Is the actual rotation the worst in the last 10 Y?

[User Name]

Naaah, someone who disagrees with you is automatically a whinner.

 

There are people who disagree and are not WhiNers. You, on the other hand......

[a700hitter]

Iortiz, be careful there are a hundred or so burning hot suns of hatred from him. ^ lol!

[Northern Star]

Iortiz, be careful there are a hundred or so burning hot suns of hatred from him. ^ lol!

 

I saw what you did there.

[sk7326]

It's baseball. It's always fun, no matter what decade and even if your team is in last place. There 's no need to pretend your team is good when they aren't good. They are still your team and baseball is still fun.

 

If someone is busting out the "generational fan" thing, it sounds awfully close to the Dan Shaughnessys of the world who are a bit bummed out the team is not poetically cursed. But as far as the "aren't good" thing - 14-17 does not warrant a medal, but it is still very early. The run differential is a bit more alarming although almost all of the negative differential came in 2 games. (I'm not writing those games off - but it does skew the total a tad)

[cp176]

If someone is busting out the "generational fan" thing, it sounds awfully close to the Dan Shaughnessys of the world who are a bit bummed out the team is not poetically cursed. But as far as the "aren't good" thing - 14-17 does not warrant a medal, but it is still very early. The run differential is a bit more alarming although almost all of the negative differential came in 2 games. (I'm not writing those games off - but it does skew the total a tad)

 

I'm not sure Shaughnessy was alive when I started following the Sox. For me it's generational - Grandfather-Mother-Me

[Northern Star]

Talking of generational, people alive today have grandparents who lived their whole lives without seeing the Cubs win the Series. Let that sink in for some perspective.

[cp176]

Talking of generational, people alive today have grandparents who lived their whole lives without seeing the Cubs win the Series. Let that sink in for some perspective.

 

correct but they got da bears, da bulls, and da blackhawks. good enough

[a700hitter]

I'm not sure Shaughnessy was alive when I started following the Sox. For me it's generational - Grandfather-Mother-Me

Good point. Shaughnessy doesn't speak for me.

[a700hitter]

If someone is busting out the "generational fan" thing, it sounds awfully close to the Dan Shaughnessys of the world who are a bit bummed out the team is not poetically cursed. But as far as the "aren't good" thing - 14-17 does not warrant a medal, but it is still very early. The run differential is a bit more alarming although almost all of the negative differential came in 2 games. (I'm not writing those games off - but it does skew the total a tad)

Not quite sure of your point.

[SoxnCycles]

If bitching and whining is "generational", it skipped quite a few generations in my family.

 

Perhaps it's because some old bastids can't remember when this franchise truly sucked.

[Palodios]

I have lobbying for this flamefest of a thread to be closed for months now. Oh well.

[User Name]

It was flame-bait from the beginning.

[Palodios]

It was flame-bait from the beginning.

 

Yep.

[iortiz]

I have lobbying for this flamefest of a thread to be closed for months now. Oh well.

 

Read the last 5 pages and figure out how and who started this s*** up. Unfortunately this is how this thread has been at times, furthermore, unfortunately this is how this board has been at times. While some talk about baseball, the same old posters start the s*** up storm. Unfortunately some posters can't handle criticism against the team. If they can't handle criticism, they shall not read this thread. If the Red Sox ends up posting the worst numbers in the last 10 Y or something close as I predicted regarding pitching, it will be a realistic call, and not a pessimist one, as some have called.

Edited May 11, 2015 by iortiz

[a700hitter]

I have lobbying for this flamefest of a thread to be closed for months now. Oh well.

In light of our pitching performance this season, this should have been a serious discussion thread from the beginning, as the title of the thread now seems almost prophetic. Two or 3 jackholes turned it into a flame fest. If you want to throw in with them, that's your choice.

[a700hitter]

Read the last 5 pages and figure out how and who started this s*** up. Unfortunately this is how this thread has been at times, furthermore, unfortunately this is how this board has been at times. While some talk about baseball, the same old posters start the s*** up storm. Unfortunately some posters can't handle criticism against the team. If they can't handle criticism, they shall not read this thread. If the Red Sox ends up posting the worst numbers in the last 10 Y or something close as I predicted regarding pitching, it will be a realistic call, and not a pessimist one, as some have called.

They also have a burning hatred for other posters that borders on the psychotic.

[iortiz]

In light of our pitching performance this season, this should have been a serious discussion thread from the beginning, as the title of the thread now seems almost prophetic. Two or 3 jackholes turned it into a flame fest. If you want to throw in with them, that's your choice.

 

I remember when some of us predicted the pitching collapse by August in 2011, and kind of the same happened LOL!.

 

Hopefully if this mess continues, they probably will change the strategy regarding pitching, and bring true solid arms.

[sk7326]

I remember when some of us predicted the pitching collapse by August in 2011, and kind of the same happened LOL!.

 

Hopefully if this mess continues, they probably will change the strategy regarding pitching, and bring true solid arms.

 

You mean like sign the top free agent pitcher on the market and upgrade the defense on paper like in 2010?

[SoxnCycles]

I remember when some of us predicted the pitching collapse by August in 2011, and kind of the same happened LOL!.

 

Hopefully if this mess continues, they probably will change the strategy regarding pitching, and bring true solid arms.

 

If you predict that the team with suck often enough, you're going to be right once in a while.

I'm not sure why some folks think they deserve a medal for it.

[a700hitter]

You mean like sign the top free agent pitcher on the market and upgrade the defense on paper like in 2010?

There are several approaches that can be taken. Is it your position that the plan this off season was a sound one?

[iortiz]

They also have a burning hatred for other posters that borders on the psychotic.

 

I have agreed an disagreed with several posters regarding this topic, and IMO the discussion has been very interesting and polemic, but always has been about baseball.

 

One thing is what I think about the current pitching (trying to be objective and realistic as the call I did in the offseason regarding our rotation which unfoutunatly is turning into a reality ), and another very different thing is what I wish/disire/hope regarding the team, specially at pitching.

[iortiz]

If you predict that the team with suck often enough, you're going to be right once in a while.

I'm not sure why some folks think they deserve a medal for it.

 

I haven't predicted failures all the time. Actually aside that collapse and this mess, I had been very optimistic about the team.

[Palodios]

In light of our pitching performance this season, this should have been a serious discussion thread from the beginning, as the title of the thread now seems almost prophetic. Two or 3 jackholes turned it into a flame fest. If you want to throw in with them, that's your choice.

 

It doesn't matter who started it, you and iortiz certainly are okay with continuing it.

[a700hitter]

I have agreed an disagreed with several posters regarding this topic, and IMO the discussion has been very interesting and polemic, but always has been about baseball.

 

One thing is what I think about the current pitching (trying to be objective and realistic as the call I did in the offseason regarding our rotation which unfoutunatly is turning into a reality ), and another very different thing is what I wish/disire/hope regarding the team, specially at pitching.

Even we have disagreed on the topic of Porcello. I think he may be our only solid starter, but there was no rush to sign him to $20+ million/year for 4 years.

 

The title of the thread is provocative, meant to generate baseball discussion. Some people just can't have such a discusssion. I just ignore the toxic people. If they can't engage in civil conversation, then they have nothing to offer. Kimmi looks at the game in a much different way than I do, and we disagree a lot. Even when we agree on a topic, we come at it from different perspectives, but our discussions are civil. That's the way it should be. It can be done.

[iortiz]

You mean like sign the top free agent pitcher on the market and upgrade the defense on paper like in 2010?

 

Like signing guys like Shields and Lester, No 1 types and durable and who wouldnt't hurt our payroll. I have said that over and over again. Then... If they wanted to experiment at the 3-5 spots as they did with guys like Porcello, Miley, etc., I would call it great offseason.

[a700hitter]

It doesn't matter who started it, you and iortiz certainly are okay with continuing it.

I have two of the jackholes on ignore. Read the thread. I almost never respond to their attacks, because I can't see them unless quoted. So, you are wrong in your assessment of me continuing this. They started it and have continued it, but I will not be bullied. If you want to side with the clearly aggressive bullies, that's your decision.

[iortiz]

It doesn't matter who started it, you and iortiz certainly are okay with continuing it.

 

It matters pal. Can't speak for Ted but I'm oks continuing debating about this topic, nothing more and nothing less. To me it is interesting and polemic. Problem is people starting s*** up, if they do not like this thread, out there are 20000 more.

[a700hitter]

I haven't predicted failures all the time. Actually aside that collapse and this mess, I had been very optimistic about the team.

I was very optimistic about the 2011 team. I thought they would go wire to wire. Even after their bad start, they looked like the class of baseball, but there were blaring distress signals as the end of August approached. It was ugly and painful.

[sk7326]

There are several approaches that can be taken. Is it your position that the plan this off season was a sound one?

 

I did not love every second of it, but largely yes ...

 

1. There is little evidence that the pitchers acquired were going to be 2014 Kershaw. There is even less evidence that they were going to be terrible.

2. There were only a couple of pitchers in the FA class who were going to move the needle and one of them was a guy we let go. (I did not love this)

3. The failures in 2014 were offensive - not exclusively of course but if you sliced the blame pie, the largest slice by far was for the lineup - they proactively addressed this. (and to be fair, those actions have largely been good so far)

4. The trade market was not going to open up in the offseason - nobody is bleeding money, and because of the 2nd wild card spot - almost every team can/has to sell postseason possibility to its fans and benefactors. The trade the Sox want was going to have to wait - the key is to be around long enough to do so.

 

Frankly coming into this season the expectation (not hope) was that the rotation could consistently spit out starts like Buchholz had yesterday. Not amazing, not horrendous - but don't screw up the offense's work and hand it over to the bullpen.

 

The problem has been the former has not been good enough to withstand crappy starts nor good enough to carry "okay" ones. That has to change - and given some of the BABIPs, that is a strong bet. And, as shaky as this stretch has been ... the larger thesis of "hanging in" still holds.

[a700hitter]

I did not love every second of it, but largely yes ...

 

1. There is little evidence that the pitchers acquired were going to be 2014 Kershaw. There is even less evidence that they were going to be terrible.

2. There were only a couple of pitchers in the FA class who were going to move the needle and one of them was a guy we let go. (I did not love this)

3. The failures in 2014 were offensive - not exclusively of course but if you sliced the blame pie, the largest slice by far was for the lineup - they proactively addressed this. (and to be fair, those actions have largely been good so far)

4. The trade market was not going to open up in the offseason - nobody is bleeding money, and because of the 2nd wild card spot - almost every team can/has to sell postseason possibility to its fans and benefactors. The trade the Sox want was going to have to wait - the key is to be around long enough to do so.

 

Frankly coming into this season the expectation (not hope) was that the rotation could consistently spit out starts like Buchholz had yesterday. Not amazing, not horrendous - but don't screw up the offense's work and hand it over to the bullpen.

 

The problem has been the former has not been good enough to withstand crappy starts nor good enough to carry "okay" ones. That has to change - and given some of the BABIPs, that is a strong bet. And, as shaky as this stretch has been ... the larger thesis of "hanging in" still holds.

The West coast trip will be telling. They need Napoli to continue what he started yesterday. If they can come back from the West Coast and Central road trip not down 2 or 3 more games, they might be able to stay competitive. My opinion is that the starting pitching is not good enough to keep this team competitive through August without changes. Obviously, team management must be very concerned if they fired the pitching coach, so I don't think my concerns have lacked validity. We can disagree on the issue. Time will tell the story.