2014 Offseason Thread

[sk7326]

I didn't look at the link. I am testing my memory. Was it Pedro's one-hitter with 17 k's against the Yankees -- probably the most dominating performance that I have seen.

 

maybe

[Orange Juiced]

I have read a couple articles linking the Red Sox to Bryce Harper.

 

That would be an interesting move.

 

Could you link to some?

[SoxFanForsyth]

Could you link to some?

 

http://bosoxinjection.com/2014/10/22/boston-red-sox-trade-target-bryce-harper/

[Spudboy]

Bryce Harper is one dimensional. When he does not hit for power he's just another player.

 

I say pass. Stanton or bust!!!!

[SoxFanForsyth]

Not sure I would give up what it takes to get Harper.

 

Harper is a 4-5 win player. Mookie is 3.5-4.5. Except Mookie has 6 years of control, Harper has 3.

 

I don't know if I would move Mookie for Harper straight up, and the Nats would want Owens and Swihart too

[SoxFanForsyth]

Bryce Harper is one dimensional. When he does not hit for power he's just another player.

 

I say pass. Stanton or bust!!!!

 

We're on the same page!!

[Spudboy]

http://bosoxinjection.com/2014/10/22/boston-red-sox-trade-target-bryce-harper/

 

Glad it's just speculation.

[Spudboy]

We're on the same page!!

 

Good!!! Do you see Harper as a 5 tool player? I don't. He's not Trout level in any case.

[sk7326]

Good!!! Do you see Harper as a 5 tool player? I don't. He's not Trout level in any case.

 

Who is? His peers are mostly stuck in High A/AA. What is funny is how much kinder the evaluation of him would be if he did this in AA.

[Spudboy]

Trout is 5 tool. But he is the exception. A Ken Griffey Jr. type.

[sk7326]

Trout is 5 tool. But he is the exception. A Ken Griffey Jr. type.

 

I doubt the Nats are shopping Harper, although it'd help if they had a manager with a pulse.

[FredLynn]

http://bosoxinjection.com/2014/10/22/boston-red-sox-trade-target-bryce-harper/

 

If we put together a package for Stanton, who would you include? Remember: he is a FA after two more years. How many top prospects would you be willing to give up for two years of Stanton? Might be better to wait until next year when the Marlins lower the price or two years when he becomes a FA and then, if he is still worth it, go after him with $$ and no prospects.

[sk7326]

If we put together a package for Stanton, who would you include? Remember: he is a FA after two more years. How many top prospects would you be willing to give up for two years of Stanton? Might be better to wait until next year when the Marlins lower the price or two years when he becomes a FA and then, if he is still worth it, go after him with $$ and no prospects.

 

Betts and/or Bogaerts would have to be there. The tricky thing - and why the Sox aren't a great match - is that the Marlins have always loved power arms in this context. When you look at the young pitching we have, is there the "stuff" guy to tempt the Marlins. De La Rosa and Owens (although the latter is not the flavor of guy the Marlins have chased) but that's it

[FredLynn]

Betts and/or Bogaerts would have to be there. The tricky thing - and why the Sox aren't a great match - is that the Marlins have always loved power arms in this context. When you look at the young pitching we have, is there the "stuff" guy to tempt the Marlins. De La Rosa and Owens (although the latter is not the flavor of guy the Marlins have chased) but that's it

 

Seriously? You would give up Betts or Bogaerts for two years of Stanton? That's a pretty heavy price to pay for a two year rental.

[a700hitter]

Seriously? You would give up Betts or Bogaerts for two years of Stanton? That's a pretty heavy price to pay for a two year rental.

The guy is a beast. Neither of the other 2 guys will amount to half of what Stanton is already. Player control is very desireable if the guy is a star, but otherwise does it really matter. If it takes XB 2 more seasons to get on his feet and really produce, what would that give us... one more year of control before arbitration? Yes, I would give that up in a heart eat for 2 monster years from Stanton. Our only concern if we got Stanton would be rebuilding the Green Monster which he would likely knock down.

[sk7326]

Seriously? You would give up Betts or Bogaerts for two years of Stanton? That's a pretty heavy price to pay for a two year rental.

 

You asked the wrong question. I'd have issues letting go of them both, but it is something which has to be considered. In any case I think Stanton and the Dodgers are a better match. But guys like him don't show up all the time. What I referred to was the package that would win (the least it would take). I think it's a moot point though.

Edited October 28, 2014 by sk7326

[Palodios]

The guy is a beast. Neither of the other 2 guys will amount to half of what Stanton is already.

 

I would be very concerned about Stanton's concussion. We have been seeing more and more high profile concussions that have been destroying careers of elite players. Morneau had a resurgence this year, but he had several down years after his issues.

 

If Stanton had finished out the year, I'd be more willing to buy on him. I just don't want to deal for another "sure thing" slugger whose injury costs him significant production like we saw with Agon's power numbers from the shoulder issues.

[sk7326]

I would be very concerned about Stanton's concussion. We have been seeing more and more high profile concussions that have been destroying careers of elite players. Morneau had a resurgence this year, but he had several down years after his issues.

 

If Stanton had finished out the year, I'd be more willing to buy on him. I just don't want to deal for another "sure thing" slugger whose injury costs him significant production like we saw with Agon's power numbers from the shoulder issues.

 

Concussion + missed time with back problems. Personally I wouldn't bet the farm. Betts has real star potential, and the Bogaerts story is very much unwritten. I do think there are some questions about how this administration is handling development, especially with the big league ready guys - but that has nothing to do with the valuation.

[seabeachfred]

The guy is a beast. Neither of the other 2 guys will amount to half of what Stanton is already. Player control is very desireable if the guy is a star, but otherwise does it really matter. If it takes XB 2 more seasons to get on his feet and really produce, what would that give us... one more year of control before arbitration? Yes, I would give that up in a heart eat for 2 monster years from Stanton. Our only concern if we got Stanton would be rebuilding the Green Monster which he would likely knock down.

 

To get Stanton we would have to deal BOTH Bogaerts and Betts to get a heavyweight slugger like that----and that is not going to happen in my opinion. If I'm wrong and we can swing a trade for him, Prune Face is going to have to get a brain for a change and open his damn vault and be sure to sign him to a humongous extension. Two years of Stanton would be ok for either one of them but not two. OTOH, sign him to a large extension and I would make the trade in a flash. Tough for me because I love Mookie Betts. Again OTOH, I still have deep doubts about Bogaerts. He may need two more seasons to get untracked but what does that get us? Stanton could be the offensive leader to a team that could challenge for a WS Title.

[alphilip77]

Red Sox supposedly "prioritizing" Headley and Sandoval this offseason, as well as considering Aramis Ramirez if the Brewers let him go according to CBS Sports. No way do I want Sandoval. Give me Headley over him any day of the week.

[BSN07]

Sandoval has the higher upside. He seems to show up when the bright lights are on so to speak. If they can get some kind of language about his weight in the contract I think it be a good sign. Headley would be a solid pick up as well. Ramirez makes no sense imo.

 

I would not trade Betts or Bogaerts for a short term rental that's about to get 250m+ contract. Stanton is a great talent but there are some ? that come with him. The concussion is worrisome and he's missed his fair share of time over his 5 year career. Without the pitch to the face he was on track for his 2nd 150+ games played season. 2/5 years. The other 3 are 100, 116,and 123. That's a 126 gp a season average.

 

Just for reference, JD Drew averaged 121 gp over his 5 years in Boston. Including his 81 game season his last year. He averaged 131 the first 4 years. Just some food for thought for the camp that would sell it all for Stanton.

[Spudboy]

I like watching Sandoval play. But I'm not sold on the practicality of signing him to what is projected to be the cost, 5/90-100.

 

I can't see the Sox making that kind of commitment to a player of his quality and performance. The Sox need to decide whether they will try to stabilize 3rd base for the long term or if they will just go after a place holder now. Cechini is at least a full season of AAA away from taking the spot. And that assumes that he demonstrates good hitting skills in Pawtucket.

 

I see Sandoval resigning with SF for a shorter, cheaper deal because he likes it there. Headley? How is his health?

 

The Sox have several significant messes to address. I'm not confident that signing Sandoval to a long term deal would clear up one mess. It seems likely to me that signing a player of his size long term is asking for problems down the road.

 

Pass.

 

I am very much looking forward to the Series ending so the off season maneuvering can begin. I am very interested to see what the Sox do this off season. I suspect that whatever they do will not be enough to assure a playoff birth in 2015. Maybe they will surprise me as in 2013.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Agree, Spud!! Can't wait for the offseason!

 

I actually like the idea of Panda, mainly because offense deteriorates slower than defense, Nap has 1 year left on his deal, and Ortiz isn't going to be around forever, so I see Sandoval as a 1B/3B/DH over his deal and that will allow the Sox some versatility going forward when replacements are needed

[Palodios]

I'd rather A-ram at 1/10, Headley at 3/40 than Panda at 5/80. If anything happens to Headley, atleast his glove is awesome.

[seabeachfred]

I like watching Sandoval play. But I'm not sold on the practicality of signing him to what is projected to be the cost, 5/90-100.

 

I can't see the Sox making that kind of commitment to a player of his quality and performance. The Sox need to decide whether they will try to stabilize 3rd base for the long term or if they will just go after a place holder now. Cechini is at least a full season of AAA away from taking the spot. And that assumes that he demonstrates good hitting skills in Pawtucket.

 

I see Sandoval resigning with SF for a shorter, cheaper deal because he likes it there. Headley? How is his health?

 

The Sox have several significant messes to address. I'm not confident that signing Sandoval to a long term deal would clear up one mess. It seems likely to me that signing a player of his size long term is asking for problems down the road.

 

Pass.

 

I am very much looking forward to the Series ending so the off season maneuvering can begin. I am very interested to see what the Sox do this off season. I suspect that whatever they do will not be enough to assure a playoff birth in 2015. Maybe they will surprise me as in 2013.

 

The only way we have any chance to climb back into contention next season is if we get two stalwart starting pitchers and two decent relievers including a solid closer if we are going to let Koji walk. Our rotation is crappy and we cannot count on Buchholz taking charge as the ace---no way in hell. He cannot be depended on what with his injury history and Kelly is at best a solid No. 3. I think DeLaRosa finally proved what I said about him earlier, that he is inconsistent and has a strong tendency to get his rear end handed to him. Webster came on strong at the end but that does not make up for his shoddy and ineffective pitching for most of the season he was with us. No, instead of signing a third baseman for four or five years from upwards of $75 to $100 million let's put that money into pitching and use the extra money we save from contracts ending or not being extended to get us those two solid starting pitchers we need. The front office brought all this on with their cheap and parsimonious ways with Lester and Lackey and they owe it to the fans to rectify their miserable mistakes. That is the way to do it.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I'd rather A-ram at 1/10, Headley at 3/40 than Panda at 5/80. If anything happens to Headley, atleast his glove is awesome.

 

Headley is precisely why I said that offense deteriorates slower than defense.

 

If anything happens to Panda, he has the bat to play 3B, 1B, or DH. If anything happens to Headley, you're stuck with a 3B with no stick, and his defense will begin to decline.

 

Aramis would be ok, but he would just be a stop gap to nobody. Who are you going to sign after 2015? Sandoval is the best 3B FA available for a while. And the market is super thin for 3B.

 

Sandoval is going to get more like 5/95, and it will probably be from the Red Sox, and that's a good thing.

[SoxFanForsyth]

The only way we have any chance to climb back into contention next season is if we get two stalwart starting pitchers and two decent relievers including a solid closer if we are going to let Koji walk. Our rotation is crappy and we cannot count on Buchholz taking charge as the ace---no way in hell. He cannot be depended on what with his injury history and Kelly is at best a solid No. 3. I think DeLaRosa finally proved what I said about him earlier, that he is inconsistent and has a strong tendency to get his rear end handed to him. Webster came on strong at the end but that does not make up for his shoddy and ineffective pitching for most of the season he was with us. No, instead of signing a third baseman for four or five years from upwards of $75 to $100 million let's put that money into pitching and use the extra money we save from contracts ending or not being extended to get us those two solid starting pitchers we need. The front office brought all this on with their cheap and parsimonious ways with Lester and Lackey and they owe it to the fans to rectify their miserable mistakes. That is the way to do it.

 

You do realize that the Red Sox have about $70mm to spend, correct? If they spend $20 on Panda, they can still give Lester 6/150 ($25mm AAV), 4/80 ($20mm AAV) on Shields, $11mm on Koji, and still have $4mm left over. And that's just pushing them to the Lux Tax threshhold, which they have said is not a hard cap.

 

I'm not saying that this is the way they will spend, I'm just showing you that spending on a 3B doesn't keep them from spending huge on two FA SP.

 

Personally I think they'll sign Lester and trade for Cueto, perhaps even giving up Owens or Eduardo Rodriguez, though that would make me sick.

[a700hitter]

Sandoval has the higher upside. He seems to show up when the bright lights are on so to speak. If they can get some kind of language about his weight in the contract I think it be a good sign. Headley would be a solid pick up as well. Ramirez makes no sense imo.

 

I would not trade Betts or Bogaerts for a short term rental that's about to get 250m+ contract. Stanton is a great talent but there are some ? that come with him. The concussion is worrisome and he's missed his fair share of time over his 5 year career. Without the pitch to the face he was on track for his 2nd 150+ games played season. 2/5 years. The other 3 are 100, 116,and 123. That's a 126 gp a season average.

 

Just for reference, JD Drew averaged 121 gp over his 5 years in Boston. Including his 81 game season his last year. He averaged 131 the first 4 years. Just some food for thought for the camp that would sell it all for Stanton.

 

I am not getting the relevance of the JD Drew comparison.

 

Stanton is an absolute beast. The Marlins have produced the next generation's MIggy Cabrera. We have use up one of XBs cost control years and it was worth the minimum wage that he received. How many more years of cost control of XB would we get before he is arbitration eligible. I am not expecting a silver slugger from him in 2015. He is still developing.

[sk7326]

You do realize that the Red Sox have about $70mm to spend, correct? If they spend $20 on Panda, they can still give Lester 6/150 ($25mm AAV), 4/80 ($20mm AAV) on Shields, $11mm on Koji, and still have $4mm left over. And that's just pushing them to the Lux Tax threshhold, which they have said is not a hard cap.

 

I'm not saying that this is the way they will spend, I'm just showing you that spending on a 3B doesn't keep them from spending huge on two FA SP.

 

Personally I think they'll sign Lester and trade for Cueto, perhaps even giving up Owens or Eduardo Rodriguez, though that would make me sick.

 

I think Latos is also possible - might be easier to land than Cueto and still quite good. Also I could see some late rotation bulk - nothing special, but somebody who can soak up 180-200 innings competitively, which a team needs to survive the marathon. Even if Owens were ready next year - he probably won't be a good bet to provide a ton of bulk.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I think Latos is also possible - might be easier to land than Cueto and still quite good. Also I could see some late rotation bulk - nothing special, but somebody who can soak up 180-200 innings competitively, which a team needs to survive the marathon. Even if Owens were ready next year - he probably won't be a good bet to provide a ton of bulk.

 

Latos used to be good but he isn't anymore.

 

He was hurt last year and lost 2 mph off his fastball (92.7 to 90.6 avg velo). His K rate dropped from 7.99 to 6.51 per 9. He's a guy who would get eaten alive in the AL East. His stuff doesn't translate well. Count me out on Latos