2016 Red Sox Hot Stove Discussion Thread

[cp176]

John Henry has stated many many times that he did not want to give out a long term contract to a pitcher. The only thing that convinced him otherwise was two losing seasons.

 

So in a sense we can actually give credit to Ben for the Price signing? I'm ok with that.

[User Name]

Why is the Cherington discussion still a thing though? I mean, by all accounts, continue with this baseball related conversation, but in reality, no one's going to budge on their positions. Then again, no one has to be an ******* about it. Calling others derogatory terms because they like the guy and think he got a raw deal is prime flame fuel.

[User Name]

So in a sense we can actually give credit to Ben for the Price signing? I'm ok with that.

 

Well played. Aces.

[Spudboy]

I can't even remember what my opinion was.

[mvp 78]

Why is the Cherington discussion still a thing though? I mean, by all accounts, continue with this baseball related conversation, but in reality, no one's going to budge on their positions. Then again, no one has to be an ******* about it. Calling others derogatory terms because they like the guy and think he got a raw deal is prime flame fuel.

 

It's still ongoong because both kimmi and a700 will not let it go. Not sure anyone else cares.

[User Name]

Elktonnick and Palodios care too. But seriously, let it go.

[Spudboy]

Elktonnick and Palodios care too. But seriously, let it go.

 

I have questioned the duration of this alleged debate at least twice. I gave up.

[a700hitter]

My signature contains my final statement on the issue.

[Elktonnick]

What about Jeremy Kapstein? He is the one who got the shaft. What did Jeremy do to get fired? Who is going to take his place behind home plate, Jason Varitek? I wonder how Jason will look wearing those yellow headphones?

[Bellhorn04]

Kapstein was a Lucchino guy. It kind of makes you wonder if there was a serious falling-out between JH and LL.

[Elktonnick]

Kapstein was a Lucchino guy. It kind of makes you wonder if there was a serious falling-out between JH and LL.

 

For what's worth I think JH cleaned out all the LL guys including BC. Nevertheless that doesn't answer the "important" question of who's going to inherit the yellow headphones and the seat behind home plate?

[Palodios]

Generally my approach is that I'll avoid the BC debate for a few weeks then see the miserables still badmouthing him in every single post and I'll step back in.

 

This isn't a debate that is going away any time soon unless the miserables stop baiting the rest of us.

[a700hitter]

Generally my approach is that I'll avoid the BC debate for a few weeks then see the miserables still badmouthing him in every single post and I'll step back in.

 

This isn't a debate that is going away any time soon unless the miserables stop baiting the rest of us.

Stop with the name-calling jack-hole.

[Kimmi]

What a crock a of hooey! Price has an opt out clause in three years. He is so impressed with the opportunity to play with these young players in " two or three years" that he has that clause included in his contract.

 

You can believe in the tooth fairy if you want but you can't deny the fact that money talks (217 big ones in fact) and BS walks. The idea that all of what Dombrowski accomplished is because of Cherrington's wonderful farm system is simply more BS of wishful thinking that Cherrington actually accomplished something during his tenure as Chief of Baseball Operations other than leaving a pile of crap for some one competent to clean up .

 

Regarding the farm system it was actually Theo who put together the strategy and infrastructure that made the farm system what it is today. Cherrington only can be credited with following Epstein's lead.

 

Obviously John Henry wasn't that impressed with young Ben's efforts otherwise he wouldn't have fired him.

 

Price's #1 reason for coming to Boston was the money. No one is arguing that. However, there was a reason why Price asked about the Sox' farm system, and the response that Price received from the FO put the Red Sox clearly on the his radar as one of the teams he'd be interested in playing for. This discussion took place before the Sox offerered any contract and before there was any opt out.

 

Who cares is Cherington was only following Theo's lead? They both have the same philosophy when it comes to building teams. Theo put the plan in motion when he was hired, and Cherington continued it. It's a great plan.

[Kimmi]

I'm for that. He appeared to be an honest stand up sort of person. I wish him well. If he were to looks at our comments over the course of this debate, he would be surprised at how important it seems that he has become. For the record - i did not mind the Sandoval signing. I knew that we needed a third baseman. I wasn't opposed to the Porcello signing but I still think that his price tag was too high for what we got. Miley - I liked. I hated the Ramirez signing and still do.

 

If nothing else, look at the our team's top 4 prospects (and the rest of the farm system) that everyone regards so highly. Ben was not nearly as incompetent as many believe.

[Kimmi]

It's still ongoong because both kimmi and a700 will not let it go. Not sure anyone else cares.

 

That's interesting, because between Thursday evening from approximately 6:30 until this post of yours, there are roughly 40 reponses on the topic, and not one of them was "Originially Posted by Kimmi".

[Kimmi]

Why is the Cherington discussion still a thing though? I mean, by all accounts, continue with this baseball related conversation, but in reality, no one's going to budge on their positions. Then again, no one has to be an ******* about it. Calling others derogatory terms because they like the guy and think he got a raw deal is prime flame fuel.

 

My thinking is, what else is there to talk about? The purpose of a baseball forum is to discuss/debate baseball. I know this topic and some others have been beaten to death, but people who don't want to participate in the discussion don't have to.

 

If there were something else to discuss/debate, I'm sure the posts would tend in that direction.

 

It's not like other threads or topics of discussion are being hijacked.

[Kimmi]

Stop with the name-calling jack-hole.

 

If you're going to tell Pal to stop with the name calling, then you should also tell those who agree with your opinion to stop with the name calling.

[User Name]

My thinking is, what else is there to talk about? The purpose of a baseball forum is to discuss/debate baseball. I know this topic and some others have been beaten to death, but people who don't want to participate in the discussion don't have to.

 

If there were something else to discuss/debate, I'm sure the posts would tend in that direction.

 

It's not like other threads or topics of discussion are being hijacked.

 

If you're going to tell Pal to stop with the name calling, then you should also tell those who agree with your opinion to stop with the name calling.

 

Do you now see why I made my initial post? I said it was prime bait fuel, and what you're responding to is what I meant. I rest my case.

[Spudboy]

Talksox Place.

 

Lol.

[a700hitter]

If you're going to tell Pal to stop with the name calling, then you should also tell those who agree with your opinion to stop with the name calling.

I have you and others who do that. No need for me to intercede.

 

Edit: Plus, I really didn't notice anyone calling anyone else a derogatory name.

Edited December 19, 2015 by a700hitter

[Elktonnick]

If nothing else, look at the our team's top 4 prospects (and the rest of the farm system) that everyone regards so highly. Ben was not nearly as incompetent as many believe.

 

BC was promoted to his level of incompetence. He was ill suited for the job from which he was fired.

[cp176]

I have you and others who do that. No need for me to intercede.

 

Edit: Plus, I really didn't notice anyone calling anyone else a derogatory name.

 

I am really glad you posted this. I tend to agree with you most of the time, so I was getting ready to go back over my posts to see who I needed to apologize to for calling them names.

[Elktonnick]

Price's #1 reason for coming to Boston was the money. No one is arguing that. However, there was a reason why Price asked about the Sox' farm system, and the response that Price received from the FO put the Red Sox clearly on the his radar as one of the teams he'd be interested in playing for. This discussion took place before the Sox offerered any contract and before there was any opt out.

 

Who cares is Cherington was only following Theo's lead? They both have the same philosophy when it comes to building teams. Theo put the plan in motion when he was hired, and Cherington continued it. It's a great plan.

 

"All of the moves that Dombrowski made this offseason were only possible because of the state of the farm system that Ben left the team with." That's what you posted. I repeat to say that all of DD'sthe moves were made possible by Cherrington is so silly and disingenuous that it defies description as a serious comment.

 

Point of fact the Red Sox offered 50 million more reasons than the Cubs. Price reportedly wanted to play for John Maddon. But 50 million smackers changed his mind.

It was also reported that Price liked DD and wanted to play for him. Both the Maddon angle and the Dombrowski story were nice baseball column fodder but irrelevant, just like the farm system angle.

 

To think that the Red Sox farm system and not the dollars put the Red Sox on Price's radar is a futile and desperate attempt to discredit DD efforts and give BC some credit for Price's signing. Like what has been countless times before "Money talks and BS walks"

 

Get over Cherrington he is gone,

[Elktonnick]

Here is the partial text of the NESN article of Epstein talking about the Price signing:

“I think we ended up kind of a distant third,” Epstein revealed Wednesday night on WEEI Radio in Boston. “I think we were $50 million short or something along those lines, so his desire to maybe be in the National League and his affinity for Chicago, I don’t think it would make up that kind of a difference.” The money is a major difference-maker, but Epstein also yielded that Boston offers plenty of benefits for Price — in addition to the reported $217 million. “There was maybe a natural instinct to think that because he had played so many tough games against the Red Sox and been across the field from them, that it wouldn’t be a place that he could see himself,” Epstein explained. “But if you really look at the elements that are important to him, so many of them are important to the Red Sox — namely, a chance to win, a terrific fan base, a great ballpark, relative proximity to Nashville (Price’s hometown), so it’s a great fit. I think Red Sox fans will love David Price and he’ll really enjoy his experience there.”

 

Read more at: http://nesn.com/2015/12/theo-epstein-cubs-ended-up-distant-third-in-david-price-sweepstakes-by-50m/

 

Gee Theo talks about a lot of things being important but doesn't mention anything about the Red Sox Farm system being a factor. I wonder why?

[Ogden]

Here is the partial text of the NESN article of Epstein talking about the Price signing:

“I think we ended up kind of a distant third,” Epstein revealed Wednesday night on WEEI Radio in Boston. “I think we were $50 million short or something along those lines, so his desire to maybe be in the National League and his affinity for Chicago, I don’t think it would make up that kind of a difference.” The money is a major difference-maker, but Epstein also yielded that Boston offers plenty of benefits for Price — in addition to the reported $217 million. “There was maybe a natural instinct to think that because he had played so many tough games against the Red Sox and been across the field from them, that it wouldn’t be a place that he could see himself,” Epstein explained. “But if you really look at the elements that are important to him, so many of them are important to the Red Sox — namely, a chance to win, a terrific fan base, a great ballpark, relative proximity to Nashville (Price’s hometown), so it’s a great fit. I think Red Sox fans will love David Price and he’ll really enjoy his experience there.”

 

Read more at: http://nesn.com/2015/12/theo-epstein-cubs-ended-up-distant-third-in-david-price-sweepstakes-by-50m/

 

Gee Theo talks about a lot of things being important but doesn't mention anything about the Red Sox Farm system being a factor. I wonder why?

 

 

Relative proximity to Nashville? Memphis has relative proximity to Nashville, not Boston. Theo must have been looking at one of those spinning globes where it's 3 inches between the two cities.

[mvp 78]

That's interesting, because between Thursday evening from approximately 6:30 until this post of yours, there are roughly 40 reponses on the topic, and not one of them was "Originially Posted by Kimmi".

 

To me, the argument seems to be centered around you and A700.

[Kimmi]

Do you now see why I made my initial post? I said it was prime bait fuel, and what you're responding to is what I meant. I rest my case.

 

Point taken.

[Kimmi]

"All of the moves that Dombrowski made this offseason were only possible because of the state of the farm system that Ben left the team with." That's what you posted. I repeat to say that all of DD'sthe moves were made possible by Cherrington is so silly and disingenuous that it defies description as a serious comment.

 

Point of fact the Red Sox offered 50 million more reasons than the Cubs. Price reportedly wanted to play for John Maddon. But 50 million smackers changed his mind.

It was also reported that Price liked DD and wanted to play for him. Both the Maddon angle and the Dombrowski story were nice baseball column fodder but irrelevant, just like the farm system angle.

 

To think that the Red Sox farm system and not the dollars put the Red Sox on Price's radar is a futile and desperate attempt to discredit DD efforts and give BC some credit for Price's signing. Like what has been countless times before "Money talks and BS walks"

 

Get over Cherrington he is gone,

 

And here's what I posted first about Price's signing being possible because of the state of the farm system:

 

A big reason why ownership OK'd the Price contract was because of the young, cost-controlled players already on the team, with several more 2-3 years away. So no, it's not nonsense.

 

I have acknowledged that the main reason Price signed with the Sox is because of the money. The money was available because of the strong state of the farm system and its recent graduates.

 

That said, the strong farm system WAS a selling point for Price.

[Kimmi]

Gee Theo talks about a lot of things being important but doesn't mention anything about the Red Sox Farm system being a factor. I wonder why?

 

Perhaps because Theo is no longer the GM of the Sox?

 

Here are some excerpts from the meeting that took place between Price, his agent, and the Sox brass:

 

Said Kennedy, “I asked him at one point, I said, ‘Look, you’re going to get a huge contract no matter what, but is there anything we can do as an organization to stand out?’ And he said, ‘Show me that you have an opportunity to win. I will not be happy if we’re not winning.’

 

“So he asked us to go through position by position.”

 

Hazen gave Price a rundown, going through the 25-man roster, then the 40-man roster. Price even wanted to know about last year’s first-round pick, Andrew Benintendi.

 

“I want to win,” Price said.

 

Price showed an interest in the Red Sox’s entire roster, including their farm system, during the dinner, it was revealed Friday. According to the pitcher, Henry explained that Boston could sign him for a certain amount of money and still have the resources to add pieces in the future. It left an impression on Price, who expressed a desire to be part of Boston’s winning sports culture.

 

“The moment that dinner was over,” McKinnis told The Globe, “David and I hopped in a car to go home. The first words out of his mouth were, ‘Well, that made me want to be a Red Sox.’ ”