Ruth, Jordan, Gretzky,....???

[Bellhorn04]

Gretzky wasn't a product of a scoring explosion. His numbers even in that context are in a different universe. He like Or would do things that you just couldn't believe what you had seen. He had the best instincts of any player that I have seen. It was like he had eyes in the back of his head.

 

Agreed.

[Spudboy]

Agreed. I don't think anyone goes above him on the list, but Gretzky is right there with him. He didn't skate like Orr and wasn't explosive like Orr, but he did control the game and he simply obliterated the record book.

 

I'm not ignoring all the prolific offense The Great One brought to the game.

 

However, when Orr entered the league there was no one that could play anywhere near his "level".

 

It was as if he were playing a different game. I guess you had to have seen him play to understand this.

[a700hitter]

I'm not ignoring all the prolific offense The Great One brought to the game.

 

However, when Orr entered the league there was no one that could play anywhere near his "level".

 

It was as if he were playing a different game. I guess you had to have seen him play to understand this.

 

It was pretty much the same thing with Gretzky. I saw a lot of Orr. I was big into hockey in those years. Gretzky greatness wasn't just numbers. Gretzky like Orr did things that just left you shaking your head in disbelief.

Edited February 14, 2015 by a700hitter

[seabeachfred]

I'm not ignoring all the prolific offense The Great One brought to the game.

 

However, when Orr entered the league there was no one that could play anywhere near his "level".

 

It was as if he were playing a different game. I guess you had to have seen him play to understand this.

 

I think Orr, Gretsky and Richard could be the triumvirate of the greatest hockey players in history. To me it's hard to pick one over the other. To me the others are simple. Basketball is Michael Jordan; football Jim Brown; baseball Babe Ruth.

[Spudboy]

I think Orr, Gretsky and Richard could be the triumvirate of the greatest hockey players in history. To me it's hard to pick one over the other. To me the others are simple. Basketball is Michael Jordan; football Jim Brown; baseball Babe Ruth.

 

 

Which Richard?

[seabeachfred]

Which Richard?

 

Maurice Richard (pronounced ReeShard)---Long time star of Montreal.

[Bellhorn04]

Maurice Richard (pronounced ReeShard)---Long time star of Montreal.

 

AKA the Rocket.

 

I've only seen him on tape. He was an awesome skater and goal-scorer. But I would submit that he was one-dimensional in that his sole talent was scoring. Much the same as Bobby Hull, who was my hockey idol before he turned out to be such an ******* (jumping leagues and beating up his wife).

 

Another guy who deserves mention is Mario Lemieux.

 

In one of the international hockey series Lemieux played on a line with Gretzky. They put on an incredible show.

[Spudboy]

Maurice Richard (pronounced ReeShard)---Long time star of Montreal.

 

As differentiated from Henri.

[Kimmi]

AKA the Rocket.

 

I've only seen him on tape. He was an awesome skater and goal-scorer. But I would submit that he was one-dimensional in that his sole talent was scoring. Much the same as Bobby Hull, who was my hockey idol before he turned out to be such an ******* (jumping leagues and beating up his wife).

 

Another guy who deserves mention is Mario Lemieux.

 

In one of the international hockey series Lemieux played on a line with Gretzky. They put on an incredible show.

 

 

I know you're talking about a different Rocket, but since you mentioned idols before they turned out to be such jerks, Clemens was my first true baseball idol/crush, before he turned out to be such a jerk.

[Ogden]

Jim Brown, Gayle Sayers

Orr

Magic Johnson - a 6-8 point guard who played center when Jabbar got hurt in the finals

Hitter: Ruth - best player I never saw; Aaron and Mays - best players I saw

Pitcher: Koufax

[a700hitter]

Jim Brown, Gayle Sayers

Orr

Magic Johnson - a 6-8 point guard who played center when Jabbar got hurt in the finals

Hitter: Ruth - best player I never saw; Aaron and Mays - best players I saw

Pitcher: Koufax

Oh yes, Gale Sayers. He was the most exciting running back of all time.

[Ogden]

Maurice Richard (pronounced ReeShard)---Long time star of Montreal.

 

 

Just talking Canadiens (with an "e"), I'd take Beliveau over the Rocket, but that's like comparing a champagne worth $500 with a bottle of scotch worth $500.

[Ogden]

Gretzky was a scoring machine, no doubt about it.

 

Orr gets the nod from most people because he was the greater all-around player. He was dominant at both ends of the rink. Orr led the NHL in points scored twice as a defenceman.

 

 

Orr's assist totals were other-worldly. 87-102-80-72-90-89 in 6 consecutive seasons.

[mvp 78]

Oh yes, Gale Sayers. He was the most exciting running back of all time.

 

More so than Barry Sanders? Barry and Bo were the two most entertaining guys in my lifetime.

[Bellhorn04]

I hate to admit it, but my favorite football player at one time was a running back who is now better known as a murderer.

[a700hitter]

I hate to admit it, but my favorite football player at one time was a running back who is now better known as a murderer.

 

Another clue, please.

[Bellhorn04]

Another clue, please.

 

USC, Bills.

[cp176]

USC, Bills.

 

He certainly was one of the most dynamic running backs that I ever saw. Sad - I still do not put in the category of a Sanders, Payton, or Sayles.

[cp176]

Jim Brown, Gayle Sayers

Orr

Magic Johnson - a 6-8 point guard who played center when Jabbar got hurt in the finals

Hitter: Ruth - best player I never saw; Aaron and Mays - best players I saw

Pitcher: Koufax

 

I like your list. I am changing my hockey choice to Gretzky (I loved Orr though)

bb - still Russell - just on general principal but if my heart wasn't doing the picking Magic would of course get the nod.

Ruth still tops the baseball list - Mays just ahead of Aaron for me.

 

Koufax could have been the best ever for a short time.

[Ogden]

I like your list. I am changing my hockey choice to Gretzky (I loved Orr though)

bb - still Russell - just on general principal but if my heart wasn't doing the picking Magic would of course get the nod.

Ruth still tops the baseball list - Mays just ahead of Aaron for me.

 

Koufax could have been the best ever for a short time.

 

 

Russell dominated defensively and was a great fit for those Celtic teams, but put him on another team and I wonder how he would have made out. Red had the other 4 guys funnel everything into Russell and he ate the offensive players lunch. If that wasn't the style of the team he was on, he would have never seemed as great as he was.

[Youk Of The Nation]

Orr's assist totals were other-worldly. 87-102-80-72-90-89 in 6 consecutive seasons.

 

If that's otherworldly, what do you call 11 consecutive 100-plus assist seasons, bookended by a season of 86 and a season of 90?

 

Bobby Orr is 59th in career assists and 90th in career points. He was certainly a great player but doesn't even belong in the same discussion as Wayne Gretzky.

[Bellhorn04]

If that's otherworldly, what do you call 11 consecutive 100-plus assist seasons, bookended by a season of 86 and a season of 90?

 

Bobby Orr is 59th in career assists and 90th in career points. He was certainly a great player but doesn't even belong in the same discussion as Wayne Gretzky.

 

And now, sir, you've done it.

 

These comparisons of great players are often fundamentally absurd, but we are compelled to do them anyway for some reason.

 

Orr was a defenseman and Gretzky was a center.

 

What about goalies? Maybe Marty Brodeur deserves consideration as the best hockey player.

 

How come the lists of great football players don't include any defenders (kudos to the mention here of Lawrence Taylor)?

 

How do we compare Bill Russell with Michael Jordan?

 

Etc.

[cp176]

Russell dominated defensively and was a great fit for those Celtic teams, but put him on another team and I wonder how he would have made out. Red had the other 4 guys funnel everything into Russell and he ate the offensive players lunch. If that wasn't the style of the team he was on, he would have never seemed as great as he was.

 

I am pretty well convinced that he would have been great on any team in any era. He was never a back to the basket player but when he needed to score - he scored. Actually Chamberlain should probably get a few votes as well. Winning certainly makes them all look good. There are some who don't consider Dan Marino to be one of the all time great QB's because of no ring. That's a joke. With respect to Russell, there really wasn't anything that he couldn't do. The Celtics of old were great for sure but without Russell not so much.

[Ogden]

If that's otherworldly, what do you call 11 consecutive 100-plus assist seasons, bookended by a season of 86 and a season of 90?

 

Bobby Orr is 59th in career assists and 90th in career points. He was certainly a great player but doesn't even belong in the same discussion as Wayne Gretzky.

 

 

Did you even see Orr play throughout his career? You compare the assists of a centerman with a defenseman? I'm at a loss.

[Jasonbay44]

Russell dominated defensively and was a great fit for those Celtic teams, but put him on another team and I wonder how he would have made out. Red had the other 4 guys funnel everything into Russell and he ate the offensive players lunch. If that wasn't the style of the team he was on, he would have never seemed as great as he was.

The other thing with Russell is that he played in an era where there was only 10 teams, and his team was absolutely stacked. He played with a half dozen guys who made an all star team and multiple hall of famers. In addition, Russell also had a height advantage of most players for his era. When Russell played in the 60's, there was only 4 players above 6'8, two of which were him and Wilt Chamberlain who absolutely dominated that ERA and the height did matter. There is no way in todays NBA any player is going to block 30 shots, or record 50 rebounds in a game and put up any of those absurd stats that happened back then when Wilt and Russell dominated.

 

I'm not going to say Russell wasn't a great player and make some dumb comments like "in todays NBA he would be a poor mans Deandre Jordan or Ben Wallace" but I don't see how anyone can say he was better than Michael Jordan, at least in my opinion.

[cp176]

The other thing with Russell is that he played in an era where there was only 10 teams, and his team was absolutely stacked. He played with a half dozen guys who made an all star team and multiple hall of famers. In addition, Russell also had a height advantage of most players for his era. When Russell played in the 60's, there was only 4 players above 6'8, two of which were him and Wilt Chamberlain who absolutely dominated that ERA and the height did matter. There is no way in todays NBA any player is going to block 30 shots, or record 50 rebounds in a game and put up any of those absurd stats that happened back then when Wilt and Russell dominated.

 

I'm not going to say Russell wasn't a great player and make some dumb comments like "in todays NBA he would be a poor mans Deandre Jordan or Ben Wallace" but I don't see how anyone can say he was better than Michael Jordan, at least in my opinion.

 

If I had seen Jordan guarded by Havlicek maybe he would move up from third on my list and maybe he would slip down a few notches. It is all hypothetical - 1.=Russell 2. = Magic 3.=Jordan

 

I am sadly biased. I understand that. The game has changed dramatically and not for the better. Check the height stats for me on Z. Beatty, N Thurmond, L Ellis, I would even throw Willis Reed in there.