Sandoval or Headley?

[SoxFanForsyth]

Zimmerman would be great but staying with the Nationals Doug Fister wouldn't be a bad #3.

 

Yeah - I was thinking, send over Brian Johnson, Devin Marrero (stock skyrocketed from AFL), and Will Middlebrooks for Zimmermann (settle for Fister, if you can't get Zimmermann).

 

Go sign Masterson to 1/7mm and stick him in the 5 slot. Lester Fister Buch Kelly Masterson is a pretty talented group.

[User Name]

Gamethreads, but that's besides the point. They (pot, meet kettle) won't be content and will whine either way.

 

This refers to your post before the last one.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Gamethreads, but that's besides the point. They (pot, meet kettle) won't be content either way.

 

This refers to your post before the last one.

 

Well yeah. I can be a whiny bitch in the game threads when the Sox are sucking, I'll give you that. But I was talking about whining about roster moves.

[a700hitter]

How will it be whiny again? How have I ever been whiny on here?

Hey, at times you think I am criticizing the FO when I am not, and I, at times think your defense of roster moves sounds whiny. It is a shortcoming of internet communication.

[Dojji]

Yeah - I was thinking, send over Brian Johnson, Devin Marrero (stock skyrocketed from AFL), and Will Middlebrooks for Zimmermann (settle for Fister, if you can't get Zimmermann).

 

Go sign Masterson to 1/7mm and stick him in the 5 slot. Lester Fister Buch Kelly Masterson is a pretty talented group.

 

That's not even close to a realistic price for Ryan Zimmermann

[Palodios]

That's not even close to a realistic price for Ryan Zimmermann

 

Two very solid prospects who look to be major league regulars, and a high ceiling/low floor type. Seems reasonable for 1 year of an above average pitcher.

[SoxFanForsyth]

That's not even close to a realistic price for Ryan Zimmermann

 

But Allen Craig and Joe Kelly are realistic for Lackey?

 

Drew Smyly and Nick Franklin are realistic for Price?

 

You've got a guy in Zimmermann who is making $16mm next year, you've got him for 1 season, and then he hits FA. He had a very solid year in 2014 but other than that, he's been a 3.2-3.6 fWAR pitcher over the 3 seasons prior to that. He's thrown 200 IP exactly 1 time in his career (199.2 last year, so very close to 200, but you want to see him in the 210 + range if you think my proposal is "not even close").

 

Lackey, in 2013, is extremely close to what Zimmermann has been his whole career (3.2 fWAR pitcher).

 

Zimmermann has great upside, but you don't buy him based on 2014. You buy him based on the past 3-4 years, which means he's around a 4-4.1 fWAR pitcher.

 

At $7mm per win, that's around a $28-30mm value. Take out his $16mm and you're getting $12-14mm in excess value that you need to trade for him. Per FG, Henry Owens is a 20-30mm excess value pitcher over his next 6 seasons.

 

Margot and Devers, given their relative risk, are both in the 10-20mm range of excess value, so a deal of Zimmermann for one of those two would be about right.

 

Brian Johnson (again, based on FG) is about a 5-15mm guy, Marrero probably an 8-10, and Middlebrooks probably a 2-4mm. So you're getting around $15mm in excess value with those 3 players, at the minimum, for $12-14mm in excess value for Zimmermann.

 

So please, explain how this isn't close.

[Palodios]

He's thrown 200 IP exactly 1 time in his career

 

You're manipulating stats here bud. Zimmerman has thrown 195, 213 and 199 innings the last three years. He started 32 games all of those years. I don't know about you, but I would be perfectly fine with those numbers on this team.

[SoxFanForsyth]

You're manipulating stats here bud. Zimmerman has thrown 195, 213 and 199 innings the last three years. He started 32 games all of those years. I don't know about you, but I would be perfectly fine with those numbers on this team.

 

I would love it. But I'm not giving up elite talent for a guy who isn't going to give me 220 IP.

[Bellhorn04]

I would love it. But I'm not giving up elite talent for a guy who isn't going to give me 220 IP.

 

You might be a little too demanding. Only 8 pitchers in all MLB reached 220 IP this year.

[SoxFanForsyth]

You might be a little too demanding. Only 8 pitchers in all MLB reached 220 IP this year.

 

That's about the same amount of pitchers that I would give up 6 years of service from an elite prospect for 1 year of that pitcher, too

[Spudboy]

Why would a team that views itself on the cusp of a World Series birth want to trade one of it's key starting pitchers now?

[jd98]

I think everybody missed the joke.

 

That's not even close to a realistic price for Ryan Zimmermann

[SoxFanForsyth]

Why would a team that views itself on the cusp of a World Series birth want to trade one of it's key starting pitchers now?

 

I believe they are planning on going after Scherzer if the reports are correct

[seabeachfred]

Don't go whining if the second pitcher acquired is Ervin Santana or worse. Don't cry about the high price of pitching if they sign this fat bastard to play 3B.

 

SFF will know better than to whine if what you say goes down. There are a number of us here who will be there to remind him very firmly if he does, but I have to hand it SFF. He has a strong point of view and is always on an upbeat course. He hasn't become somewhat jaded like I have.

[seabeachfred]

You won't bitch. You'll just defend it.

 

Edit: I'll be bitching about it. You will attempt a whiny defense.

 

I think you may have gotten SFF mixed up with the disappearing phantom from 2012 and this season. Besides, if he tries such a defense he will catch hell from a lot of us.

[SoxFanForsyth]

SFF will know better than to whine if what you say goes down. There are a number of us here who will be there to remind him very firmly if he does, but I have to hand it SFF. He has a strong point of view and is always on an upbeat course. He hasn't become somewhat jaded like I have.

 

someone has to keep this site balanced!

[Spudboy]

someone has to keep this site balanced!

 

lol

 

Yeah. Between your rose colored glasses and Fred's doom and gloom it's balanced! J/K.

 

Really, the off season has not started for the Sox. Until the Lester situation is resolved one way or another, I doubt that the Sox make a major move especially for pitching.

 

The Sox need to know how to build the rotation before they make any commitments of assets like top prospects for pitching. Getting Lester would be a nice first move. But if that does not happen then they must make a big trade move since there really are not any top of rotation type starters in free agency worth going for other than Sherzer and that would make no sense to do if the Sox are true to their policy.

 

I am getting kind of anxious about it. They have a last place rotation as it stands even if all the under performing regulars return to form offensively. Stocking up on mid-tier starting pitching probably won't get the job done.

 

If two good front end starters are acquired, this team will be competitive even without signing Sandoval or another 3rd baseman.

[seabeachfred]

We can disagree SFF and still get along. I really to wish that the way you have outlined is the way things will turn out save for Sandoval. I don't want to dump a boatload of money on him when we need two top notch pitchers and am convinced that we will not spend big on three players. Therefore, that money must be spent on two pitchers not named Masterson, Hummel, Santana or any of that ilk. LESTER, SCHERZER, CUETO, HAMELS AND POSSIBLY SHIELDS.

[seabeachfred]

lol

 

Yeah. Between your rose colored glasses and Fred's doom and gloom it's balanced! J/K.

 

Really, the off season has not started for the Sox. Until the Lester situation is resolved one way or another, I doubt that the Sox make a major move especially for pitching.

 

The Sox need to know how to build the rotation before they make any commitments of assets like top prospects for pitching. Getting Lester would be a nice first move. But if that does not happen then they must make a big trade move since there really are not any top of rotation type starters in free agency worth going for other than Sherzer and that would make no sense to do if the Sox are true to their policy.

 

I am getting kind of anxious about it. They have a last place rotation as it stands even if all the under performing regulars return to form offensively. Stocking up on mid-tier starting pitching probably won't get the job done.

 

If two good front end starters are acquired, this team will be competitive even without signing Sandoval or another 3rd baseman.

 

As for your last sentence, RIGHT ON!!!!!!

[Spudboy]

Yes Fred. It does not take a baseball guru to see that. They have to make a move soon or be left out in the cold. All those chips and money under the cap won't mean squat if they don't.

 

As I said early last year, the Boston fans won't tolerate a minor league team thrown out every day. Seeing the kids play was nice only because the Sox were not constructed to win in 2014. But I've seen enough of the Pawtucket all stars now. It's time to get back to winning.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Hypothetical question - would you trade Mookie Betts and Henry Owens/Eddy Rodriguez for Longo?? I'm not sure he is available but maybe he is, and if he is, that would be a pretty solid pick up.

 

He had a really down year last year but, like Pedroia, even in his down years he's a stud because of defense.

 

I really hope Cherrington makes a call on him to at least explore that possibility. The Rays are in full on rebuilding mode with new everything (FO, manager, no Price, no Hellickson), noreason really to keep Longo.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Think we can start to move on from Sandoval.

 

 

If there is little separations, he should go back to SF.

 

Sox need to get moving, though. May need to start talking to Headley and Hanley.

 

Also bid big on Yoan Mancada

[a700hitter]

SFF will know better than to whine if what you say goes down. There are a number of us here who will be there to remind him very firmly if he does, but I have to hand it SFF. He has a strong point of view and is always on an upbeat course. He hasn't become somewhat jaded like I have.

 

I was just poking fun at SFF.

[BSN07]

Hypothetical question - would you trade Mookie Betts and Henry Owens/Eddy Rodriguez for Longo?? I'm not sure he is available but maybe he is, and if he is, that would be a pretty solid pick up.

 

He had a really down year last year but, like Pedroia, even in his down years he's a stud because of defense.

 

I really hope Cherrington makes a call on him to at least explore that possibility. The Rays are in full on rebuilding mode with new everything (FO, manager, no Price, no Hellickson), noreason really to keep Longo.

 

No. Longo has to big of an injury history to warrant Betts imo. If it was Cechinni and Owens + another low level guy it be worth considering. LH bat is gonna have to come from somewhere, so that kind of trade is gonna have some ripple effects on the roster. I'd be surprised if TB traded Longo within the division tho.

[jd98]

Agree with what BSN07 just said, and I'll add that I don't think Tampa is in rebuilding mode. They lost their manager and GM, but it was not by choice, Hellickson sucked the last two years, Price is a big loss but Smyly is pretty damn good and was better than Price after the trade. I'd take any of Smyly/Cobb/Archer/Odirizzi over any current Sox SP, plus they get Matt Moore back at some point. Their pitching is still strong, if they can just improve on their offense, they'll be in good shape.

[seabeachfred]

I was just poking fun at SFF.

 

I know you and SFF get along real well, and it was you if memory served me well that he was a stand up guy. I love his upbeat and charging way of looking at things, but two last place finishes the past three seasons has seemed like a shipwreck even with a WS Title interspersed in between those debacles. I still ask myself how could our team fallen so low and so fast after such an highlight dream season in 2013.

[a700hitter]

Red Sox Offer Sandoval Five Years, $95MM; Padres Offer Expected Today

By Steve Adams [November 21, 2014 at 9:12pm CST]

As of late last night, the Padres, Red Sox and Giants were said to be the three primary suitors for Pablo Sandoval, with the White Sox and Blue Jays reportedly more on the periphery. As the Panda draws nearer to a decision, we’ll run down the latest rumors from today in this post…

 

The Red Sox have made Sandoval a five-year, $95MM offer, per a report from Nick Cafardo of the Boston Globe. The status of other offers is less certain, with Cafardo noting that it is not known whether a sixth year option has been put on the table by another club and saying only that Boston may have the highest offer out.

The Padres will make a formal offer to Sandoval today, reports Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports (via Twitter). A report last night indicated that the Pads, along with the Red Sox and Giants, were all interested in Sandoval at somewhere in the $90-95MM range over five years

For similar money, I would think he stays on the west coast.

[BSN07]

For similar money, I would think he stays on the west coast.

Maybe. There have been reports speculating Pandas relationship with SF has not been good the last couple seasons. Guess we will see here shortly as he looks like he could sign soon.

[jd98]

Every time I get on the internet, I'm hoping to see that Sandoval has signed with the Giants. The contract he'll get is just nuts. He's had 1 year in the last 5, and none in the last 3, that are worth that kind of money. Meanwhile, Headley gives you similar value for half the money, but I haven't even heard that the Sox have any interest in him. For the WAR crowd, Headley has a higher fWAR than Sandoval in 4 of the last 5 years, and has a higher total WAR over the past x years, no matter the value of x. If the Sox are going to spend like the Yankees or Dodgers, then sure what the hell sign Sandoval, otherwise it doesn't make much sense.