. It is nice to see them come to the plate with confidence.

[SinceYaz]

I agree with this post, right down to the huge dislike for Maddon. I'm not a big fan of the shift either, but it is what it is.

 

Hey Kimmi,

 

It has often made me wonder how the Splendid Splinter* would take these exaggerated shifts. I understand that he had some shifting to face in his day but not to the extent of today.

 

* And other greats in days gone by.

[User Name]

They created a shift especifically to handle Ted Williams. He would scoff at these puny shifts.

[SinceYaz]

They created a shift especifically to handle Ted Williams. He would scoff at these puny shifts.

 

I know that Teddy was one of the first I ever heard of having a shift made for. I never saw it. I also don't claim to know it others had shifts .... I do remember Yaz having a shift - early memory - but not as aggressive as today. Now, outfields have always shifted for each batter. Even when I was playing LL in Rochester NH ... back in the '60's ...

[Kimmi]

Hey Kimmi,

 

It has often made me wonder how the Splendid Splinter* would take these exaggerated shifts. I understand that he had some shifting to face in his day but not to the extent of today.

 

* And other greats in days gone by.

 

Great hitters adjust and learn how to beat the shift. Shifts will eventually become less effective as offenses learn how to adjust to them.

[cp176]

Chili's simple approach seems to be working. Good to see Vazquez pound that one out last night. He may just become a much better hitter than anyone thinks he can.

[Slasher9]

he ambushed and destroyed that baseball.

[mvp 78]

On CV:

 

Just trying to get him aggressive,” Davis said. “Just basically said, ‘Hey, I don’t think this guy is going to respect you. He’s going to come right at you early. Let it go. Let it fire.’ Just trying to get him aggressive early in the at-bat, which he was. He got the first-pitch heater and he jumped on it.”

[cp176]

Kind of like what Ortiz said about his first pitch homer the other night. He had a pretty good idea (70% chance) of what was was going to be thrown. Chill and Vaz were probably figuring on a 100% chance of a fastball coming. No guessing required. Said it was the longest ball he has ever hit.

[S5Dewey]

Kind of like what Ortiz said about his first pitch homer the other night. He had a pretty good idea (70% chance) of what was was going to be thrown. Chill and Vaz were probably figuring on a 100% chance of a fastball coming. No guessing required. Said it was the longest ball he has ever hit.

A fastball, huh? It seems like Papi may have gotten into Betances' head a bit with the observation that he always throws a curve on the first pitch.

[illinoisredsox]

A fastball, huh? It seems like Papi may have gotten into Betances' head a bit with the observation that he always throws a curve on the first pitch.

 

Very likely.

 

When I was a kid, I read a book on Tom Seaver. In it, Seaver recounts the first time he faced Hank Aaron. He got Aaron to hit into a double play on an inside fastball. Paraphrasing Seaver, "That's it, that his weakness." Next time up Seaver threw an inside fastball again and Aaron chalked one up on his way to 755. Seaver said he learned from that that good hitters think too, and what Aaron was thinking was "Kid pitcher, got me to into that DP last time up on an inside fastball, bet he comes with it again"

[sk7326]

 

"@jonahkeri Chili Davis once told reporters "If you don't get laid in Montreal,you're really in a slump""