Sandoval or Headley?

[GomesBeard]

The more I think about this, the more I lean towards Headley over Sandoval. The Panda is gonna cost $100+ million and 6 years, while you could probably sign Headley for 2 years and $25 million, although you might have to bid against the Yankees for his services. He's a switch hitter, as is Panda, so you get the left-handed bat you want, and he doesn't clog up the position for Garrin Cecchini in a year or so. He's a solid defender, a little better than Sandoval. The real difference between them is post-season, where Sandoval has been a beast and Headley has never played. But is that worth $80 million?

 

What do you think?

[Spudboy]

The real difference is about 50 pounds.

 

I have not seen either player much. Mostly I have seen Sandoval in the playoffs and Headley in some Yankee games.

 

Headley does look like the better defender. Other than that, it's a wash as far as I'm concerned. Headley has had some health issues and Sandoval is a likely candidate for injuries with the excessive weight that he carries. My guess is that his knees or back will start to have problems sometime within a six year deal so I say pass.

 

Also, I believe Cechini and Brentz are not that far from being brought up.

 

A short deal on Headley or moving Graig to 3rd would be my move for now.

 

To hell with 6/100. I'd rather approach the Rangers about Beltre.

[Bellhorn04]

What I'm hearing is that Headley could get something like 4 years for 48 million.

[GomesBeard]

I like Beltre too, and he's certainly maintained his performance.... But I think I'd rather save my trade chips for a starting pitcher (Hamels?) and sign Headley to play third, rather than trade young arms for a 35 year old third baseman.

[GomesBeard]

What I'm hearing is that Headley could get something like 4 years for 48 million.

 

Wow, so that's like what Victorino and Napoli were signed for, from an AAV perspective. Not sure I like that. I'd try and bump up a 2-year deal with maybe an option for a third.

[BSN07]

I think Headley gets at least 3 years from someone. I'd prefer him over Panda based on contract alone. Panda has more upside, but higher risk of the contract becoming a stinker as well.

[Spudboy]

No way should the Sox sign Headley for 4 years. That would be stupid. I had heard that he was looking for at least a 3 year deal.

 

I wonder what it would take to snag Beltre? Would the Rangers even consider a trade? If so, what would they want?

 

I too would prefer to save the trade chips for a deal on a good starting pitcher. Who know what could happen? Maybe both?

[jd98]

Headley x1000, based mostly on contract, and a little on defense. Offense I see them as similar value. Just ignore numbers at Petco, it's the most extreme pitcher's park by far. Defense, Sandoval is good, but Headley is excellent. Might can sign Headley for 3/$39 or probably 4/$48 at most, while Sandoval is looking for 6/$100

[Spudboy]

Headley x1000, based mostly on contract, and a little on defense. Offense I see them as similar value. Just ignore numbers at Petco, it's the most extreme pitcher's park by far. Defense, Sandoval is good, but Headley is excellent. Might can sign Headley for 3/$39 or probably 4/$48 at most, while Sandoval is looking for 6/$100

 

If they decide to sign Headly for more than a Victorino deal ( 3/39 ) then they are wasting money that they will most likely have to eat later on if Cechin is ready for 2016 or if Headly fails or disappoints.

 

The more I think about it, the less I want the Sox to sign an external 3rd baseman. Certainly not for more than I mentioned. It's just not worth it.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Need a LH power hitter. Give me the pop for the extra dollars and years. Panda the most logical fit to me.

[jd98]

If they decide to sign Headly for more than a Victorino deal ( 3/39 ) then they are wasting money that they will most likely have to eat later on if Cechin is ready for 2016 or if Headly fails or disappoints.

 

The more I think about it, the less I want the Sox to sign an external 3rd baseman. Certainly not for more than I mentioned. It's just not worth it.

 

Signing neither is certainly a viable option. However, if they want to go with Cecchini, they should easily be able to trade Headley unless he just completely falls apart or has a major injury. I forgot to mention that Headley's injury history is overblown. He's played the second most games of any 3B in MLB over the last 4 years and last 5 years, and the most over the last 6 years.

[seabeachfred]

The more I think about this, the more I lean towards Headley over Sandoval. The Panda is gonna cost $100+ million and 6 years, while you could probably sign Headley for 2 years and $25 million, although you might have to bid against the Yankees for his services. He's a switch hitter, as is Panda, so you get the left-handed bat you want, and he doesn't clog up the position for Garrin Cecchini in a year or so. He's a solid defender, a little better than Sandoval. The real difference between them is post-season, where Sandoval has been a beast and Headley has never played. But is that worth $80 million?

 

What do you think?

 

What I think Gomes is that the Red Sox front office is in a punch drunk state concerning their young players due to the miserable jobs turned in this past year by that hitting bum Bradley and the constant choking up by Bogaerts. Their pathetic play this year might have thrown Cherington into a panic mode and bodes ill will for us because I really think we have a real good player in Garin Cecchini who can slide into third base late next year or in 2016 at the latest. I don't want this guy blocked or sent somewhere else where he will flourish. That is why I would rather have Headey for two seasons than Sandoval for six----not least of which is the price tag which should be used to get us two good starting pitchers----I said good pitchers, not journeyman or this low risk high reward crap that has never worked for us. I just hope Cherington does no blow this thing and saddle us with mediocre pitchers and a an overpriced free agent whose stats have been actually on the slide for the past four seasons.

[RiceLynnEvans]

I've seen Sandoval a lot over the past few years, and I'm still surprised how highly he's valued. He'll field what's hit at him, but his range is below average. He doesn't really hit for power and he swings at everything. There was a stretch where even the SF fans were calling for his head. Is any team really going to give this guy a six-year deal simply because he gets hot in the postseason and the dolt announcers lick it up? His postseason is going to make him rich.

 

I'm not really a Headley fan either - a guy heading over the hill with back problems. He's an excellent fielder, yes, but he hasn't hit for power (even his power stats are inflated due to a few "fly out" dingers at Yankme Stadium) and, aside from a career year a few years back, his offensive numbers have been mediocre.

 

Bring in Han Ram to slot into third or try to coax Beltre out of the Rangers. Two years of stop-gap before GC is ready, not six years for a guy who's peaked and, to me, doesn't look at all like a future dh (you NEED numbers from that spot that Panda just won't produce, especially in, say, 2018.

[GomesBeard]

I've seen Sandoval a lot over the past few years, and I'm still surprised how highly he's valued. He'll field what's hit at him, but his range is below average. He doesn't really hit for power and he swings at everything. There was a stretch where even the SF fans were calling for his head. Is any team really going to give this guy a six-year deal simply because he gets hot in the postseason and the dolt announcers lick it up? His postseason is going to make him rich.

 

I'm not really a Headley fan either - a guy heading over the hill with back problems. He's an excellent fielder, yes, but he hasn't hit for power (even his power stats are inflated due to a few "fly out" dingers at Yankme Stadium) and, aside from a career year a few years back, his offensive numbers have been mediocre.

 

Bring in Han Ram to slot into third or try to coax Beltre out of the Rangers. Two years of stop-gap before GC is ready, not six years for a guy who's peaked and, to me, doesn't look at all like a future dh (you NEED numbers from that spot that Panda just won't produce, especially in, say, 2018.

 

I think Ramirez is looking for more like Panda number$, not Headley number$. And I think everything you said about Panda, applies to Ramirez as well, except he is injured a lot more and is more of a clubhouse negative. I would totally stay away from him.

[sk7326]

I've seen Sandoval a lot over the past few years, and I'm still surprised how highly he's valued. He'll field what's hit at him, but his range is below average. He doesn't really hit for power and he swings at everything. There was a stretch where even the SF fans were calling for his head. Is any team really going to give this guy a six-year deal simply because he gets hot in the postseason and the dolt announcers lick it up? His postseason is going to make him rich.

 

I'm not really a Headley fan either - a guy heading over the hill with back problems. He's an excellent fielder, yes, but he hasn't hit for power (even his power stats are inflated due to a few "fly out" dingers at Yankme Stadium) and, aside from a career year a few years back, his offensive numbers have been mediocre.

 

Bring in Han Ram to slot into third or try to coax Beltre out of the Rangers. Two years of stop-gap before GC is ready, not six years for a guy who's peaked and, to me, doesn't look at all like a future dh (you NEED numbers from that spot that Panda just won't produce, especially in, say, 2018.

 

He swings at everything yes, but he also makes contact with everything too. That fans fall out of love with their own guys is not an indicator of anything one way or the other. His contract will come from being a good player at a very thin position industrywide and being the youngest of the top free agents to hit the market. I'd look at Beltre first too.

 

Dave Cameron wrote neatly about this ... players (like any other employee) are bargains early and albatrosses late (ALL OF THEM). So the real question is not whether Sandoval will be worth it in 6 years (he won't) - but whether the overall deal produces what the Sawx want to pay for. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/why-six-years-for-pablo-sandoval-isnt-crazy/

[Bellhorn04]

Dave Cameron wrote neatly about this ... players (like any other employee) are bargains early and albatrosses late (ALL OF THEM).

 

With one caveat - some players seem to do extraordinarily well in the walk year!

 

Victor Martinez being a notable fresh example.

[jacksonianmarch]

Headley is the better player. The only issue for him is health. Chase isn't what he was in 2011, but he is a steady mid .700s OPS guy with 15-20HR power who will play superb defense and take his share of walks. He was a steadying presence in NY

[Dojji]

Panda for me. He's not much in the field, but he's got the stick to make up for it, and one hopes that he could settle in as the DH once Ortiz is done rather than the team making him tear himself apart in the field as he rounds 30 and starts declining.

 

Moving to first or DH are both options within the next few years for things we can do with Sandoval after he gets too slow to play third. I hope the team is aggressive with those options rather than keeping him at third base for pride's sake.

[sk7326]

Panda for me. He's not much in the field, but he's got the stick to make up for it, and one hopes that he could settle in as the DH once Ortiz is done rather than the team making him tear himself apart in the field as he rounds 30 and starts declining.

 

Moving to first or DH are both options within the next few years for things we can do with Sandoval after he gets too slow to play third. I hope the team is aggressive with those options rather than keeping him at third base for pride's sake.

 

Metrically Panda was in the top third of 3B defensively - as someone noted earlier, the range is poor - but the glove is not.

[a700hitter]

I have mixed feelings about signing Panda, because I don't want to take away resources that could be used to get pitching, but he would be worlds better than the garbage we rolled out there last season, and we need a third baseman.

[seabeachfred]

I have mixed feelings about signing Panda, because I don't want to take away resources that could be used to get pitching, but he would be worlds better than the garbage we rolled out there last season, and we need a third baseman.

 

Starting pitching Ted!!!!!!! We need to sign two top quality starting pitchers, or trade for them or sign on as a FA and trade for the other but get us two top starters. Only after that is done do we start thinking about third base. I can live with Betts on third for a year and then when Cespedes leaves he goes to left and Cecchini holds down the post for the next decade or more. That to me would be feasible. But two starting pitchers of TOP quality are a must and I don't mean the likes of Masterson, Santana, Hummel or Latos. We need two killers on the mound named either Lester or Scherzer or Hamels or Cueto and anyone who disagrees with that has to be out of his mind. I know you don't and hope others here understand what we really need to contend next season.

[BSN07]

Starting pitching Ted!!!!!!! We need to sign two top quality starting pitchers, or trade for them or sign on as a FA and trade for the other but get us two top starters. Only after that is done do we start thinking about third base. I can live with Betts on third for a year and then when Cespedes leaves he goes to left and Cecchini holds down the post for the next decade or more. That to me would be feasible. But two starting pitchers of TOP quality are a must and I don't mean the likes of Masterson, Santana, Hummel or Latos. We need two killers on the mound named either Lester or Scherzer or Hamels or Cueto and anyone who disagrees with that has to be out of his mind. I know you don't and hope others here understand what we really need to contend next season.

 

Why do you assume the can't work on both at the same time? The two aren't mutually exclusive.

[a700hitter]

Why do you assume the can't work on both at the same time? The two aren't mutually exclusive.

There are limited resources. Paying a lot to Panda limits what they can do on pitching ... no?

[SoxFanForsyth]

There are limited resources. Paying a lot to Panda limits what they can do on pitching ... no?

 

The Sox have plenty of money to acquire both. They've got ~60mm to spend. If they give Lester 23 and Panda 19, that's only 42. And they would still have money to go get another SP (particularly if they go the trade route).

 

The point is, they're going to get 2 SP and a 3B. They have stated that's their priority. I don't know why Fred continues to act like it's a 3B OR a SP.

[a700hitter]

The Sox have plenty of money to acquire both. They've got ~60mm to spend. If they give Lester 23 and Panda 19, that's only 42. And they would still have money to go get another SP (particularly if they go the trade route).

 

The point is, they're going to get 2 SP and a 3B. They have stated that's their priority. I don't know why Fred continues to act like it's a 3B OR a SP.

Don't go whining if the second pitcher acquired is Ervin Santana or worse. Don't cry about the high price of pitching if they sign this fat bastard to play 3B.

[dupree]

^Agreed to all this.

 

With Hamels seeming to but out of the picture since Amaro's asking price is Retarded... who do you think they look to now? Billy Bean is said to not trade Sonny Gray or Jeff Samardzija and the Padres are planning on keeping Cashner & Ross. So I wonder who the Sox will go after?

[SoxFanForsyth]

Don't go whining if the second pitcher acquired is Ervin Santana or worse. Don't cry about the high price of pitching if they sign this fat bastard to play 3B.

 

I wouldn't bitch about that and I don't think they'll get Santana. They'll trade for their other pitcher, so it will be a Zimmermann, Cashner, or Samardzija type.

[a700hitter]

I wouldn't bitch about that and I don't think they'll get Santana. They'll trade for their other pitcher, so it will be a Zimmermann, Cashner, or Samardzija type.

You won't bitch. You'll just defend it.

 

Edit: I'll be bitching about it. You will attempt a whiny defense.

[dupree]

I wouldn't bitch about that and I don't think they'll get Santana. They'll trade for their other pitcher, so it will be a Zimmermann, Cashner, or Samardzija type.

Zimmerman would be great but staying with the Nationals Doug Fister wouldn't be a bad #3.

[SoxFanForsyth]

You won't bitch. You'll just defend it.

 

Edit: I'll be bitching about it. You will attempt a whiny defense.

 

How will it be whiny again? How have I ever been whiny on here?