Referendum on John Farrell

[Dojji]

Couldn't even win a series against the Twins.

 

Because there has ever been a manager in the history of baseball that has never given up an upset series over the course of the regular season.

 

Are you being sarcastic? Please tell me you're being sarcastic.

[mvp 78]

I don't remember a ton of weird moves. Name a couple.

 

Not hitting for Workman late in the game when Napoli was on the bench.

Not moving on from Salty sooner. Sox really needed Ross' defense and Salty's bat wasn't doing enough to keep him in the lineup.

Used Gomes over Nava too often.

Too slow to get Xander playing time when he played well down the stretch. Drew's bat was terrible and Middlebrooks wasn't doing anything. Salty and Middlebrooks combined to really screw up the end of game 3.

[mvp 78]

Because there has ever been a manager in the history of baseball that has never given up an upset series over the course of the regular season.

 

Are you being sarcastic? Please tell me you're being sarcastic.

 

#neversarcasm

 

This team needs to win as much as they can at home before they spend the majority of the second half on the road. When you have a lead against one of the worst teams in baseball, you need to put them away. They should have gone 3-1 at the very least. That series was inexcusable.

[illinoisredsox]

#neversarcasm

 

This team needs to win as much as they can at home before they spend the majority of the second half on the road. When you have a lead against one of the worst teams in baseball, you need to put them away. They should have gone 3-1 at the very least. That series was inexcusable.

 

And so what moves would you have made to do that, oh wise one?

[SoxnCycles]

And so what moves would you have made to do that, oh wise one?

 

"Trade Pedroia. Fire Farrell. Put Buchholz on waivers."

 

That would fix everything!

[mvp 78]

"Trade Pedroia. Fire Farrell. Put Buchholz on waivers."

 

That would fix everything!

 

Gets them back on track!

[mvp 78]

And so what moves would you have made to do that, oh wise one?

 

I would have not given Farrell an extension in the offseason and would have made Lovullo the manager for one.

[Slasher9]

I would have not given Farrell an extension in the offseason and would have made Lovullo the manager for one.

 

that would make you the owner. do you know what kind of PR nightmare you would be facing if you fired a manager that was recovering from the Cancer? this is a business at the end of the day.

[Bellhorn04]

Not hitting for Workman late in the game when Napoli was on the bench.

Not moving on from Salty sooner. Sox really needed Ross' defense and Salty's bat wasn't doing enough to keep him in the lineup.

Used Gomes over Nava too often.

Too slow to get Xander playing time when he played well down the stretch. Drew's bat was terrible and Middlebrooks wasn't doing anything. Salty and Middlebrooks combined to really screw up the end of game 3.

 

I'll give you the first one. The rest is just standard second-guessing.

[mvp 78]

that would make you the owner. do you know what kind of PR nightmare you would be facing if you fired a manager that was recovering from the Cancer? this is a business at the end of the day.

 

They have no problem with bad PR (see 2011 offseason and all the nonsense that went on then).

 

Dumping Farrell wouldn't have hurt TV ratings (they got rid of the popular Orsillo). Dumping Farrell wouldn't have hurt ticket sales (no one goes to Fenway to see the manager).

[mvp 78]

I'll give you the first one. The rest is just standard second-guessing.

 

I didn't want Salty starting that postseason. That's not second guessing.

[illinoisredsox]

I didn't want Salty starting that postseason. That's not second guessing.

 

Sure you didn't.

[Maxbialystock]

Not hitting for Workman late in the game when Napoli was on the bench.

Not moving on from Salty sooner. Sox really needed Ross' defense and Salty's bat wasn't doing enough to keep him in the lineup.

Used Gomes over Nava too often.

Too slow to get Xander playing time when he played well down the stretch. Drew's bat was terrible and Middlebrooks wasn't doing anything. Salty and Middlebrooks combined to really screw up the end of game 3.

 

I have to say that's pretty thin gruel. In order,

 

What year, 2013 or 2014, did Farrell not pinch hit Napoli? If 2013, who the hell cares? We won everything. If 2014, really, the same deal, only we were mired in the cellar.

 

Salty in 2013. Again, who the hell cares? We won everything that year, and Saltalamacchia that year had an offensive WAR of 3.5, fifth best on the team and higher than Nava or Napoli.

 

As for Gomes and Nava, I hope you know that Nava had 458 at bats vs. Gomes 312 at bats (and Gomes hit 13 dingers to Nava's 12). On top of which, who the hell cares when the Sox won it all?

 

Too slow to play a 20 year old rookie? Come off it. Besides, who the hell cares when the Sox won everything?

 

Your specific examples reinforce my belief--more than ever--that fans simply like to gripe about the manager regardless of how well they are doing overall. But when you pin them down, as I said at the outset, they turn out to be serving pretty thin gruel.

[mvp 78]

Sure you didn't.

 

Go back to the WS Gamethreads.

 

In Game 1, I said how great Ross had been defensively.

 

In Game 2, I said "Ross in game 3 please. So sick of Salty."

[mvp 78]

I have to say that's pretty thin gruel. In order,

 

What year, 2013 or 2014, did Farrell not pinch hit Napoli? If 2013, who the hell cares? We won everything. If 2014, really, the same deal, only we were mired in the cellar.

 

Salty in 2013. Again, who the hell cares? We won everything that year, and Saltalamacchia that year had an offensive WAR of 3.5, fifth best on the team and higher than Nava or Napoli.

 

As for Gomes and Nava, I hope you know that Nava had 458 at bats vs. Gomes 312 at bats (and Gomes hit 13 dingers to Nava's 12). On top of which, who the hell cares when the Sox won it all?

 

Too slow to play a 20 year old rookie? Come off it. Besides, who the hell cares when the Sox won everything?

 

Your specific examples reinforce my belief--more than ever--that fans simply like to gripe about the manager regardless of how well they are doing overall. But when you pin them down, as I said at the outset, they turn out to be serving pretty thin gruel.

 

Since you struggle with reading comprehension, I was answering Bellhorn's questioning about which specific moves during the 2013 World Series did I disagree with.

[mvp 78]

YOTN, can we please add the "fire" emoticon please?

 

#newemoticons

[Slasher9]

I didn't want Salty starting that postseason. That's not second guessing.

 

salty 2013:

Sept/Oct:

.314 BA / .945 OPS / 13 RBI / 4 SB

 

yeah...he was really limping into the post season. i could see how someone as brilliant as you would have wanted him to not start in the post season.

[a700hitter]

He was a train wreck defensively

[Dojji]

And if he hit that might not have even mattered. he got moved on from because he wasn't hitting.

[mvp 78]

salty 2013:

Sept/Oct:

.314 BA / .945 OPS / 13 RBI / 4 SB

 

yeah...he was really limping into the post season. i could see how someone as brilliant as you would have wanted him to not start in the post season.

 

I hated his defense. The Sox ended up benching him because of his s***** defense.

 

If his offense was so worthwhile, why didn't they bring him back the next year?

 

p.s. Thanks for the compliment! Farrell ended up following my advice later in the series.

[mvp 78]

And if he hit that might not have even mattered. he got moved on from because he wasn't hitting.

 

No, his s***** defense was a huge part of it.

[mvp 78]

Salty makes costly mistakes in his only 2 WS games and is promptly benched, but it's because of his bat... Um, ok? That's just the craziest of crazy talk. Every article I've found mentions the reason for his benching as being his horrible defense and costly errors...

[illinoisredsox]

Go back to the WS Gamethreads.

 

In Game 1, I said how great Ross had been defensively.

 

In Game 2, I said "Ross in game 3 please. So sick of Salty."

 

I didn't want Salty starting that postseason. That's not second guessing.

 

The World Series does not equal the postseason. Nice try.

 

It took 2 series for Salty to play his way out of the catching rotation. A person with the foresight you have should have made that statement prior to the Tampa series.

[illinoisredsox]

I hated his defense. The Sox ended up benching him because of his s***** defense.

 

If his offense was so worthwhile, why didn't they bring him back the next year?

 

p.s. Thanks for the compliment! Farrell ended up following my advice later in the series.

 

Yeah, you were the only person in Red Sox nation to express that thought.

[Maxbialystock]

Since you struggle with reading comprehension, I was answering Bellhorn's questioning about which specific moves during the 2013 World Series did I disagree with.

 

No, I just didn't see Bellhorn's point because you didn't quote him in your response. Now that I understand the context, let me say the following about the 2013 World Series--

 

1. You want to fire a manager whose team won that World Series, 4-2 over a good Cardinals team.

2. In game 3 he could have pinch hit Napoli for Workman--he'd already pinch hit twice for pitchers--but he decided to let Workman hit, I assume, so that he could stay in the game and pitch, maybe because Workman was our 5th pitcher in that game and the game was tied going into the 9th inning, in which Workman pitched. Not a bad idea, I'd say, given that Workman gave up no unearned runs in the 9th.

3. In the Series, Gomes had a higher OPS, .580, than Nava, .357, and more rbi's. How can you fault Farrell for using Gomes more?

4. I am no fan of Saltalamacchia and agree Ross was better defensively. But you know something? Horrible, stinking, rotten catcher that he was, Salty caught the best game pitched by a Sox pitcher in the 2013 postseason, game 3 against Detroit at Detroit, a shutout by Lackey, when he beat Verlander 1-0. He also pinch hit for Ross in the 7th inning and stayed in to finish another well-pitched game, the 1-0 loss to Detroit in game 1 of the ALCS. And let's not forget that that egregious error by Salty to lose game 3 to the Cardinals was actually not an error by him, but by Middlebrooks for interference. Nevertheless, Farrell correctly (in my opinion) decided that Salty was terminally stupid for making the throw in the first place and didn't play him again. Although Ross ended up with the higher OPS in the 2013 postseason, going in it made sense to play Salty because of his bat. And, as I say, he did catch a pretty good game or two.

5. Bogaerts. Are you serious saying he didn't play enough in the 2013 WS when he played in all 6 games (while striking out 8 times vs. 1 walk and having an OPS of .594)?

 

All in all, the defense rests on the simple fact that the prosecution of Farrell as an inept 2013 WS manager is based on very flimsy evidence.

[Slasher9]

Salty makes costly mistakes in his only 2 WS games and is promptly benched, but it's because of his bat... Um, ok? That's just the craziest of crazy talk. Every article I've found mentions the reason for his benching as being his horrible defense and costly errors...

 

Fair enough. And I agree that the throw costing the game was reason for his benching. I misunderstood when you said "going into the playoffs".

[Kimmi]

the problem with managers is that nearly every decision they make involves playing the odds. and so therefore nearly every decision they make has a very large minority of times when it fails, simply due to the laws of probability. Easy enough to let confirmation bias do your thinking for you when even the best managers fail nearly as often as they succeed.

 

Ignoring someone's successes and roosting like a nesting hen on the failures is something we humans are emotionally hard wired to do when we already decide we don't like them. Unless you're consciously guarding against it, it's a trap you WILL fall into.

 

Good posts regarding Farrell in this thread. I agree.

 

I've always felt that the off field managing is far more important than the in game decisions. IMO, Farrell does a very good job with that aspect of managing.

[mvp 78]

Yeah, you were the only person in Red Sox nation to express that thought.

 

Never said I was.

[mvp 78]

The World Series does not equal the postseason. Nice try.

 

It took 2 series for Salty to play his way out of the catching rotation. A person with the foresight you have should have made that statement prior to the Tampa series.

 

Don't hirt your back with those goalposts!

[mvp 78]

Fair enough. And I agree that the throw costing the game was reason for his benching. I misunderstood when you said "going into the playoffs".

 

I wouldn't hold it against you. You seem like a fairly reasonable person.