2014 Offseason Thread

[sk7326]

MLBTR is reporting the Braves are shopping Evan Gattis. What do you guys think about possibly trading for him? Unfortunately he is a RHH, but he could split time with Vazquez. He put up 20+ HR seasons in 2013 and 2014. He is at least an interesting option.

 

I can see where you are coming from. But he profiles quite a bit like AJ. Good power, poor on base skills and either below average or worse defensively. Trading for him makes sense but I wouldn't offer a ton. Vasquez I like a lot - with his defense he just has to get to adequate on base skills (and last year's .308 is not that far away). Make some more contact, and that is a good player.

 

I also would be worried - with Cespedes and Castillo already you are casting a couple of guys with dicey on-base skills (and I am assuming Bogaerts makes the sort of strides you expect a 23 year old to make) to begin with, and this team is still trying to win with being tough outs.

[redsoxfan3]

I can see where you are coming from. But he profiles quite a bit like AJ. Good power, poor on base skills and either below average or worse defensively. Trading for him makes sense but I wouldn't offer a ton. Vasquez I like a lot - with his defense he just has to get to adequate on base skills (and last year's .308 is not that far away). Make some more contact, and that is a good player.

 

I also would be worried - with Cespedes and Castillo already you are casting a couple of guys with dicey on-base skills (and I am assuming Bogaerts makes the sort of strides you expect a 23 year old to make) to begin with, and this team is still trying to win with being tough outs.

 

Thanks for the information. I have checked out his stats and read a few reports on him, but that is all I can base my opinion on. He was injured some last year. His career dWAR is below replacement level. His oWAR is above replacement level. My take on him is a guy who can hit for power, below average defensively, and might have some injury concerns. He did have a .317 batting average last year. Do you know if he is a good clubhouse guy? That was a huge negative with A.J.

 

Vasquez is a good defensive catcher, who will get the bulk of the starts. I was thinking that it might not be a bad idea to get a backup who can hit for some power and provide some offense. I guess it depends on how much the Braves are asking for this guy.

[Spudboy]

Sign David Ross for one more year.

 

Simple.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Sign David Ross for one more year.

 

Simple.

 

+1.

 

Unless the Sox are able to make a deal for Samardzija and Jaso, give Ross a deal and call it good. He is at the very worst an excellent instructor for Vaz.

[redsoxfan3]

Sign David Ross for one more year.

 

Simple.

 

I just don't see a lot of value in resigning Ross other than him being a mentor to Vazquez. He had a -0.3 WAR last year. Defense is supposed to be his strong suit, but he had a -0.1 dWAR (the first negative dWAR of his career). He is 37, had a slash line of .184/.260/.368/.629 last year, and you have to be concerned with his injuries. In my mind, he is a last option signing. You know at the minimum he will be able to mentor Vazquez, but other than that, you get a guy who is well below average offensively and just average defensively at this point in his career. I would prefer an upgrade option to backup Vazquez.

[Spudboy]

+1.

 

Unless the Sox are able to make a deal for Samardzija and Jaso, give Ross a deal and call it good. He is at the very worst an excellent instructor for Vaz.

 

I'm not sure about that trade or it's origins but I would not mind seeing Samardzija pitching for the Sox.

 

I don't see the back-up catcher position as a big need for improvement and certainly not an off season priority.

 

Ross loves it in Boston and provides good skills for 30 or so games when Vasquez needs a breather. What do fans see that position as being? He runs into one occasionally and is a solid game caller. Especially when we will most likely have a young staff. And Lester likes him!

[redsoxfan3]

I'm not sure about that trade or it's origins but I would not mind seeing Samardzija pitching for the Sox.

 

I don't see the back-up catcher position as a big need for improvement and certainly not an off season priority.

 

Ross loves it in Boston and provides good skills for 30 or so games when Vasquez needs a breather. What do fans see that position as being? He runs into one occasionally and is a solid game caller. Especially when we will most likely have a young staff. And Lester likes him!

 

I do agree with you about him being able to call a good game. I am not really trying to make it seem like I want the backup catcher position to be a huge offseason priority and let me say that I would be okay with Ross being resigned. I would just prefer an upgrade. I am just saying that if Evan Gattis is being shopped around and the Braves only want a fairly cheap return, who would you rather have as the backup catcher, Ross or Gattis? I would prefer Gattis. I am not expecting BC to go shop around for a backup catcher. I know that SP, 3B, the bullpen, and figuring out the OF situation takes priority over the backup catching position. It just doesn't hurt for BC to do his due diligence on the situation.

[sk7326]

I just don't see a lot of value in resigning Ross other than him being a mentor to Vazquez. He had a -0.3 WAR last year. Defense is supposed to be his strong suit, but he had a -0.1 dWAR (the first negative dWAR of his career). He is 37, had a slash line of .184/.260/.368/.629 last year, and you have to be concerned with his injuries. In my mind, he is a last option signing. You know at the minimum he will be able to mentor Vazquez, but other than that, you get a guy who is well below average offensively and just average defensively at this point in his career. I would prefer an upgrade option to backup Vazquez.

 

What I'd note is that dWAR is poor for catchers - it is one of the places where defensive measurement is very very limited.

[jd98]

Oh well, I guess nobody liked my plan, except maybe BSN07 since it was similar to his. Funny that everybody focused on Howard when he was the least important part of the whole thing. I was leery of Hamels at first, but now I really want him (with Lester too). He's 4th active in ERA+ (min 1000 IP), behind Kershaw, Wainwright, and Felix. He and Lester are also two of the most durable pitchers, both have made 30+ starts each of the last 7 years.

 

Third on my wish list would be no Panda. Don't get me wrong, I'd like him on the team, but his asking price is way too high. Headley's numbers away from Petco aren't much different than Sandoval, plus he is a gold glove caliber defender, and is way cheaper.

 

Back to Howard (I feel like his agent trying to defend him), sure a Howard/Craig platoon could be a disaster, but it also has good upside. If they can just bounce back to 2013 numbers, it's actually an improvement over Napoli. For seabeachfred, Howard the last 3 years (his worst years by far), hit .271/.383/.462 with RISP when his overall numbers were just .233/.309/.412, so he's the anti-Bogaerts in that regard. He's only had 2 bad years (2012, 2014), and both were coming back from a major injury, so maybe he can at least bounce back to 2013 which was decent.

 

Anyway, yeah 1B is a question mark in my scenario, but the key things were adding 2 aces and a second tier SP with good upside, adding a good 3B, losing minimal prospects and no draft picks, and staying under the cap

 

Cheers

Edited November 10, 2014 by jd98

[Palodios]

The Mets just signed Cuddyer, giving up a 15th overall draft pick in the process. Seems like a poor investment, unless they decide to sign other QO type players.

[seabeachfred]

I do agree with you about him being able to call a good game. I am not really trying to make it seem like I want the backup catcher position to be a huge offseason priority and let me say that I would be okay with Ross being resigned. I would just prefer an upgrade. I am just saying that if Evan Gattis is being shopped around and the Braves only want a fairly cheap return, who would you rather have as the backup catcher, Ross or Gattis? I would prefer Gattis. I am not expecting BC to go shop around for a backup catcher. I know that SP, 3B, the bullpen, and figuring out the OF situation takes priority over the backup catching position. It just doesn't hurt for BC to do his due diligence on the situation.

 

BUC is not and should not be one of our main priorities but I had to choose I would take Gattis over Ross......but for different reasons. We all know Vazquez is a terrific defensive catcher, but his hitting is very suspect. Suppose, for instance, he gets off to a horrid start and is joined by two or three others who we're depending on who don't hit either (Bogaerts, Betts, Craig, maybe even Castillo) and we suddenly need hitting? Gattis has good RH power and could give us some firepower where we need it. He is not the defensive catcher Ross is but he is a better defensive catcher than Ross is as a hitter. Just so long as the Braves don't try to act like wise asses and hold us up for him. Then we tell the Bravos to go to hell.

[jd98]

The Mets just signed Cuddyer, giving up a 15th overall draft pick in the process. Seems like a poor investment, unless they decide to sign other QO type players.

 

Wow. I didn't even know he had turned down the QO. He signed for 2 years/$21million total, instead of the 1 year/$15.3m QO. With just a decent season, he'd easily make more money taking the QO, unless he wanted out of Colorado or in NY for some reason.

 

I'm finding all of this offseason stuff more exciting than the last 2-3 months of the regular season was.

[jacksonianmarch]

The Mets obviously think they can contend next yr. They should have the staff to contend, they just need the offense. Not sure if this is the best investment, though. This is like the finishing touch on a title winning team type move, and I don't think the Mets are there.

[SoxFanForsyth]

http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=bostonred-sox&city=boston&i=TWT&id=41068&w=1ekks

 

!!!!!!!!!!!

[SoxFanForsyth]

Oh and Lester pulled his house off the market on 10/22. Yes yes yes!!! Come home, Job. We love you.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Sign lester, sign panda or HanRam, trade for Samardzija or Cashner. Call it an offseason.

[sk7326]

The Mets obviously think they can contend next yr. They should have the staff to contend, they just need the offense. Not sure if this is the best investment, though. This is like the finishing touch on a title winning team type move, and I don't think the Mets are there.

 

Another thing to note is the recent changes from the CBA - when you put caps on the draft bonuses and many of the international signing bonuses - where else is the money going to go? With the infusion of TV cash and the reduction in ways to use the money, I think this will be the new normal (a lot of money chasing a smaller timber of guys).

[a700hitter]

Sign lester, sign panda or HanRam, trade for Samardzija or Cashner. Call it an offseason.

 

I think that would be a very fruitful off season. Supposedly, they have also inquired about Masterson.

[Spudboy]

I think that would be a very fruitful off season. Supposedly, they have also inquired about Masterson.

 

Hahahahahahahha!!!

 

I'm not surprised! I have mentioned this a couple of times.

 

I don't think the Sox will make an offer in the 6-7/150-175 range that is speculated to be the market for Lester. While still with the Sox, I had sugested that 4-5/125-135 would get it done. Now, I say maybe 5/135-145 with an option for a 6th year COULD do it. I hope so!

 

Before I read SFF most recent comment I was thinking that Lester's Newton Highland home had not sold yet. I find it interesting that it has been withdrawn from the market.

 

The Sox brass has egg on their faces with the Oakland trade. Those guys have enormous egos. Reacquiring Lester would be a fantastic PR move and help to save face for the front office. Let alone being a very strong baseball move.

 

Still, the Sox are reluctant to make this type of commitment. Especially to a non-position player.

 

I hope that it gets done. And soon! Then move onto getting a 2 and or 3 starter and a 3rd baseman. Sign Badenhop or other mid reliever and call it a day.

 

One thing has occurred to me. The Sox fans will welcome Lester back with open arms, of course. But with a huge salary, how will expectations change for Lester? If he falters, will the Sox fans boo him? After all, with a big ticket contract, fans expect big performance.

 

We'll see.

[GomesBeard]

I still find it funny that the Sox are keeping up this 'we're going to have discussions with Lester' charade. They are going to make him an offer that will end up being significantly less than he ends up with, the intent being to "demonstrate" their "sincerity" in trying to re-sign him, when they probably could have gotten him for $110 or so in the spring. Now that he has gotten a taste of life outside the Sox organization, I think the home market is gone and he won't leave $25 to $50 million on the table to re-sign. Regardless of whether his house is for sale or not. I will be very surprised if the Sox make a serious effort to re-sign him and shocked if he does re-sign.

[BSN07]

If the Sox get Lester, the Lester for Cepedes trade will go down as one of the biggest fleece jobs in recent memory.

[sk7326]

I think that would be a very fruitful off season. Supposedly, they have also inquired about Masterson.

 

Masterson as anything other than back end filler is a waste. He is another prime conversion candidate, but somebody will pay him to start.

[Bellhorn04]

If the Sox get Lester, the Lester for Cepedes trade will go down as one of the biggest fleece jobs in recent memory.

 

I don't see that. The A's were going for it this year, and they would only have Cespedes one more year.

[sk7326]

Hahahahahahahha!!!

 

I'm not surprised! I have mentioned this a couple of times.

 

I don't think the Sox will make an offer in the 6-7/150-175 range that is speculated to be the market for Lester. While still with the Sox, I had sugested that 4-5/125-135 would get it done. Now, I say maybe 5/135-145 with an option for a 6th year COULD do it. I hope so!

 

Before I read SFF most recent comment I was thinking that Lester's Newton Highland home had not sold yet. I find it interesting that it has been withdrawn from the market.

 

The Sox brass has egg on their faces with the Oakland trade. Those guys have enormous egos. Reacquiring Lester would be a fantastic PR move and help to save face for the front office. Let alone being a very strong baseball move.

 

Still, the Sox are reluctant to make this type of commitment. Especially to a non-position player.

 

I hope that it gets done. And soon! Then move onto getting a 2 and or 3 starter and a 3rd baseman. Sign Badenhop or other mid reliever and call it a day.

 

One thing has occurred to me. The Sox fans will welcome Lester back with open arms, of course. But with a huge salary, how will expectations change for Lester? If he falters, will the Sox fans boo him? After all, with a big ticket contract, fans expect big performance.

 

We'll see.

 

I think the booing would be limited ... there is a ton of good will he has built. Two titles, a no-hitter, classy guy. Lot of big performances. If he falters it becomes a tougher deal, but fans won't boo a guy like him who is still trying and competing. Besides I don't think in the next 5 years he is going to slip to anything worse than a mid-tier starter. It will be a mild overpay, but not for the economic environment.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Hahahahahahahha!!!

 

I'm not surprised! I have mentioned this a couple of times.

 

I don't think the Sox will make an offer in the 6-7/150-175 range that is speculated to be the market for Lester. While still with the Sox, I had sugested that 4-5/125-135 would get it done. Now, I say maybe 5/135-145 with an option for a 6th year COULD do it. I hope so!

 

Before I read SFF most recent comment I was thinking that Lester's Newton Highland home had not sold yet. I find it interesting that it has been withdrawn from the market.

 

The Sox brass has egg on their faces with the Oakland trade. Those guys have enormous egos. Reacquiring Lester would be a fantastic PR move and help to save face for the front office. Let alone being a very strong baseball move.

 

Still, the Sox are reluctant to make this type of commitment. Especially to a non-position player.

 

I hope that it gets done. And soon! Then move onto getting a 2 and or 3 starter and a 3rd baseman. Sign Badenhop or other mid reliever and call it a day.

 

One thing has occurred to me. The Sox fans will welcome Lester back with open arms, of course. But with a huge salary, how will expectations change for Lester? If he falters, will the Sox fans boo him? After all, with a big ticket contract, fans expect big performance.

 

We'll see.

 

I see the offer as 6/138 (23mm AAV) and the deal gets done.

 

I think they land Panda at 5/95, and trade for Samardzija using Marrero as the centerpiece. I saw you and not seen this mentioned - I posted a Gammons article a day or two ago in this thread, it's a great read, highly suggest, he mentions this deal in there.

 

I hope the Sox roll the dice on Brandon Morrow as a reliever and same with Luke Hochevar. Both big time K pitchers that would be excellent additions to the pen.

[Spudboy]

I see the offer as 6/138 (23mm AAV) and the deal gets done.

 

I think they land Panda at 5/95, and trade for Samardzija using Marrero as the centerpiece. I saw you and not seen this mentioned - I posted a Gammons article a day or two ago in this thread, it's a great read, highly suggest, he mentions this deal in there.

 

I hope the Sox roll the dice on Brandon Morrow as a reliever and same with Luke Hochevar. Both big time K pitchers that would be excellent additions to the pen.

 

Thanks for posting that article by Gammons. I read it as soon as you posted it.

 

Your 6/138 sounds very near what I suspect would be a successful bid for Lester. Gomes has a valid point. Lester would have to walk away from about 25 mil. or more. It does not sound likely but if anyone would do it it would be Lester. He loves it here. His family loves it here. He had a very good life going for all concerned while here. Lester seems to be a guy that values that comfort more than the extra money a bloated deal elsewhere would bring. I'm still very skeptical about the Sox getting Lester back regardless of the rumors from un-named sources.

[BSN07]

I don't see that. The A's were going for it this year, and they would only have Cespedes one more year.

 

They crippled an already thin offense this season and now don't have a middle of the order bat or an Ace going into 2015. The Sox would have both and only gave up 11 games of Lester. How would that not be fleecing the A's?

[SoxFanForsyth]

Thanks for posting that article by Gammons. I read it as soon as you posted it.

 

Your 6/138 sounds very near what I suspect would be a successful bid for Lester. Gomes has a valid point. Lester would have to walk away from about 25 mil. or more. It does not sound likely but if anyone would do it it would be Lester. He loves it here. His family loves it here. He had a very good life going for all concerned while here. Lester seems to be a guy that values that comfort more than the extra money a bloated deal elsewhere would bring. I'm still very skeptical about the Sox getting Lester back regardless of the rumors from un-named sources.

 

Yup. Everyone always says 'players never get traded and then sign with the team that traded them' I say look at Cliff Lee. Theyre right. Players generally don't don't do that. But players also don't value comfort over dollars, either, like Lee and Lester.

 

I'm not 'playing this card', if you will, and I don't think that Lester feels that he owes anything to Boston, but the fact that the Sox were the team that helped him through easily the toughest time of his life (battling cancer) certainly plays with his heart strings, as it would for anyone, and as it should. For that, I think he has a special relationship with the Sox that goes beyond dollars and years. Tack on the familiarity and comfort for he and his family, and I think he's the Sox opening day starter.

[Spudboy]

With the news that Headley seeks a 4 year deal I have been thinking more about internal options at third base. I may have my head firmly planted assward but I do have ideas and questions.

 

If the Sox beg off free agents asking for too much at 3rd, is there a viable candidate in house????

 

Why not Craig? He has the build and profile of a corner infielder. He already plays a decent 1st base. Start spring training with him at 3rd and hope that his bat returns to previous form. I am a believer that talented hitters just do not forget how to hit. Case in point, Ortiz about 4-5 years ago. Many said that he was done because he could not hit lefties and was hitting about .230+ at the time. It turned out to be just the accumulation of injuries. Now Ortiz is back to being one of the most respected power hitters in the game.

 

I am not sure what Graig's problems are. He claims his foot was not bothering him this season. Maybe he was just being a Pedroia? Not revealing the extent of the injury and it's impact on his batting. In any case, I suspect that he will return to being a near .300 hitter with some pop. That is exactly what a 3rd baseman should be. He is one option.

 

I think that Brock Holt hit the wall and was also injured in the second half. He is too much of a very good contact hitter to have totally lost it. He may be a very good 3rd baseman. He has the range and arm. He does not have power but his on base skills supplant that. Super sub or not. I bet he could play 3rd all season. His natural position is 2nd base just in case anyone did not know. Oh, he's a leftie bat, too.

 

How about Mookie Betts? Sure, he does not profile as a 3rd baseman. He is much quicker and faster and does not have the build of a power hitter.

Nevertheless, he is an infielder with decent ball skills and range. I know, no one want to mess up his development by moving him to 3rd as the Sox did with XB. But Mookie continued to hit well after being moved to the outfield so I see this as a no risk situation. On the downside, his speed may be wasted at 3rd. Who cares?

 

These three options may not be as flashy as the accusation of the popular Panda but the talent is on board already and the Sox outfield is crowded. I bet the Sox are considering these options.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Spud - I like where your head is at.

 

Allen Craig played 246 G at 3B in the minors so it's not entirely new to him. Though he did post a .927 fielding percentage there, so he would need to start working on his defense now. Love this option. I also agree with you, he is a near lock for a bounce back this year. Offseasons don't get nearly enough credit for players success and when you have your offseason cut down because of a foot injury plus a deep October run (like Craig in 2013), it's not hard to expect some struggles the following year. A full, healthy offseason should get him to be the hitter he was with the Cardinals. His defense, though, is worrisome.

 

Mookie, to me, is your starting RF. I love Victorino, I really do, but to count on him for anything more than 75-85 games is a fools errand. For that reason, I keep Mookie in the outfield. And to be honest, I trade Vic.

 

I like Holt, but not as an everyday player. He may be the best backup super sub in the game. A Ben Zobrist type player that doesn't play everyday. I think that's the position that he thrives.

 

I still really like Panda. Think Fenway would be a great park for him. Sox need that LH stick. And his defense is underrated. We need solid defense at 3B while Bogaerts is still learning at SS, which steers me toward an established 3B over a lottery ticket, even if those lottery tickets could be a great player.