Swihart moved to AAA

[Elktonnick]

A lot of people missing the point.

 

Christian Vazquez was the starting catcher in the minds of the Red Sox organization for the entire time Blake Swihart was called up. He was in their plans as the starting catcher as soon as they moved away from Saltalamacchia. Pierzynski was a 1 year thing to get us to Vazquez. Vazquez is a player the organization has had their minds on for years and his lack of experience aside the team never had any indication of Blake Swhiart's callup being anything other than 100% temporary.

 

This was not, at all, a knee jerk spur of the moment move by the organization. If it were, I'd agree 100% with Kimmi, but she's lost sight of the fact that as far as the entire Red Sox organization is concerned Christian Vazquez is the incumbent, not Blake Swihart. there is no known dissent on this subject.

 

Swhiart wasn't sent down because of anything he did. He was sent down because the starting catcher (which he is not and never was) got healthy and there was no further need for his extended callup, so he can now go back to the minors where he still belongs and finish learning how to be a big league catcher.

 

it's just that simple.

 

I agree completely with everything you posted above with this addendum. I think it is fairly obvious that the only way to take advantage of Swihart's bat on a regular basis, is to develop him at another position. He will never be the regular starting catcher baring an injury to Vaz. DD as well as most fans see that. That's why he was sent down to see if he can get more playing time in left field.

[a700hitter]

I agree completely with everything you posted above with this addendum. I think it is fairly obvious that the only way to take advantage of Swihart's bat on a regular basis, is to develop him at another position. He will never be the regular starting catcher baring an injury to Vaz. DD as well as most fans see that. That's why he was sent down to see if he can get more playing time in left field.

Or to build his trade value and get something in return for him that we need.

[Kimmi]

It was pretty clear that the Red Sox had intended for Vasquez to be the #1 catcher if healthy. He is hands down the best defensive catcher in the organization. They sent him on a rehab assignment. I am pretty sure that he has options left, but they made it known that he was going on a rehab assignment. Their plan in that regard was clear before opening day. When healthy, he would return as the #1 catcher. This wasn't clear to you? But it is crystall clear to you that Cherington had nothing to do with the Panda acquisition. You talk about the bias of other posters, but you have some obvious biases that are not backed by or based in facts or statistics. That's okay, because this place is all about opinions, and even the statistics presented during arguments rarely (extremely rarely) establish or prove any thing.

 

It was clear that the Sox would want Vazquez as their starting catcher eventually. Just not 8 games into the regular season. They said many times that they would not rush Vazquez back. They said repeatedly that Vazquez needed more reps after being out of baseball for a year. That in no way sounds like an 8 game venture.

[Kimmi]

I guess that I am confused. Who are we discussing? Pablo? If so, yes, I do believe that benching him or whatever was the correct move. He simply is not prepared to play at an acceptable level.

 

I don't know about Castillo or even Swihart.

 

However, neither of those two are finished products and could use the time in AAA to get better while not hindering the Sox by playing sub-par ball every day in Boston.

 

You are correct that Swihart would likely be the #1 if Vasquez was not deemed ready and available to upgrade the position.

 

Castillo? I just do not know. He appears to be very athletic. But his baseball acumen is not sufficient ( apparently ) to warrant a a permanent starting gig on the Sox.

 

We are discussing Swihart, but the philosophy of showing some patience really applies to all three.

 

Think of all the players that fans have wanted benched or that fans were sure were washed up, but the manager stuck with them, and they ended up being really good.

[a700hitter]

It was clear that the Sox would want Vazquez as their starting catcher eventually. Just not 8 games into the regular season. They said many times that they would not rush Vazquez back. They said repeatedly that Vazquez needed more reps after being out of baseball for a year. That in no way sounds like an 8 game venture.

He looks ready to me, and whether it was 8 games, 12 or 20 is irrelevant. It was not a panic move. CV was ready.

[Dojji]

It was clear that the Sox would want Vazquez as their starting catcher eventually. Just not 8 games into the regular season.

 

Why not? All "8 games into the season" means is that the decision probably wasn't predicated on Swihart's performance at all, because as you point out, he hasn't had time to come down on one side of the fence or the other yet. that should be enough to convince even you that there were clearly other factors in play.

[wyo-sox]

I suspect Swihart will be trade bait.... The Sox are in a terrible situation with the Sandavol contract... it's just way too much money to say "move on" and not play him or get anything for him. The only way they could possibly move him to another team is to eat large portions of the contract and give away a couple high profile young players, like Swihart. If the Sox move forward with C.Vasquez, Sandy Leon, and Hannigan as options they will be just fine at catcher. It sucks, but that is the reality I fear. Would someone like the Twins put a Sandavol (at small cost to them) and a few young prospects on their roster for a Santana if they completely suck 30 games into the season???

[mvp 78]

I suspect Swihart will be trade bait.... The Sox are in a terrible situation with the Sandavol contract... it's just way too much money to say "move on" and not play him or get anything for him. The only way they could possibly move him to another team is to eat large portions of the contract and give away a couple high profile young players, like Swihart. If the Sox move forward with C.Vasquez, Sandy Leon, and Hannigan as options they will be just fine at catcher. It sucks, but that is the reality I fear. Would someone like the Twins put a Sandavol (at small cost to them) and a few young prospects on their roster for a Santana if they completely suck 30 games into the season???

 

Does Sano still play 3b? Not sure the Twins would do that.

 

The Sox have enough money. They should just eat the entire contract and not throw away prospects.

[SoxnCycles]

I suspect Swihart will be trade bait.... The Sox are in a terrible situation with the Sandavol contract... it's just way too much money to say "move on" and not play him or get anything for him. The only way they could possibly move him to another team is to eat large portions of the contract and give away a couple high profile young players, like Swihart. If the Sox move forward with C.Vasquez, Sandy Leon, and Hannigan as options they will be just fine at catcher. It sucks, but that is the reality I fear. Would someone like the Twins put a Sandavol (at small cost to them) and a few young prospects on their roster for a Santana if they completely suck 30 games into the season???

 

The Sox have to exhaust every avenue available to get Sandoval back on the field, before they trade away good players, just to get rid of him.

I certainly wouldn't do it to get a Santana-type of pitcher.

We've got plenty of those.

[SoxnCycles]

Does Sano still play 3b? Not sure the Twins would do that.

 

The Sox have enough money. They should just eat the entire contract and not throw away prospects.

 

Good question.

Is he talking Ervin or Danny?

[mvp 78]

I'd imagine Ervin since there seems to be a need for another starter? Idk. I would be hesitant to dump Swihart unless you are getting something substantial back.

[wyo-sox]

Good question.

Is he talking Ervin or Danny?

 

Ervin... which would be a great #4 or #5 for us. Solidifying the starting rotation is the biggest glaring need to be a top contender this year.

[wyo-sox]

Does Sano still play 3b? Not sure the Twins would do that.

 

The Sox have enough money. They should just eat the entire contract and not throw away prospects.

 

There is certainly logic there... but at some point that money is coming out of somebody's pocket. In this case a $95 million contract. To say just eat the money to hold onto prospects means you value the prospects at $95 million. I'd rather eat 40-50 million, get rid of some prospects that may or may not be worth anything and find a pitcher that helps us win this year. It's really a no win situation. Nobody is right or wrong here. How to handle the Sandavol contract is like deciding which prison boss to whore yourself to in order to survive in prison... .really no good choices.

[mvp 78]

There is certainly logic there... but at some point that money is coming out of somebody's pocket. In this case a $95 million contract. To say just eat the money to hold onto prospects means you value the prospects at $95 million. I'd rather eat 40-50 million, get rid of some prospects that may or may not be worth anything and find a pitcher that helps us win this year. It's really a no win situation. Nobody is right or wrong here. How to handle the Sandavol contract is like deciding which prison boss to whore yourself to in order to survive in prison... .really no good choices.

 

My thought process:

 

Keep Pablo on DL all year. Rather than using Hanley as DH next year, he stays at 1b and Pablo moves to DH.

 

I don't think Pablo could bring anything worthwhile back. He's a net negative this year and trading him only makes the problem worse imo.

[Dojji]

Ervin... which would be a great #4 or #5 for us. Solidifying the starting rotation is the biggest glaring need to be a top contender this year.

 

I disagree. but I think you could be right. My disagreement is actually predicated in my faith in Porcello to solidify his position in the lower middle of the rotation, E-Rod to be effective once healthy, and actually the growing confidence I have in Stephen Wright who has been a very very pleasant little surprise so far this April.

 

If we get this version of wright or something like him for most of the season, we're actually good for starting pitching pending what we get out of ERod.

 

If the rotation looks like:

 

Price

Erod

Wright

Porcello

Buchholz/Kelly

 

... where do you put the other starter? much less the guy you're wanting to acquire? You don't get rid of Wright until he proves you should get rid of him, right now Wright is pitching like that #2-3 you wish you had. Kelly is vulnerable, but he's already likely to lose his job when ERod is healthy.

 

Unless Wright regresses to the mean or someone gets hurt there's no gaps in this rotation that you would be particularly desperate to close. We don't have an elite rotation, but we do have a complete rotation thanks to Stephen Wright. Wright's performance is better news for this franchise than I think people recognize, if he keeps it up, you could be looking at our rotation becoming a strength rather than a weakness, especially if we get good the good version of Buchholz as the season warms up.

Edited April 18, 2016 by Dojji

[jacksonianmarch]

Dojji, Wright isn't a big league starter long term. I think he's a nice option to have, but to count on him to be a #3 when he is a poor man's Wakefield isn't prudent for a team hoping to be playoff contenders. He's a good flex option, maybe a #5 if he can prove his early season success is more than luck. You don't know what youre gonna get with ERod. It will be his first "full" season and teams do adjust. Look at Severino, who is being bombed right now, yet last yr was practically untouchable. Expect a bit of a regression until he can adjust back and stay healthy. Porcello has to stay in the rotation. He's shown he can be a steady presence at the back end of a rotation for his entire career. I think Kelly belongs in the pen and Buch is a disaster. His stuff isn't there. His head isn't there. If he doesn't adjust and pitch well over the next couple weeks, then he should be let go. So assuming this, you need a #2 and maybe a #4/5 depending on Wright. Santana isn't really a 2. He has the stuff to be, don't get me wrong, but he has proven that he is unpredictable. Can be ace like at time and then put up a year where he is below replacement value. If you get him for free (which you wont) then he'd be great, but I'd be afraid to take on his contract and his history for anything of value

[Dojji]

you know the weird thing with monotones is that they're easy to tune out.

[sk7326]

Now we know that Steven Wright won't be the best pitcher in Boston history. Hell, he's not even the best STEVEN WRIGHT that Boston has produced. (sincerely, the guy on the couch) But Dojji is right in that I think Wright can produce 180+ back-rotation innings for somebody. He's not a #2 because that's just not something you'd want the knuckleballer to do. But you have to respect what he does - it would be an 8 figure salary as a free agent.

 

Buchholz is off to a rough start - but he is capable of turning it around. His durability is the reason to get rid of him, not the performance - because the stuff will come around. He is maddening, but he has been very effective 2 of the last 3 seasons. It is smart to bet the over compared to what we've seen to date.

[sk7326]

Not sure what you mean by deploy them differently. The starters need to go longer in games, pure and simple.

 

True to a point. By deploy differently, I mean that Farrell could use some parts of his bullpen to head off some of the issues in the rotation. Now, Price is a stud - using pitch counts to measure wear and such makes sense. You don't have a ton of issues with letting him see hitters a 3rd time through the order. Buchholz I think is the same - although he has to iron out some things on his own end. The stuff continues to be premium.

 

But I think you could get a lot of effectiveness by putting Owens in Kelly's spot and then having Kelly available to back Owens up. Let Owens get through the lineup twice and let Kelly take over. Let Kelly get through the lineup once and then figure out what to do from there.

[jacksonianmarch]

you know the weird thing with monotones is that they're easy to tune out.

 

Pot, kettle, black

[Bellhorn04]

My thought process:

 

Keep Pablo on DL all year. Rather than using Hanley as DH next year, he stays at 1b and Pablo moves to DH.

 

This makes as much sense as anything.

[mvp 78]

Pot, kettle, black

 

"Oho!" said the pot to the kettle;

"You are dirty and ugly and black!

Sure no one would think you were metal,

Except when you're given a crack."

 

"Not so! not so!" kettle said to the pot;

"'Tis your own dirty image you see;

For I am so clean – without blemish or blot –

That your blackness is mirrored in me."

 

- basically every argument on TS