A Realistic View at 2016

[moonslav59]

How can you say that, moon. Did you see what happened to Swihart yesterday? And injuries like that happen all the time in baseball. I think baseball is actually one of the hardest sports on the body because it involves a lot of unnatural movements and awkward positions.

 

Yeah, and I'm the "ignoarnt" one.

 

I hope you're being sarcastic, but a significant percentage of injuries are from guys running to 1B in a straight line.

 

It's really not even close. Football, Basketball and Hockey are much more physically demanding and in many cases involve violent collisions on a regular basis- not once every 5-10 games.

[moonslav59]

Fans tend to remember a player's last year. As i may have said before, I'd rather see a player like Papi who has the opportunity to leave an outstanding legacy go out a year too early rather than a year too late. Even Derek Jeter, Mr. Yankee himself, may have hung around a year too long and he'll be remembered for that almost as much for his Glory Years.

"Yeah, Jeter had some great years on some very good teams and won a handful of rings, but that last year....".

 

Papi can leave now without that "but" at the end of the sentence. Legacy, baby. Legacy.

 

I do recall the steep decline of Jim Rice, but in no way do I define him by his last year or two.

 

Does anyone define Schilling by his 2008 season? I don't.

 

He got paid $8M to not even play.

 

Yes, it would be sad to see Papi bat .225 with 10 HRs in 450 PAs next season, but I seriously doubt anyone would look at his career and see that as a significant event.

 

Besides, it's all about his choice, and if he's firm about the choice he made last winter, I'm not going to argue with that choice.

 

My position is that the Sox should go out of their way to make him feel welcome to come back, if HE CHOOSES to. If the first overtures are rebuffed, then of course we respect his choice and go out of our way to plan the best send-off any Boston athlete has ever experienced.

[User Name]

 

I played baseball, football, basketball and hockey maybe about 300 days a year until I was in my late 20's (mostly baseball and basketball after 21). I played some soccer, raquetball and volleyball as well, but I was talking about the 4 major sports when I said baseball was the "easiest". I guess I was assuming that was implied. Golf, car racing and other mentions are games or hobbies to me- not really sports, but I don't want to get into semantics or arguments about what we should call a sport or not.

 

It's not even close: baseball is by far the easiest sport. Okay, maybe a couple positions are demanding and might be harder than being a placekicker in footb, and if you want to go down that road to prove I was wrong, feel free to go there. Overall, baseball is a cakewalk over any other major sport, especially physically, and that's what we were discussing with Papi and his feet.

I never claimed MLB wasn't a mental grind. As much as I played baseball over my life, I never became a very good hitter. Hitting a round ball going 80+ mph with a rounded bat is an exercise in futility. I marvel at the skills of guys like Papi. I realize it takes work, but the work is not as physically demanding as being great at other major sports.

 

Papi is not a pitcher or a catcher. When he does play in the field, he plays 1B- the second most easy position next to DH. I don't say this to try and minimize the pain Papi might feel just walking to the plate. It was meant to put his situation in perspective.

 

Only Papi and his doctors know just how bad his feet are. Like I've said all along, if they are in that bad of shape, then the argument is essentially over, unless Papi chooses to continue to play through pain due to feeling the enjoyment of the game outweighs the pain. If his pain is as bad as many of you seem to think it is, then I guess he should have retired last year or the year before. This season is evidence that Papi enjoys the game enough to play one more season- at least.

 

I don't understand why my position of wanting us to just offer him a tremendous offer and let him decide has been met with such ferocious opposition.

 

Baseball is not either the least physically demanding nor the easiest sport. Hitting is the hardest thing to do in any sport, for one. As a guy who nearly tore an oblique playing baseball and fast-pitch softball and had numerous other injuries, I just don't buy what you're selling. Sorry. That's what we're arguing anyway.

 

In the end, everyone would welcome Ortiz back with open arms, but minimizing the difficulty and physical demands of the sport (even for a DH) definitely sounds like someone who never played.

[User Name]

Yeah, and I'm the "ignoarnt" one.

 

I hope you're being sarcastic, but a significant percentage of injuries are from guys running to 1B in a straight line.

 

It's really not even close. Football, Basketball and Hockey are much more physically demanding and in many cases involve violent collisions on a regular basis- not once every 5-10 games.

 

You are ignorant because you said baseball is the easiest and least physically demanding sport of all.

 

1) "Only a sith deals in absolutes"

 

2) That is absolutely false, and relative.

[moonslav59]

I didn't say baseball was the easiest to be good at or master.

 

It's the easiest to play, in terms of physical demands, especially in the context of foot injuries and being a DH.

 

Would Papi fair better in skates playing in the NHL?

 

How about any position, excpet kicker in the NFL?

 

NBA?

 

I think speaking in absolutes here is not being ignorant.

[User Name]

It's not the easiest to master in terms of physical demands either. That depends on position, and there are sports besides the big four, and soccer. You made a blanket statement which (and was, no matter how much you move the goalposts) incorrect.

[moonslav59]

I should have been clearer when I said "easiest sport in the world", that I meant major 4 sports, but just to be clear, are you saying major league baseball, in general, is a more physically demanding sport than the NFL, NBA and NHL?

[User Name]

Again, that depends on a number of factors. Can you compare a kicker's 16 games to a full-time catcher's 130+? Is a starting pitcher's workload not comparable at least in terms of physical preparation/impact to that of an NBA/NHL player?

 

The main problem is that baseball is unique in the fact that it's a six-month schedule of doing maximum effort type stuff on a nightly basis. It's not a direct comparison to any sport because of this, and features the single most damaging activity a human being can perform in sports (pitching) and the single hardest activity a human being can perform in sports (hitting).

[moonslav59]

Now, who is talking in absolutes?

[User Name]

Not me, science. Look up the mythbusters episode on "the hardest skill to master", and look up the studies done on the effects of pitching (damage-wise) on the human body, particularly stuff by Chris O' Leary. They're the siths, since they made the conclusions, I'm just using them to prove a point.

[SoxHop]

Moon, I'm with you. Baseball has nothing over the other sports as far as being hard. You either have the talent or don't.

 

Baseball is stupid...... you might tweak a hammy sometimes.

 

But the other three you wreck you body and are in a bar room brawl for about 45 minutes during the whole game.

 

And being a DH........ it's easier than being a person who puts floral arrangements together. 5 minutes work a day, jog to the base.

 

It's just easier to retire when you have 100 more mil in the bank then the rest of us......

 

I'm glad he's going out on top though..

[SoxHop]

I do admit you have to keep it together when you are a hitter. Swinging is explosive and you need to be top notch to be good and probably super top notch in the MLB as far as conditioning. But staying that way ain't as hard as a regular 9 to 5 and nothing compared to other sports IMO and from a bit of experience...

[SoxHop]

The only position in baseball that's an actual grind is catcher.

 

That is a brutal position to play....... it sucks big time,.........

 

I caught a bit, caught some AA pitchers, they had ungodly junk that never went into the exact correct crease in my glove and it hurt like hell. And crouching for hours and ...................I hated catching and they are tough tough people..

[moonslav59]

Not me, science. Look up the mythbusters episode on "the hardest skill to master", and look up the studies done on the effects of pitching (damage-wise) on the human body, particularly stuff by Chris O' Leary. They're the siths, since they made the conclusions, I'm just using them to prove a point.

 

Oh, Mythbusters is absolutely factual in every sense.

 

I said baseball "In general", not the hardest position in every sport.

 

Man, you guys like to nit-pick.

 

Hitting is a very difficult skill to master, but that's not the same as saying it is "physically demanding".

 

I've said I erred in the wording of my initial statement, but if you want to roast me alive for that, then have fun.

[User Name]

Oh, Mythbusters is absolutely factual in every sense.

 

I said baseball "In general", not the hardest position in every sport.

 

Man, you guys like to nit-pick.

 

Hitting is a very difficult skill to master, but that's not the same as saying it is "physically demanding".

 

I've said I erred in the wording of my initial statement, but if you want to roast me alive for that, then have fun.

 

At least mythbusters does factual research based on some sort of scientific method instead of spitballing and throwing out blanket statements on the internet like we're doing.

 

As a guy who's wrecked obliques twice while swinging, I disagree. Then again, that's not the point: Playing baseball at the professional level is not easy. We can't prove (or convince each other) that it's easier or harder than any other sport mentally or physically. What's fact is that it's hard. Hitting is hard, getting ready is hard, the schedule is hard, dealing with fans/media is hard, and minimizing its difficulty is unfair at best, and pedantic at worst. If it's so easy, why didn't you or I go pro?

 

We'd welcome Ortiz back with open hands, but if overuse injuries from this "Easy sport" are keeping him from coming back, that's his decision.

[User Name]

I do admit you have to keep it together when you are a hitter. Swinging is explosive and you need to be top notch to be good and probably super top notch in the MLB as far as conditioning. But staying that way ain't as hard as a regular 9 to 5 and nothing compared to other sports IMO and from a bit of experience...

 

I sure traveled all over the country and played 140 games while dealing with nagging injuries during my years as a 9-5 employee! Whew! That was hardcore!

[SoxHop]

I sure traveled all over the country and played 140 games while dealing with nagging injuries during my years as a 9-5 employee! Whew! That was hardcore!

 

please...... travelling first class in high end hotels for a half a year.......... so what about the nagging injuries, every occupation has something.

 

there isn't a person in this world that wouldn't trade their position to be a DH......

 

get real.....

[mvp 78]

That's just crazy talk.

[User Name]

please...... travelling first class in high end hotels for a half a year.......... so what about the nagging injuries, every occupation has something.

 

there isn't a person in this world that wouldn't trade their position to be a DH......

 

get real.....

 

Because of the money. And they make money for that specific reason.

 

You wanna get real? Would you trade a 60 K 9-5 job for being a DH if being a DH also paid 60 K?

[User Name]

That's just crazy talk.

 

I'm sorry, not to be mean, but I think these guys live in a different reality.

[a700hitter]

They live privileged lives. There is no doubt about that. I remember at Yaz's Hall of Fame induction ceremony he said that he would often be asked about how he handled pressure. I will paraphrase his answer: "What pressure? Pressure is raising and providing comfort for one's family. That's pressure. Playing professional baseball is not pressure."

 

It is difficult. It is hard work, but let's not elevate it to a "grind." Everything is done for these guys. Every need they have is taken care of by someone else. They are only responsible to get themselves prepared to play (and they get help with that too) and play. Phil Rizzuto who prbably never made more than $30k as a player talked about how he was unprepared for the real world after his playing days were over. He was shocked to learn that he had to carry his own bags when traveling or that he had to make his own travel arrangements. It is a very pampered life.

[SoxHop]

Because of the money. And they make money for that specific reason.

 

You wanna get real? Would you trade a 60 K 9-5 job for being a DH if being a DH also paid 60 K?

 

Anyone in the world would do that in a heartbeat.

[User Name]

Flip that around. Ask Ortiz if he would trade it and he would say no in a heartbeat.

 

14 million for a 9-5 job? Without having to spend six months away from family, and dealing with ******* media and fans? I beg to differ, although that depends on the individual.

[User Name]

Anyone in the world would do that in a heartbeat.

 

f*** that. For average money? No way bro. Only the guys that truly love the game itself would.

[User Name]

They live privileged lives. There is no doubt about that. I remember at Yaz's Hall of Fame induction ceremony he said that he would often be asked about how he handled pressure. I will paraphrase his answer: "What pressure? Pressure is raising and providing comfort for one's family. That's pressure. Playing professional baseball is not pressure."

 

It is difficult. It is hard work, but let's not elevate it to a "grind." Everything is done for these guys. Every need they have is taken care of by someone else. They are only responsible to get themselves prepared to play (and they get help with that too) and play. Phil Rizzuto who prbably never made more than $30k as a player talked about how he was unprepared for the real world after his playing days were over. He was shocked to learn that he had to carry his own bags when traveling or that he had to make his own travel arrangements. It is a very pampered life.

 

Oh it's pampered. But please don't compare the age of social media to Yaz' time. If this was the '60's or '70's, I would absolutely agree with you, but the added grind (yes, grind) of expectations, social media, the traditional media, the scrutiny etc, it's a hell of a lot harder being a ballplayer now than it was back when the requirements were: Play hard.

[a700hitter]

f*** that. For average money? No way bro. Only the guys that truly love the game itself would.

There would be a very long sign up list -- even at 60 k. Oil Can Boyd is 56 years old and can't pitch anymore, but he still plays independent baseball. He just loves it.

[User Name]

There would be a very long sign up list -- even at 60 k. Oil Can Boyd is 56 years old and can't pitch anymore, but he still plays independent baseball. He just loves it.

 

Do you think JD Drew, Manny Ramirez and Albert Belle would have signed up? There would be a long "f*** this" list too.

[SoxHop]

f*** that. For average money? No way bro. Only the guys that truly love the game itself would.

 

Actually, you're right. Funny enough that was kind of a decision I had to make recently. The money wasn't there though for the time not being home with people I want to spend time with.

 

But, ask me again making one million a year and I have to preform in a batting cage to the best ability a can every city a travel to for 20 pitches every day for 162....... easy money...... no question.......

[a700hitter]

Oh it's pampered. But please don't compare the age of social media to Yaz' time. If this was the '60's or '70's, I would absolutely agree with you, but the added grind (yes, grind) of expectations, social media, the traditional media, the scrutiny etc, it's a hell of a lot harder being a ballplayer now than it was back when the requirements were: Play hard.

He was the target of every sportswriter in Boston, and the print press had a monopoly over the news back then. They went after him all the time. And he got booed a lot. If anything, it was harder for players in the 60's and 70's, because there were no long term guaranteed contracts, and when your career was over you had to get another job unless you were a superstar. Today, Nick Punto is set for life.

[SoxHop]

Do you think JD Drew, Manny Ramirez and Albert Belle would have signed up? There would be a long "f*** this" list too.

 

THey already made their millions..... much easier to walk away....